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The AKG K712 Pro Support and Impressions Thread - Page 76

post #1126 of 3764

The K712 arrived safe and sound.  I haven't unboxed it yet.  I'll try give them a listen later today....

post #1127 of 3764
Quote:
Originally Posted by chicolom View Post

The K712 arrived safe and sound.  I haven't unboxed it yet.  I'll try give them a listen later today....

 

popcorn.gif

post #1128 of 3764

What amps would sound good with these K712s?

post #1129 of 3764
Quote:
Originally Posted by mIngs View Post

What amps would sound good with these K712s?

 

bryston bha 1 :)

post #1130 of 3764
Quote:
Originally Posted by mIngs View Post

What amps would sound good with these K712s?


Any amp that works well for the Q701, K702 should be fine for the K712.

You can check this thread:

http://www.head-fi.org/t/598004/amping-for-akg-q701

 

I'm loving the Q701 with the Headroom Micro Amp + Schiit Modi.

So far i've only had the Asgard1, Fiio E9, E17 and Schiit Magni.

 

Matrix M-Stage is also supposed to be a good match.

post #1131 of 3764
Quote:
Originally Posted by tdockweiler View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by jmsaxon69 View Post

So i got my pads for the K702 for my Annies today, put them on listened to about 5 or 6 "go to" tracks, put the memory foams back on listened again then promptly decided to NEVER put the angled pads on again! Wow what a difference.  Imagine the Annies with even LESS warmth and bass impact.  I thought i might hear this "better soundstage and transparency", I did not.  Just sounded cold and sterile and uncomfortable for good measure...

 

Anyone want to buy some barely used K702 pads? Haha!

 

It's definitely there. Q701 is a lot more airy sounding too with the right music (not like the K400/K702). Sounds like you didn't listen to them long enough or are too used to the Anniversary sound (which IMO is more colored, not really any smoother..maybe with some tracks). The Q701 (which yours would be with K702 pads) is nowhere near cold and sterile. That's more like the DT-880 or K701 IMO. My HD-650 isn't really all that much warmer than the Q701.

 

Well, can't say it enough..you either like the Anniversary sound or the Q701 sound. I'll take the Q701 sound any day, but just due to music and sound preferences.

 

Q701 pads also have more forward upper mids too IMO. Female vocals also seem to sound better on the Q701 by far. Maybe nobody cares about that..I do!

 

Oh and are you sure you had the angled (large) side facing BACK? biggrin.gif

 

I agree with this. I got a Q701 to borrow for a few weeks and I was pretty surprised at the differences with the K702.65 Anniversary. The Q701 comes in a good step above the K702.65 Anniversary in terms of detail retrieval and soundstage. Not to mention the pretty withdrawn treble range in the K702.65


Edited by elwappo99 - 8/18/13 at 12:56pm
post #1132 of 3764
Quote:
Originally Posted by elwappo99 View Post

I agree with this. I got a Q701 to borrow for a few weeks and I was pretty surprised at the differences with the K702.65 Anniversary. The Q701 comes in a good step above the K702.65 Anniversary in terms of detail retrieval and soundstage. Not to mention the pretty withdrawn treble range in the K702.65

I would definitely take q701 any time too.
post #1133 of 3764

I think the lack of bass make you think the treble is better.  It's a balance issue, also less bass makes things sound farther away, less intimate.  Just my opinion of course, but people mistake certain qualities for changes in tonal BALANCE all the time.  "Oh that has great highs" same driver with less bass from the pad seal....

post #1134 of 3764
Quote:
Originally Posted by elwappo99 View Post

I agree with this. I got a Q701 to borrow for a few weeks and I was pretty surprised at the differences with the K702.65 Anniversary. The Q701 comes in a good step above the K702.65 Anniversary in terms of detail retrieval and soundstage. Not to mention the pretty withdrawn treble range in the K702.65

 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by jmsaxon69 View Post

I think the lack of bass make you think the treble is better.  It's a balance issue, also less bass makes things sound farther away, less intimate.  Just my opinion of course, but people mistake certain qualities for changes in tonal BALANCE all the time.  "Oh that has great highs" same driver with less bass from the pad seal....

