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post #106 of 172
Quote:
Originally Posted by smedley View Post

  I would imagine people who use the ear "buds" are even more prone as with those the sound is almost right on the ear drum .

Louder than grado leaking, and nearer to the ears tooblink.gif
I seriously wonder how their hearing is, or if they have tinnitus or not.

post #107 of 172
Quote:
Originally Posted by smedley View Post

  I would imagine people who use the ear "buds" are even more prone as with those the sound is almost right on the ear drum .

I think that's actually been proven wrong in studies.
post #108 of 172

It's all dependent on volume and time:

 

http://www.osteopathic.org/osteopathic-health/about-your-health/health-conditions-library/general-health/Pages/headphone-safety.aspx

 

 

Quote:

Hearing Loss and Headphones - Is Anyone Listening?

As a parent, do you often find yourself asking your teenagers to remove their headphones so you can speak to them? You may want to consider doing it even more often. Today, one in five teens has some form of hearing loss - a rate about 30% higher than it was in the 1980s and 1990s - which many experts believe is due, in part, to the increased use of headphones. James E. Foy, DO, an osteopathic pediatrician from Vallejo, Calif., explains what you can do to minimize your child’s risk of hearing loss.

"Listening through headphones at a high volume for extended periods of time can result in lifelong hearing loss for children and teens," says Dr. Foy. "Even a mild hearing loss due to excessive noise could lead to developmental delays in speech and language."

So, how loud is too loud?

"Most MP3 players today can produce sounds up to 120 decibels, equivalent to a sound level at a rock concert. At that level, hearing loss can occur after only about an hour and 15 minutes," warns Dr. Foy.

"I stress to my patients and the parents of my patients that if you can’t hear anything going on around you when listening to headphones, the decibel level is too high," he says.

Dr. Foy advises that people should not exceed 60% of maximum volume when listening through headphones.

Duration of exposure to noise is also a major factor. How long is too long?

"As a rule of thumb, you should only use MP3 devices at levels up to 60% of maximum volume for a total of 60 minutes a day," says Dr. Foy. "The louder the volume, the shorter your duration should be. At maximum volume, you should listen for only about five minutes a day."

What are the signs of hearing loss?

"The type of hearing loss due to headphone use is typically gradual, cumulative and without obvious warning signs," explains Dr. Foy. "A hearing test and a medical examination are the only way to truly diagnose hearing damage."

However, if you or your child experiences any of the following symptoms, Dr. Foy recommends a visit to a physician immediately.

  • Ringing, roaring, hissing or buzzing in the ear
  • Difficulty understanding speech in noisy places or places with poor acoustics
  • Muffled sounds and a feeling that your ear is plugged
  • Listening to the TV or radio at a higher volume than in the past

What is the treatment for hearing loss?

"Unfortunately, the type of hearing loss caused by over exposure to very loud noise is irreversible, making prevention paramount," says Dr. Foy. "Hearing aids and implants can help in amplifying sounds and making it easier to hear, but they are merely compensating for the damaged or nonworking parts of the ear."

How can I prevent hearing loss?

"First and foremost, follow the 60/60 rule in regards to percentage of maximum volume and duration of time," says Dr. Foy. Additionally, he suggests using older style, larger headphones that rest over the ear opening instead of earphones that are placed directly in your ear. "Whether using headphones or earphones, moderation is key," says Dr. Foy. "Avoiding excessive use of listening devices altogether will go a long way in preventing hearing loss."

 
 
 

About Osteopathic Medicine

Preventive medicine is just one aspect of care osteopathic physicians (DOs) provide. DOs are fully licensed to prescribe medicine and practice in all specialty areas, including surgery. DOs are trained to consider the health of the whole person and use their hands to help diagnose and treat their patients. Learn more about DOs and osteopathic medicine.

 

 

Since they are talking about MP3 players above, I gather that they are referring to earphones, not headphones as they say.

 

I would also think that listening at lower levels then 60% of the volume can increase listening time. Btw, I don't know about anyone else, but I'm usually in the 33-35% of volume on most of of my players, 60% would be to high for my ears.

 

Granted, I fall into the "Difficulty understanding speech in noisy places or places with poor acoustics" category but given my history, I'm surprised that I'm not deaf.

post #109 of 172

Another good link:

http://medicine.stonybrookmedicine.edu/surgery/blog/headphones-and-earphones-can-cause-permanent-hearing-loss-what-you-need-to-know

 

 

Quote:

Here are some loudness/time facts to consider (the unit of measurement is decibel):

  • At 95 dB, damage will occur after four hours of exposure per day.
  • At 100 dB, damage will occur after two hours of exposure per day.
  • At 105 dB, damage will occur after one hour of exposure per day.
  • At 110 dB, damage will occur after 30 minutes of exposure per day.
  • At 115 dB, damage will occur after 15 minutes of exposure per day.
  • At 120-plus dB, damage occurs almost immediately.

