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The AKG K712 Pro Support and Impressions Thread - Page 181

post #2701 of 3820
For the record, the iPad does not drive the K712 to a satisfying volume. :P
post #2702 of 3820
Quote:
Originally Posted by riverlethe View Post

How do we measure "synergy?"

With those amazing microphones attached to the worlds most advanced computer (Your ears and brain).

One doesn't need to measures scoville units to know tell a jalapeño is spicier than a bell pepper. Nor that those jalapeños don't make good toppings on ice cream (well for most of us at least)
post #2703 of 3820
Quote:
Originally Posted by riverlethe View Post

What is the output impedance of Super 7?

I believe it is 2.5 ohms
post #2704 of 3820
Quote:
Originally Posted by JWahl View Post

With those amazing microphones attached to the worlds most advanced computer (Your ears and brain).

One doesn't need to measures scoville units to know tell a jalapeño is spicier than a bell pepper. Nor that those jalapeños don't make good toppings on ice cream (well for most of us at least)

Yes, but we CAN measure Scoville units. There's nothing mysterious about it. Also, I have some idea what the word "spicy" means.
post #2705 of 3820
Quote:
Originally Posted by JWahl View Post

I believe it is 2.5 ohms

Hmm, source resistance is 2.5 ohms. I don't see anything about the headphone output impedance.
post #2706 of 3820
Quote:
Originally Posted by riverlethe View Post

Yes, but we CAN measure Scoville units. There's nothing mysterious about it. Also, I have some idea what the word "spicy" means.

I understand that of course. My point was that it is irrelevant. Yes there are cases where differences are so minute that they can admittedly fall in the realm psychological differences. But also if differences are stark enough. They don't require measuring to confirm.

I also don't have anything against purely objective measurements. I just think that there are likely aspects of audio that we are not properly measuring yet. And also focusing too much on areas that are less relevant. Like thd, most people cant perceive below 1 percent. Not that we lack the scientific knowledge to know the proper thing to measure. but rather it hasn't really been an area important enough to the rest of the world to dump the required level of research funding into.

There has to be some link we are missing when it comes to the metrics we use.
Quote:
Originally Posted by riverlethe View Post

Hmm, source resistance is 2.5 ohms. I don't see anything about the headphone output impedance.

It should be 8 ohms then. I know that's what coming off the output transformers.
post #2707 of 3820

People tend to blame headphone amps if they don't like a certain pairing ...

post #2708 of 3820
Quote:
Originally Posted by NA Blur View Post
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by DefQon View Post

Think of the K812 pro as a poor mans alternative HD800. Similar sound and not finicky with amplification and easy to drive with it's low z. The HD800 is another class once you spend the effort to buy a complmenting amp and source. Not cheap. Though the Matrix Mstage is claimed to be really good with the HD800's.

Throwing random tube amplification at the HD800 will also not do any good. Very similar to the Stax O2.

First of all the K812 is the same price as the HD800.  Second both can be driven well with an inexpensive amp like the O2 or O2 and ODAC Combo.  If you are going to spend $1500 on a headphone go with the well known and well tested HD800.

 

Perhaps the K712 Pro can be viewed as a poor man's HD800, but they have quite a few key differences.

 

For that much why not get a flagship ortho like the HE-6 or LCD-2/3. 

post #2709 of 3820
Quote:
Originally Posted by JWahl View Post

I understand that of course. My point was that it is irrelevant. Yes there are cases where differences are so minute that they can admittedly fall in the realm psychological differences. But also if differences are stark enough. They don't require measuring to confirm.

Sure, I don't need measurements or careful AB'ing to tell me that the K712 sounds different from the HD650's. However, the measurements do explain the differences I perceive. On the other hand, I couldn't hear much if any difference between a $300 off the shelf receiver and a $1200 DAC/amp, even though the $1200 unit measured better (unless I plugged in my IEM's and cranked the volume with no sound playing. Then the receiver had an audible hiss...).
post #2710 of 3820
Quote:
Originally Posted by riverlethe View Post

For the record, the iPad does not drive the K712 to a satisfying volume. :P


This was my finding as well and I was surprised at how hard I have to drive the K712 Pro with my home rig.

post #2711 of 3820
Quote:
Originally Posted by DefQon View Post
 

The O2 is not a measurably perfect amp. Anything below 0.05% of THD distortion (a useless benchmarking measurement to begin with) is useless and pointless. Nwavguy was gotten much flak from the engineers out there when he started claiming all the high end stuff is rubbish in measurements, ever wondered why he disappeared out of the blue?

