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The AKG K712 Pro Support and Impressions Thread - Page 97

post #1441 of 3355

I need to listen the HD800 by myself to know if they are worth the $1500... I need to listen the AKG712 to compare it with the Q701 as well. :bigsmile_face: But I enjoyed a lot reading your comparison.

post #1442 of 3355
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ashade View Post
 

I need to listen the HD800 by myself to know if they are worth the $1500... I need to listen the AKG712 to compare it with the Q701 as well. :bigsmile_face: But I enjoyed a lot reading your comparison.

 

I would skip Q701... I've compared HD800 side by side with Q701 and Q701 are lacking in several things:

 

1) They have less subbass and overall slightly lack fullness in comparison to HD800 (less realistic symphonics, bass drum etc.)

 

2) Vocals do have some strange tone and lack a bit of depth... I've definitely heard that 2khz emphasis and it bothered me a lot (Q701 were tonally off)

 

3) The treble of Q701 sounds a little bit plastic, electric guitars do not sound natural as well as symphonic passages...

 

4) Soundstage of Q701 is very nice in width, though they lack especially depth in comparison to HD800... While soundstage of Q701 is rather left - center - right with nothing in between, HD800 are more semicircular - so better defined soundstage, more compact.

 

5) Imaging of Q701 is not quite on the level of HD800... I agree they are rather fuzzy.

 

6) Comfort is nice but definitely not on the level of HD800... HD800 beat even DT880 for me, by quite a margin. That said, I find Q701 more compact and better for daily usage in busy environment (like in studio).

 

===============================================

 

On the other hand, I must hear K712 pro as I believe they could possibly correct Q701's biggest flaws and therefore be really balanced and versatile phones. I do not expect them to be directly on the level of HD800 but if they are less tonally off than Q701, I will be very satisfied.

 

Btw, are HD800 worth 1500USD? Definitely not if you dont know exactly why you are paying so much for them... If you want perfection, if are seeking the best imaging, soundstage, comfort, hyperdetail and very neutral FR, then yes. But if you are willing to live with a headphone that do most things right but lack in certain aspect or aspects, then my answer is - definitely do not buy anything more expensive than 500USD. Go and listen to several similarly priced headphones and decide for yourself. I would suggest Q701, K712 Pro, DT880, HD600 and HE-400...

post #1443 of 3355

Thank you for that comparison, I greatly appreciate it. I am still considering upgrading to K712 Pro and Hifiman HE-500. In the mean time, I just found Q701 did everything I needed and got them for $150 that I though was a steal. But of course I consider following the path to better sounding cans, it is only a matter of time and money. :)

post #1444 of 3355
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ashade View Post
 

Thank you for that comparison, I greatly appreciate it. I am still considering upgrading to K712 Pro and Hifiman HE-500. In the mean time, I just found Q701 did everything I needed and got them for $150 that I though was a steal. But of course I consider following the path to better sounding cans, it is only a matter of time and money. :)

 

I was (lets say) in your shoes, two days ago... I am searching for the best mid-priced headphone for my friend.

 

I can honestly tell you that I was pleasantly surprised by HD600/Q701/DT880 trio (do not bother with audio technicas or shures, btw) but each of them have some significant flaws regarding (not only) frequency response that I wont be able to live with any of them (and no, its not about me being adjusted to HD800). They do get surprisingly close to HD800 if you compare them for like 30 minutes only but the more time you spend with, the more you realise that HD800 do have all you want (or at least what I want :-) ) while you need to accept some significant trade offs with the majority of mid-priced cans. So basically if you were able to make one headphone from Q701 and DT880 (combine the best from both worlds), it would be absolutely great enough not to bother with HD800 at 1500USD...

 

I honestly thought that from Q701/HD600/DT880, I MUST be able to choose one that I find good enough overall... But in the end, its extremely hard for me to pick just one. While HD800 do have everything, those 3 unfortunately dont =/

 

Thats why I have very high hopes about K712 pro... Its my last chance to find a really good headphone for my friend.


Edited by emertxe - 9/13/13 at 10:10am
post #1445 of 3355
I'll be looking forward to your review! Although I know at some point I'll end up buying the HD800... I very far point at this moment though.
post #1446 of 3355
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ashade View Post

I'll be looking forward to your review! Although I know at some point I'll end up buying the HD800... I very far point at this moment though.

 

Once I get to listen to K712 Pro, I will for sure post my review here and be as honest as possible... I have no problem saying that K712 Pro are on the level of HD800 if I find it to be that way.

 

Btw, I can honestly tell you that after hearing several mid-priced electrostats, I am really excited about the transparency which stats (and especially SR-202 from the 4 I've heard) offer... This is unheard with dynamic headphones. Unfortunately, this transparency is the only thing I was excited about. Short of SR-009, its going to be difficult to find electrostats with neutral response, quality soundstaging and good comfort with enough deep cups/pads.

post #1447 of 3355
This world is endless...
post #1448 of 3355
Quote:
Originally Posted by emertxe View Post
 

 

I would skip Q701... I've compared HD800 side by side with Q701 and Q701 are lacking in several things:

 

1) They have less subbass and overall slightly lack fullness in comparison to HD800 (less realistic symphonics, bass drum etc.)