Most portable stereo music systems produce sound in the range of 95-108 dB at level four and in excess of 115 dB at level eight.

For comparison, a soft whisper is usually measured at 30dB; busy traffic at 75dB; a subway train at 90dB; a gunshot blast at 100 dB, a jet plane at 140 dB; and a rocket launching pad at 180 dB. Sounds above 140 dB usually cause pain. If you have to speak in a loud voice to be understood, background sound is probably in excess of 90 dB.

 

and one more:

http://stonybrookphysicians.adam.com/content.aspx?productId=117&pid=60&gid=000495

 

 

Quote:

Jobs or activities that increase your chance of hearing loss music are:

  • Being a musician, sound crew member, or recording engineer
  • Working at a night club
  • Attending concerts
  • Using portable music devices with headphones

Children who play in school bands can be exposed to high decibel sounds, depending on which instruments they sit around.

 

Funny, I meet three of the above criteria, and no, I was never in a school band. I'm doomed. Does being a deejay for 15 years make me fall into "sound crew member"? If so then it's four out of four! Ouch.

post #110 of 172

I developed pretty bad tinnitus a couple of years ago, it turned out to be related to chronic sinus infections. When it was at its worst I almost couldn't listed to music at all, as the tinnitus would just drown everything out. It was very depressing, and my sympathies to the OP as I can understand how they feel. I did have my hearing tested a year ago or so, and I still have better than average hearing for someone my age (I'll be 54 next month). But sinus issues seem to be a permanent part of my life now and I still get the tinnitus off and on, although fortunately not as severely as I did for those few months a couple of years back.

 

What has worked for me is sticking to warmish sounding headphones (for IEMs I use Turbines with Comply tips, and for headphones I am currently enjoying some UE 4000s from Logitech) and keeping the volume limited. I actually think closed/well isolating phones are good as they help me avoid the temptation to turn up the volume to mask a noisy environment.

post #111 of 172
Quote:
I actually think closed/well isolating phones are good as they help me avoid the temptation to turn up the volume to mask a noisy environment.

 

Agreed. My assumption is that the better the fit/isolation is on the earphones, the better the chance one will keep the volume at a reasonable level.
 

post #112 of 172

I have had an issue with my right ear that when i hear high pitched noises (usually my 8 year old daughter) my ear starts to distort, i fix it by holding my nose and blowing (like you might do on a plane).

 

Anyway freaked me out so i  bought some Canford MDR-7506's , they are limited to 88dba, the BBC issue these to their engineers. They sound excellent and ease my mind.

 

Ironically enough , headphones may be the cure for tinnitus in the end :

 

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-2171138/Tinnitus-The-4-500-headphones-eased-suffering.html

post #113 of 172
Quote:
Originally Posted by astroid View Post

I have had an issue with my right ear that when i hear high pitched noises (usually my 8 year old daughter) my ear starts to distort, i fix it by holding my nose and blowing (like you might do on a plane).

 

Anyway freaked me out so i  bought some Canford MDR-7506's , they are limited to 88dba, the BBC issue these to their engineers. They sound excellent and ease my mind.

 

Ironically enough , headphones may be the cure for tinnitus in the end :

 

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-2171138/Tinnitus-The-4-500-headphones-eased-suffering.html

 

Yes, exactly. There was a bizarre thread on head fi where a poster stated that ANY use of headphones damaged a person's hearing. You get weird extremes of ignorance: some claiming you can listen at any volume and use any kind of headphones without risk to your hearing, others claiming that any use of headphones is damaging. 

 

It seems common sense and prudence are rare commodites these days.

post #114 of 172

Not to single anyone out, but guys, consider this (from this thread):

 

 

Quote:
Also, whenever I go to a concert nowadays I make sure to wear earplugs -- concerts have become so loud that IMHO it's hard to hear anything without earplugs!

 

What kind of insanity is this? I watch kids in the mosh-pit and think, if this were a workplace, what's happening would be illegal. Isn't it time to think about why bands got so loud and what we can collectively do about it?
 

post #115 of 172
Quote:
Originally Posted by bruce108 View Post

Not to single anyone out, but guys, consider this (from this thread):

 

 

 

What kind of insanity is this? I watch kids in the mosh-pit and think, if this were a workplace, what's happening would be illegal. Isn't it time to think about why bands got so loud and what we can collectively do about it?
 

 

It's a crazy world we live in. Generalized, deep stupidity is the norm. 

post #116 of 172
Quote:
Originally Posted by Biscuitz View Post

Bareyb, that sucks.

I have tinnitus. I've always had tinnitus since as long as I could remember. It actually wasn't until my early teens that I realized not everyone has the same obnoxiously loud ringing in their ears. I suppose I feel fortunate to have always had it and to be used to it, rather than to develop it late.