 

Then the second thing is synergy. Anyone who has much experience with speakers/headphones and amp's know what I'm talking about.

 

Which amp is "measurably perfect"?

[does it depend on who's doing the measuring? ;-)]

 

Why is anything below "0.05%" THD useless and pointless?

 

_________________________________

 

I've not wondered much about Nwavguy.

People leave the scene for a wide variety of reasons -

personal, business...

 

But while he was active on the blogs etc., of course he'd receive

flak from the 'establishment' because he was controversial and

spoke his mind bluntly.  Such people always seem to receive flak

(and very often they receive a following as well).

 

What I guess I will remember, at least for a while, is that he

did many audiophiles a huge favor by putting a headphone amp into

the marketplace (with JDS Labs) for only $129.00!

[And a DIY version for even less.]

A product which has received (nearly) universal praise.

 

All of a sudden, most anyone who wanted a quality

'portable' amplifier was able to afford one.  It changed the

landscape of the market for headphone amps in a big way.

 

Perhaps the success of the O2 has been his 'loudest'

statement of all.

post #2712 of 3820
Quote:
Originally Posted by JWahl View Post


I understand that of course. My point was that it is irrelevant. Yes there are cases where differences are so minute that they can admittedly fall in the realm psychological differences. But also if differences are stark enough. They don't require measuring to confirm.

I also don't have anything against purely objective measurements. I just think that there are likely aspects of audio that we are not properly measuring yet. And also focusing too much on areas that are less relevant. Like thd, most people cant perceive below 1 percent. Not that we lack the scientific knowledge to know the proper thing to measure. but rather it hasn't really been an area important enough to the rest of the world to dump the required level of research funding into.

There has to be some link we are missing when it comes to the metrics we use.
It should be 8 ohms then. I know that's what coming off the output transformers.

 

I agree, and I think this applies to the sciences more broadly as well.

Scientists are always looking for new and better ways to measure phenomena.

It's one of the reasons, for instance, that the Large Hadron Collider was built.

post #2713 of 3820
Quote:
Originally Posted by NA Blur View Post


This was my finding as well and I was surprised at how hard I have to drive the K712 Pro with my home rig.

I find 75 (out of 100) uncomfortably loud with most recordings on my NR1403.
post #2714 of 3820
Quote:
Originally Posted by zazex View Post

I agree, and I think this applies to the sciences more broadly as well.
Scientists are always looking for new and better ways to measure phenomena.
It's one of the reasons, for instance, that the Large Hadron Collider was built.

Sure, the LHC was built to measure phenomena far outside the realm of human perception...
post #2715 of 3820
Quote:
Originally Posted by JWahl View Post


Couldn't have said it better myself. I'm not one to say measurements are useless but you have to know what you are measuring and how it actually correlates to what you are hearing. I avoided tube amps for the longest time since I don't consider myself a "lover of distortion". However, now owning my Eddie Current Super 7, I have yet to own or hear at a meet a more realistic sounding amp. Though there are plenty of contenders I have yet to hear. And this is with the K712. I can only imagine once I get to hear the HD800 again with it, which it's said to have excellent synergy with. I think the K812 would do well with it also. Of course I'm sure the bass is a touch plump with my current tubes compared to my old Soloist but the sense of ambience, micro dynamics, textures and timbres are all dramatically better.

My only guess is that maybe well designed tube amps may have some advantage in the time domain or phase. Not sure though. I just highly doubt an 02 is going to even take the k712 to this level of realism. Though I haven't heard one to be fair.

 

I haven't heard the Super 7, but I have heard the Balancing Act with a variety of headphones and I thought it sounded incredibly realistic on the headphones I listened to on it.

 

I have to agree, a good tube amp just has a sense of realism that I haven't heard in solid state amps. An excellent tube amp takes realism to the next step.

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