 

2) Vocals do have some strange tone and lack a bit of depth... I've definitely heard that 2khz emphasis and it bothered me a lot (Q701 were tonally off)

 

3) The treble of Q701 sounds a little bit plastic, electric guitars do not sound natural as well as symphonic passages...

 

4) Soundstage of Q701 is very nice in width, though they lack especially depth in comparison to HD800... While soundstage of Q701 is rather left - center - right with nothing in between, HD800 are more semicircular - so better defined soundstage, more compact.

 

5) Imaging of Q701 is not quite on the level of HD800... I agree they are rather fuzzy.

 

6) Comfort is nice but definitely not on the level of HD800... HD800 beat even DT880 for me, by quite a margin. That said, I find Q701 more compact and better for daily usage in busy environment (like in studio).

 

===============================================

 

On the other hand, I must hear K712 pro as I believe they could possibly correct Q701's biggest flaws and therefore be really balanced and versatile phones. I do not expect them to be directly on the level of HD800 but if they are less tonally off than Q701, I will be very satisfied.

 

Btw, are HD800 worth 1500USD? Definitely not if you dont know exactly why you are paying so much for them... If you want perfection, if are seeking the best imaging, soundstage, comfort, hyperdetail and very neutral FR, then yes. But if you are willing to live with a headphone that do most things right but lack in certain aspect or aspects, then my answer is - definitely do not buy anything more expensive than 500USD. Go and listen to several similarly priced headphones and decide for yourself. I would suggest Q701, K712 Pro, DT880, HD600 and HE-400...

 

Are you sure you're not reviewing the K701? Everything you mentioned sounds like a K701/2. Q701 fixed all the issues you've pointed out for me (except for the very low bass). The Q701 center image improved for me with a good DAC. It's still better than the K702. To my ears the Q701 has the 2nd best female vocals out of everything I have. Far better than the HD-650 and Annie IMO. They can sound forward or distant depending on the recording. When they sound bad it's usually the recording's fault.

 

Sounds like you would be one who would prefer the Annie/K712 over the Q701...


Edited by tdockweiler - 9/13/13 at 11:39am
post #1449 of 3355

Woo Who whooooo! I got a package at my doorstep today around noon, but I had to leave work and not enough time to open. TONIGHT SHOULD BE FUN!

 

tdock,

I haven't bought a DAC yet (unless you count the Recon3D USB, which I think of more as a surround processor than a quality DAC upgrade), are you still a big fan of the ODAC or has the value of the Modi proven itself? I'm also a big fan of the Q701, tube amp negates the center image "void" well for me.


Edited by Evshrug - 9/13/13 at 11:47am
post #1450 of 3355
Quote:
Originally Posted by tdockweiler View Post
 

 

Are you sure you're not reviewing the K701? Everything you mentioned sounds like a K701/2. Q701 fixed all the issues you've pointed out for me (except for the very low bass). The Q701 center image improved for me with a good DAC. It's still better than the K702. To my ears the Q701 has the 2nd best female vocals out of everything I have. Far better than the HD-650 and Annie IMO. They can sound forward or distant depending on the recording. When they sound bad it's usually the recording's fault.

 

Sounds like you would be one who would prefer the Annie/K712 over the Q701...

 

Ive compared: HD598, HD600, HD650, M50, AD700, AD900, AD1000, 1440, 1840, DT880 and Q701 :-) 3 hours of time, the same audio chain (StageDAC - Concerto).

 

HD650 were tragic... The best were HD600/Q701/DT880... AD1000 and 1840 were on the same level as well (but for me worse as they significantly lacked deep bass which is a big issue with a lot of music if you care about the right tonality). AD1000 and 1840 also cost significantly more (at least here) so I wouldnt bother.

 

I quite dont understand how anyone can compare HD650 and LCD-2... While LCD-2 are very good, HD650 are just extremely slow, veiled and with no soundstage. The only thing that LCD-2 and HD650 have in common is clamp :-) While general sound signature may be similar, LCD-2 are just MUCH MUCH cleaner, faster, everything...

post #1451 of 3355
Quote:
Originally Posted by emertxe View Post
 

 

Ive compared: HD598, HD600, HD650, M50, AD700, AD900, AD1000, 1440, 1840, DT880 and Q701 :-) 3 hours of time, the same audio chain (StageDAC - Concerto).

 

HD650 were tragic... The best were HD600/Q701/DT880... AD1000 and 1840 were on the same level as well (but for me worse as they significantly lacked deep bass which is a big issue with a lot of music if you care about the right tonality). AD1000 and 1840 also cost significantly more (at least here) so I wouldnt bother.

 

I quite dont understand how anyone can compare HD650 and LCD-2... While LCD-2 are very good, HD650 are just extremely slow, veiled and with no soundstage. The only thing that LCD-2 and HD650 have in common is clamp :-) While general sound signature may be similar, LCD-2 are just MUCH MUCH cleaner, faster, everything...