 

Yes. I was discussing the presentation of the sound. The increased bass in the K702.65 masks the treble quite noticeably. I don't really know if I'd call the K702.65 'intimate' as much as compressed in comparison. 

 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by muxamed View Post

I would definitely take q701 any time too.

 

I knew when I heard the K702.65 that there were some differences based on memory from the Q701, but I thought the changes were a bit larger than my memory had server. Definitely would also pick the Q701 for just about everything. Even for gaming where the bass boost is a little more fun, the Q701's positional cues are much more precise. 

 

 

This may all be irrelevant anyway until we get that update on the K702.65 vs K712 comparison wink.gif

post #1135 of 3764
Quote:
Originally Posted by jmsaxon69 View Post

I think the lack of bass make you think the treble is better.  It's a balance issue, also less bass makes things sound farther away, less intimate.  Just my opinion of course, but people mistake certain qualities for changes in tonal BALANCE all the time.  "Oh that has great highs" same driver with less bass from the pad seal....

 

Well, I think we all know the changes in the sound signature are coming from pads and not from anything else. Just depends on what sounds good to you and what you prefer.

I prefer the extra treble presence of the Q701 and don't mind giving up a little bit of extra warmth and mid-bass. I'd rather keep what little airiness there is in the Q701 intact. So for me that makes the treble "better".

It sure seems like you can't often get an airy/spacious sound from a warm sounding headphone, but Q701 manages to do that somewhat. I honestly don't want my open headphone to sound like something that's closed.

 

I'm not buying this thing about how less bass makes things sound further away. I think it's not as simple as that. Female vocals for example sound much more forward on the Q701. Things can sound very up-front on my Q701 if that's how they were supposed to sound. I do agree that a warm headphone does seem to make a headphone's soundstage seem smaller. I get that with the HD-650 sometimes. This is often why I felt the soundstage of the Q701 seemed smaller than that of the regular K702. K702 is also more airy sounding as well. Sometimes it's soundstage seemed abnormally huge and probably due to lack of warmth (it has a little).

 

So for the Annie you're basically giving up some treble/upper mids for more mid-bass, fuller low mids. Not sure what else really. Low mids do seem a little more forward on the Annie. This is one reason it does sound a little more forward overall than the Q701 at times. All except for female vocals IMO. People say that the Annie is a smoother version of the Q701. Can't agree with this..unless it's for harsh material with the upper mids/treble cranked up at the studio. The Annie can get bad with the wrong material too. Actually Q701 almost always sounds pretty smooth. At times it actually sounds almost as smooth as my HD-650. Not even kidding. There is some stuff that can even cause fatigue with even my HD-650 but that's very rare. It does sound smoother with my E17 as a DAC compared to the Modi though.

 

I don't understand this "lack of bass" really. Yes, it's true the Q701 doesn't have that much really low bass, but the Annie doesn't really fix any of that IMO. If I wanted more low bass I'd have to buy something else like an HD-650 or DT-990. Maybe the K712? I actually think the HD-650 has just only SLIGHTLY more low bass presence than my Q701. That's the main reason I use it for gaming over the Q701.

 

So..can't say it enough, there is no "best" version really.

 

Fingers crossed that the K712 is even better than the Anniversary. If it's a clone i'll probably pass..