 

I don't know if this might be of some slight comfort to you, but just know that I personally am "used" to my tinnitus. Granted, I honestly have no idea what it's like to not have tinnitus, so perhaps I have an advantage in that sense. But, in time I think your brain will adapt to the sound in such a way that you truly will only notice your tinnitus in these two situations: 1) In a dead silent setting 2) If you make a concerted effort to focus on the tinnitus (or when the topic comes up; e.g. this entire thread has me hearing it haha). For me, those are the only times when I notice my tinnitus really, even though mine is extremely loud.

 

I always keep a fan running in my room at night when sleeping. Any kind of constant background noise helps.

 

Is there a particular reason you can't listen to headphones anymore - even at low volumes?

getting to this thread kind of late, sorry to hear about what's happend. I can sort of realte as I've always had sinus issue my self. I've seen countless of doctors for my allergies so I'm used to Nasal Infections and overall ear pressure... although I've always grown up with a sort of whine in the air... even in silence there's a slight airy whine like a wood wind instrument played at a REALLY high pitch... 

 

Still never anything that's bothered me or drove me off the edge. Non the less I wish you the best 

post #117 of 172
Quote:
Originally Posted by Coll5nEpps View Post

It actually does go away after a long time(several months), but can be inflamed by binge drinking or different health ailments(colds, flu, ear infections, etc...)   The only time I've heard of it being permanent is when someone has a traumatic brain injury or some kind of blunt force trauma to the head.   One day you'll wake up months from now and not hear it anymore.   Just keep the volume at a comfortable level.

 

Peace

 

It doesn't. I've had mine for a few years and I don't drink (I'm 17). I hardly ever get colds / flus / ear infections / etc (that I notice at least). I got it about 4 years ago. If you temporarily damage it then yeah it'd go away (like maybe after a rave, though then again I believe it normally does slightly damage it hence the temporary tinnitus and overtime it'll accumulate), but if you permanently damage it then it is indeed permanent. Basically I've damaged my hearing to the point that I have to strain to hear 12kHz. It does get to the point though when you're pretty much used to it (still irritating when trying to sleep though). I'd assume it'd take quite awhile as I remember at first it drove me crazy.

 

To OP:

 

I'm pretty sure you don't HAVE to permanently give up headphones unless your urge is to always blast them. Like if you listen to it at 60dB, I don't see how you could damage it any further nor have I ever heard of it magically getting worse over time unless you're exposed to loud noise quite frequently. But then again he's a doctor.

 

I listen to IEMs at approx 60~70dB (I believe) (5/30~7/30 on my Sony F807 with ES3X which are sensitive) for a few hours a day and haven't noticed it getting worse over the months I've had the IEMs (been in this hobby for ~2 years, starting w/ M50s > HD25-iis in which I've listened to those at approx the same and haven't noticed it getting worse during that time period either).


Edited by AyeVeeN - 4/14/13 at 11:11pm
post #118 of 172
Quote:
Originally Posted by catscratch View Post

First off, tinnitus isn't due to headphones, it's simply the volume, though of course there are other physiological factors that can cause it totally independently of volume. The reason why headphones get blamed for it is that they make it far easier to achieve excessively high volume levels. It doesn't really matter if the sound comes from headphones or speakers or other external sources, it's the SPL that matters, and the amount of time you're exposed to it.

Also, tinnitus is common. Many, many people have at least some degree of tinnitus. We're almost constantly surrounded by background noise and have very few truly noise-free places where we can be aware of any background ringing in our ears. Becoming suddenly aware of tinnitus and freaking out about it, whereas in reality nothing has recently changed in our hearing, is also fairly common. Severe tinnitus, of course, is a far more significant problem.

In your position I would:

1) calm down.
2) stop all loud listening. Get a DB meter and see safe listening guidelines. Remember that those guidelines apply to healthy ears, for someone with hearing damage you will want to keep volumes even lower.
3) wait for several months and see what happens. There is a chance that the severity of it will lessen.

Incidentally, I also have tinnitus. Not severe by any means, but there times when I notice it. Usually it's tied to elevated blood pressure. I haven't given up headphones, I simply listen at sane levels and for less time in a sitting. Over the time it has lessened though it hasn't gone away.

 

Excellent advice. Even getting a pair of small bookshelf speakers and listening at quiet volumes will reduce the harm and keep the muse fed. There is so much electronic 'hash' in the air now, just above 20khz, that it is no wonder most of us hear ringing at many times.
post #119 of 172

I have tinnitus and it actually came at a point where I wasn't listening to music at all. I don't understand it, and I hate it...but music ain't stoppin'. Even if I went deaf.

 

Music isn't just hearing, it's feeling, too. If I went deaf I'd sell my gear and use the money to go to more live shows. Especially music with tons of thump and fun.

 

I think there are some kinds of music I could honestly enjoy more if I couldn't hear them. It sounds a little ridiculous, but it's true.

 

Music will never stop being a part of my life, it'll just...change.

post #120 of 172

sorry to hear that, man. what a pity...

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