 

I had an HD-650 about 3 years ago that was bloated in the mid-bass and dark. Actually it didn't seem all that dark unless I used it with gaming and then it just was awful. I think I went through 3 different amps and DACs back then just to get my K702 and HD-650 to sound good. I liked it the most on the Micro Amp. It also had some really bad bass bleed which is weird. This pair has none of that.

 

Was the HD-650 an older pair? I bought one last year and it's pretty flat. Some tiny mid-bass emphasis and it's quite warm. Not really dark but close. I actually prefer it to the Annie. The soundstage of it on my Micro Amp and Modi is really impressive. I don't know why the Modi is so good with that thing.

 

DDT-880 was too unforgiving and like putting my music under a microscope. The massive variation in how all my music sounded with that was so weird. I kept the HD-598 and I even once preferred it over the older HD-650s I had. It never got much use when I bought the Q701 though. I think it's warmer than my Q701 though and smoother sounding. Almost too smooth. Hard to believe that I once had the DT-990 and K701 only for like 3 years straight. I didn't even realize the DT-990 was supposed to be V-shaped.

 

HD-600 bores me to death for some reason and not because it's neutral. I don't think it is but close.

 

Sometime you should try the ATH-AD2000. That thing Wowed me but it's pads went flat and the driver pressed against my ear. Kind of reminds me of some weird mix of the HD-598 and K702 maybe. I paid $420 for it and that's basically my limit! It's totally worth $500 though.

 

Oh and one thing i've found out about the HD-650 is that I HATE it on a warm amp/dac. Sounds too congested. I've never tried it on a tube amp though yet.

 

I still need to try the K712, but right now I love the HD-650 and Q701. I had some Annie pads for awhile but always hated the sound.

post #1452 of 3355
Quote:
Originally Posted by tdockweiler View Post
 

 

Was the HD-650 an older pair? I bought one last year and it's pretty flat. Some tiny mid-bass emphasis and it's quite warm. Not really dark but close.

 

 

Did it look like the left one or the right one...

 

 

post #1453 of 3355
Quote:
Originally Posted by chicolom View Post
 

 

 

Did it look like the left one or the right one...

 

 

 

It was a pair available for listen at a headphone shop which is quite new... So I am almost sure it was the new one. Ive had enough time and there was no one but me and the seller at the shop so literally no distraction or noise.

 

Still, HD600 did everything better than HD650... Including that clamp and including soundstage.

 

I could also write down my impressions on all the headphones (especially HD600 vs DT880 vs Q701) if anyone interested... But I guess Battle of the flagship article is a much better source. Btw, Ive had my HD800 with me as well to directly compare, of course...

post #1454 of 3355

All pairs I've ever had were the silver screened version as seen on the right side. I did have a pair back in 2006 I think but I only used it for 15 minutes.

A couple years ago I purchased a new pair from JR for $325 and it sounded pretty good. I was forced to return it due to chipping paint and the replacement was much worse. Not a dramatic difference but I noticed it.

I went from Asgard, E9 to Micro Amp just to get it to sound good! Basically it never changed/improved enough for me to keep it more than a month. I wasn't expecting that from an amp though.

Strangely it sounded better on the Total Airhead than the Asgard and E9 (didn't have the Micro at the time). Maybe it was because the Asgard and E9 were warm (I don't remember if the Asgard is warm!)

 

This latest version doesn't sound like it has recessed upper mids at all and it has a really nice soundstage. One thing i've noticed is that it has slightly more low bass presence than my Q701 and HD-600. I know most people say the 650 and 600 have similar amounts of low bass.

The HD-600 I owned a few months ago had more mid-bass(!). People may think i'm nuts but this HD-650 is more revealing of crap than my Q701. Not sure why or how. It's slightly forgiving of harsh/bright material, but my 598 is a much more forgiving.

 

HD-598 definitely has the bigger soundstage and is not as warm but the imaging on the HD-650 is better. Sometimes on this HD-650 it feels like stuff is going on outside the headphone itself and slightly behind me etc. Haven't heard that regularly since the K501.

 

BTW apparently there are newer versions of the 650 that have slightly different measurements.

 

Sorry..off topic..

 

Also..I almost never care about headphone cables anymore but for the last month i've been using the HD-600 cable on the HD-650. It sounds  better and probably due to lower capacitance than the stock cable. No, that's not the reasons for the differences of course. I even use it over my DHC HD-650 cable!

 

Only time I could regularly hear some slight differences with cables was when I had my HRT MSII :confused_face_2:

With the ODAC and Modi it's too hard.

 

Quote:

Originally Posted by chicolom View Post
 

 

 

Did it look like the left one or the right one...

 

 


Edited by tdockweiler - 9/13/13 at 12:53pm
post #1455 of 3355
Any reason NOT to get a Modi? I don't think I want to make a K712 any warmer than it is, tho I haven't heard it yet.
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