Edited by tdockweiler - 8/18/13 at 8:55pm
post #1136 of 3764
Quote:
Originally Posted by tdockweiler View Post

So for the Annie you're basically giving up some treble/upper mids for more mid-bass, fuller low mids. Not sure what else really. Low mids do seem a little more forward on the Annie. This is one reason it does sound a little more forward overall than the Q701 at times. All except for female vocals IMO. People say that the Annie is a smoother version of the Q701. Can't agree with this..unless it's for harsh material with the upper mids/treble cranked up at the studio. The Annie can get bad with the wrong material too. Actually Q701 almost always sounds pretty smooth. At times it actually sounds almost as smooth as my HD-650. Not even kidding. There is some stuff that can even cause fatigue with even my HD-650 but that's very rare. It does sound smoother with my E17 as a DAC compared to the Modi though.

 

I don't understand this "lack of bass" really. Yes, it's true the Q701 doesn't have that much really low bass, but the Annie doesn't really fix any of that IMO. If I wanted more low bass I'd have to buy something else like an HD-650 or DT-990. Maybe the K712? I actually think the HD-650 has just only SLIGHTLY more low bass presence than my Q701. That's the main reason I use it for gaming over the Q701.

 

My personal opinion is that the anniversary pads make these cans, not necessarily smoother, but more balanced. And I do sense more sub bass with the anniversaries. It's also not only the bass increase but the overall warmness. I still can get fatigued by the upper mids regardless of what pads I use, but that's something I try to fix with tube rolling. I don't understand why people are trying to find what model or pad is ultimately better since it's all about personal preferences. We should let people know that they can get this relatively cheap mod and easily turn their signature more towards the HD650 if they so desire. The pads are cheaper than the HD650 and arguably better. In the end it all comes to the head band. If you don't like the bumbs get either anniversaries or K712 or wait for new standard models with bumbless head band. Then get the complementary pads to make the set complete.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by tdockweiler View Post

So..can't say it enough, there is no "best" version really.

 

True and that's why we should embrace the new anniversary pads as a great and easy mod for already great cans. I recommend all the standard version owners to get the anniversary pads and vice versa.

post #1137 of 3764

Where are you chico?

 

popcorn.gifpopcorn.gifpopcorn.gif

post #1138 of 3764

LoL

 

I'm typing a post right now...

post #1139 of 3764
So, here's an update on what's going on with the K712:
 
 
First off, the two are very similar sounding and the K712 isn't airier and doesn't have more low bass or anything like that.  They're very similar in signature, but not identical.  There are some minor differences, and I'm still working on pinning them down (I posted some at the bottom of this post).   One reason that it's hard to pin the differences down is because there there is another variable complicating things and affecting the sound.
Can you guess what it is?...
 
...the pads tongue.gif  Yes, that's right:  the pads on the K712 are slightly different than the ones on the Annivesary.  In fact, the first thing I noticed and thought of when I took the K712 out of the box was: "Hmm...the pads look a little different."  I wouldn't expect most people to spot the difference between them (especially since it seems like some people don't notice the difference between the memory foam pads from the regular pads).  The second thing I thought was, "I bet these pads are going to change the sound from the Anniversary pads."   It turns out they do, and I'll get into that later.
 
The K712 pads are still memory foam but they're shaped a little different.  They shaped a little more like the regular foam pads.  They are slightly deeper/taller and have more of a vertical wall shape on the inside, whereas the anniversary padding is  more like a shorter, fatter, rounded doughnut shape of padding.  The K712 pads are also slightly firmer and less "tempurpedic" than the Anniversary pads.  They're not as quick to compress as the Anniversary pads.  I don't know if it's because they're more densely packed with foam or what.  When you put the K712 pads, you notice there is more room inside the ear cup, more like the angled pads, whereas the Anniversary pads make your ears touch the drivers more.  I have big ears, so I noticed this pretty quickly.   
 
