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Clipping waveform on a CD - Why? - Page 2

post #16 of 26

Applying digital attenuation to an already clipped recording does not fix the problem. The only real solution is to get a better mastered version, assuming one exists at all. Reducing the digital volume can fix clipping if it occurs somewhere in your system (DAC, gain stage of amplifier, etc.).

post #17 of 26
Thread Starter 
+1 for stv014

This thread was about why recordings are sold to consumers with missing data. There are so many tracks that are ruined by the loudness war it's not funny.

Hopefully one day it will return to how it should be.
post #18 of 26

Alright, it seems I got it wrong.

But if i scan my tracks with foobar2000 and it shows a track peak of >1 then negative preamp gain would make sense, right?

 

Edit: Unreal, i just found a track with a track peak of 3.4. I'd need a preamp setting of -10.63 dB to prevent further clipping, right?


Edited by Kaffeemann - 3/2/14 at 4:23am
post #19 of 26
Quote:
Originally Posted by stv014 View Post

Applying digital attenuation to an already clipped recording does not fix the problem. The only real solution is to get a better mastered version, assuming one exists at all. Reducing the digital volume can fix clipping if it occurs somewhere in your system (DAC, gain stage of amplifier, etc.).

A new phenomenon is to make higher priced vinyl copies with better mastering than the CD.
Take the DaftPunk RAM, for instance. The CD peaks to within -0.01 db, and has a dynamic range of about 8db.
The vinyl peaks around -2db and has a dynamic range of 13db.

I can only assume that record companies have stopped counting CD listeners as "serious".
post #20 of 26

Very little problem with hot mastering in classical or jazz. If it bothers you, it might be a good time to expand your tastes.

post #21 of 26
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaffeemann View Post
 

Alright, it seems I got it wrong.

But if i scan my tracks with foobar2000 and it shows a track peak of >1 then negative preamp gain would make sense, right?

 

Edit: Unreal, i just found a track with a track peak of 3.4. I'd need a preamp setting of -10.63 dB to prevent further clipping, right?


My understanding is that if the file itself has clipped then the waveform reproduced will be clipped, no matter what level you play it at.

post #22 of 26
Quote:
Originally Posted by bigshot View Post
 

I found my first example of clipping on a classical CD the other day. It was a Mozart flute concerto. In peaks of the solo flute, it started having a repeating thud sound mixed in. At first I thought it was my AAC encode, but I pulled the original CD and sure enough, it was on there too.

While in general, classical is recorded, mixed, and mastered with a great deal of sanity, I too have had the shock of clipped classical... Yukie Nagai's Beethoven sonatas on BIS, a label I'm very used to trusting the quality of! Unfortunately, I find this even more glaring on such a release that hasn't been dynamically compressed to death... Sticks out like a sore thumb...

post #23 of 26
Quote:
Originally Posted by bigshot View Post
 

Very little problem with hot mastering in classical or jazz. If it bothers you, it might be a good time to expand your tastes.

 

Already in the process of doing that. But it takes time to develop new tastes.

post #24 of 26
Quote:
Originally Posted by kraken2109 View Post
 


My understanding is that if the file itself has clipped then the waveform reproduced will be clipped, no matter what level you play it at.


You can't undo the damage if the damaged data is part of the original disc/file you bought.

 

The only thing to do is hope the recording gets reissued some time in the future by a more intelligent company. Of course, that's assuming the original recording isn't compressed to buggery because that's how the artist wanted it (hi there, Metallica!).

 

Sometimes I wish I hadn't installed the Dynamic Range Meter on my Foobar. It can be a bit depressing to see those single-digit numbers appear.

post #25 of 26
Clipping on a CD is flaw, and the CD should be returned for a refund.

w
post #26 of 26

^^

 

Unfortunately if you did that you wouldn't be able to buy any new pop, dance or house (EDM) music at all. Quite a lot of rock and most metal also.

 

My best interface (MOTU) comes with sophisticated level metering software as standard. I was amazed to discover virtually all my recent CD and download purchases showed red clipping when output at full scale (all sliders on max in software - as is often recommended). At first I thought this was due to either the software being wrong or designed to deliberately over-read as a safety precaution. So I loaded a variety of tracks into Audacity and looked for clipping. Sure enough there it was. Some tracks even go as far as 3 dB over full scale in places (as measured with the 'amplify or normalise functions).

 

To be fair I cannot usually hear the clipping except in really extreme cases. I used to drop the output by 5dB on the basis that the overreads were intersample peaks but now I don't bother. Like someone has already stated. If the clipping is on the master knocking off a bit doesn't help.

 

So what is going on is that mastering 'engineers' are deliberately pushing tunes into clipping (at a low enough level so you cannot always hear it) in order to make the tune sound louder (which you can hear).

 

It's a poor system but that's the way it is atm. Sadly.

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