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The AKG K712 Pro Support and Impressions Thread - Page 180

post #2686 of 3300
Quote:
Originally Posted by DefQon View Post

Think of the K812 pro as a poor mans alternative HD800. Similar sound and not finicky with amplification and easy to drive with it's low z. The HD800 is another class once you spend the effort to buy a complmenting amp and source. Not cheap. Though the Matrix Mstage is claimed to be really good with the HD800's.

Throwing random tube amplification at the HD800 will also not do any good. Very similar to the Stax O2.

First of all the K812 is the same price as the HD800.  Second both can be driven well with an inexpensive amp like the O2 or O2 and ODAC Combo.  If you are going to spend $1500 on a headphone go with the well known and well tested HD800.

 

Perhaps the K712 Pro can be viewed as a poor man's HD800, but they have quite a few key differences.

post #2687 of 3300
Quote:
Originally Posted by NA Blur View Post

First of all the K812 is the same price as the HD800.  Second both can be driven well with an inexpensive amp like the O2 or O2 and ODAC Combo.  If you are going to spend $1500 on a headphone go with the well known and well tested HD800.

Perhaps the K712 Pro can be viewed as a poor man's HD800, but they have quite a few key differences.

You missed out what I was saying. Yes they are the same price but if you're planning to buy and subsequently own the HD800's then prepare to spend big $ (also subjective amongst users) to get them to sound its best. It is one of the few headphones in the market that one needs to pay attention to with amplification.

Your second statment is a bit silly, even a Cmoy can drive the HD800's. Not properly and not to its potential, far cry from it, same goes to the O2 which sounds like absolute crap with the HD800's. Been there done that with the HD800's 3 times, low and high end gear.
post #2688 of 3300

So, uh, not to derail the thread further, but what sort of amp does the HD800 need, and why?  If the HD800 doesn't sound good with a measurably perfect amp like the O2, I think that says more about the HD800...

 

Edit: I lost a lot of respect for Sennheiser when they started making a $2000 headphone amp.


Edited by riverlethe - 3/5/14 at 6:16pm
post #2689 of 3300
Quote:
Originally Posted by riverlethe View Post
 

So, uh, not to derail the thread further, but what sort of amp does the HD800 need, and why?  If the HD800 doesn't sound good with a measurably perfect amp like the O2, I think that says more about the HD800...

 

Edit: I lost a lot of respect for Sennheiser when they started making a $2000 headphone amp.

The O2 is not a measurably perfect amp. Anything below 0.05% of THD distortion (a useless benchmarking measurement to begin with) is useless and pointless. Nwavguy was gotten much flak from the engineers out there when he started claiming all the high end stuff is rubbish in measurements, ever wondered why he disappeared out of the blue?

 

Then the second thing is synergy. Anyone who has much experience with speakers/headphones and amp's know what I'm talking about.

post #2690 of 3300

He "disappeared" because he got banned for pointing out that a Schiit amp was potentially damaging drivers.

post #2691 of 3300

How do we measure "synergy?"

post #2692 of 3300
Quote:
Originally Posted by riverlethe View Post
 

How do we measure "synergy?"


I don't think you can. It's just something you know when you hear it.

post #2693 of 3300
Okay, how do we define it and establish its existence?
post #2694 of 3300
Quote:
Originally Posted by riverlethe View Post

Okay, how do we define it and establish its existence?


To be honest I'm not sure. You can't necessarily look at the specifications of the headphone, amp, dac, etc. and necessarily decide if it's going to have good synergy or not. The problem with audio is that it's highly subjective and not everything can be properly measured. The best way to test for synergy is to simply listen to a headphone on multiple systems.


Edited by kman1211 - 3/5/14 at 10:14pm
post #2695 of 3300
Volume-matched, and if necessary, blindfolded... :P
post #2696 of 3300
Quote:
Originally Posted by riverlethe View Post
 

He "disappeared" because he got banned for pointing out that a Schiit amp was potentially damaging drivers.

No that was before, check his blog and look at the time-stamps of the last update made almost 2 years ago.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by riverlethe View Post

Okay, how do we define it and establish its existence?

You can't it's the same as soundstaging and imaging. Not measurable but it's there when you do crucial equipment swapping comparisons.

post #2697 of 3300
There's more to life than audio equipment... as bad as it may sound, the guy could have died in a car accident, had a drug overdose, been murdered, etc. Implying that him being gone from this pretentious hi-fi scene for years because he was getting 'flamed' by engineers is just plain stupid, short sighted, and arrogant.

Sorry, I woke up cranky. I'm sure YOU aren't stupid, and I mean no offense. It does frustrate me that it seems like anyone who dislikes that guy who made the O2 just assumes he ran away with his tail between his legs because of some trash talk he was receiving. I don't think that's the case, as he made the ODAC after lots of negative criticism, and was zealously working on the ODA when he disappeared. Honestly, I think something happened to him.
Edited by campj - 3/6/14 at 5:34am
post #2698 of 3300
Maybe he did a blind test of his expensive DAC/amp design vs an iPhone, realized there was no audible difference and the whole discussion was absurd, danced his way down the street and lived happily ever after. Just a guess...
post #2699 of 3300
LOL!
post #2700 of 3300
Quote:
Originally Posted by DefQon View Post

The O2 is not a measurably perfect amp. Anything below 0.05% of THD distortion (a useless benchmarking measurement to begin with) is useless and pointless. Nwavguy was gotten much flak from the engineers out there when he started claiming all the high end stuff is rubbish in measurements, ever wondered why he disappeared out of the blue?

Then the second thing is synergy. Anyone who has much experience with speakers/headphones and amp's know what I'm talking about.

Couldn't have said it better myself. I'm not one to say measurements are useless but you have to know what you are measuring and how it actually correlates to what you are hearing. I avoided tube amps for the longest time since I don't consider myself a "lover of distortion". However, now owning my Eddie Current Super 7, I have yet to own or hear at a meet a more realistic sounding amp. Though there are plenty of contenders I have yet to hear. And this is with the K712. I can only imagine once I get to hear the HD800 again with it, which it's said to have excellent synergy with. I think the K812 would do well with it also. Of course I'm sure the bass is a touch plump with my current tubes compared to my old Soloist but the sense of ambience, micro dynamics, textures and timbres are all dramatically better.

My only guess is that maybe well designed tube amps may have some advantage in the time domain or phase. Not sure though. I just highly doubt an 02 is going to even take the k712 to this level of realism. Though I haven't heard one to be fair.
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