I considered that it might just be pad "burn-in" on my pair of pads, but I don't think so because I don't remember the pads on either of my new K702 Anniversaries (I've had two pairs) ever looking like this or having this much space inside the cups.  Even when I put them on my head brand new I could still feel my ears touching inside, but I can barely feel them touch on the K712.  So I'm guessing AKG slightly modified their memory foam pads at some point, maybe before or after the K712 was released.  For all I know there are some late K702 Annivesaries using the pads (although mine aren't and there serial number is #3621), or that some of the early K712s were still using the Annivesary pads.  I don't know.  If people could take pictures of their K712 and Anniversary pads it might help (although it can be hard to spot the difference in pictures).

BTW, yes, I'm aware that both headphones use the same part no. for their pads.  That doesn't mean AKG didn't modify them at one point for whatever reason.
 
 
 
 
Anyways, after comparing for a bit I could hear the two headphones sounded slightly different, and my first though was "They're probably the same headphone underneath and it's probably the pads making them sound different". While it's true that the pads do make them sound different, after comparing a bit more I noticed that the actual headphones sound slightly different as well.  Now I don't know if they're intentionally different or just have some minor variation between them or whatever, but they are slightly different.
 
Before I get to how the headphones differ, I'll first describe how pads sound different.  Since both pads are memory foam, they generally keep the same sound signature and where the difference mainly comes in is in the overall intimate Vs. distant presentation of the sound.  The Annivesary pads are closer to your ear and as you'd imagine they sound more intimate and forward, while the K712 pads are slightly deeper as a result sound a bit more distant and laid back.  I also notice the mids being more forward in the mix with Anniversary pads and a little more laid-back with the memory foam pads.  This change in the presentation occurs regardless of which headphone is using the pads.
 
Unfortunately, since the two headphones have slightly different pads, it adds another variable affecting the sound that you have to control for.  I have three sets of unique pads:  angled pads, memory foam pads from the Anniversary, and the slightly different memory foam pads from the K712.  That means I can't put identical pairs of pads on both headphones and do like-for-like comparison between them.  The only way to control for the pads is to swap them for each comparison, which slows comparing down. 
 
 
 
 
I started swapping pads to see if the sound swapped with them, and I noticed that when the K712 is using the Annivesary pads, it sounds particularly intimate, more intimate than the stock Anniversary, and that when the Anniversary is using the K712 pads it sounds a bit more open than the stock K712  - and almost as open as the Q701.  On the flip-side, when I compare each headphone in stock form, their presentation sounds closer to each other and I have to strain harder to hear a difference in the intimate Vs. distant presentation between the two - the soundstage is very similar.   So it seems like something about the underlying headphones presentation is different, and that the pads seem to be equalizing their presentation a bit.  It seems like the Anniversary headphone itself is slightly more open while the K712 itself slightly more intimate. 
 
A couple other ways the headphones themselves differ are:  The Anniversary has slightly more foward mids and upper mids, and is slightly drier sounding, while the K712 has slightly more laid-back mids/upper-mids and is slightly smoother sounding.  Like I just mentioned, the Anniversary by itself is a little more open sounding whereas the K712 is a little more intimate.  Because of the way the pads affect the soundstage though, they tend to equalize and balance out in that regard when using stock pads.

 
 
 
So to sum up what I hear so far:

K712 pads:  More open and laid-back/distant, mids slightly more laid back
Anniversary pads:  More forward and intimate, mids slightly more foward sounding
 
Anniversary headphone itself:  slightly drier sounding, mids a little more foward including upper mids, * slightly more open
K712 headphone itself:  Slightly smoother sounding, mids slightly more laid-back, slightly less upper mid glare,  * a bit more intimate
 
*Note that when each headphones is using its stock pads, the soundstage presentation basically equalizes between the two and sounds about the same.
 
 
Again, the two are very similar and if you have one I don't think I'd bother trying to get the other one. 

Edited by chicolom - 8/20/13 at 1:52am
post #1140 of 3764
By looking at people's pictures of the k712 i thought the pads looked a little thicker, myself. Thanks for confirming all of this, chico... and thank you, MLee, for sending him the 'phones.
Edited by Change is Good - 8/20/13 at 12:30am
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