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Philips Fidelio S1 and S2 - New IEMs with semi-closed back - Page 9

post #121 of 318
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ultrazino View Post

 

There is no doubt they receive a nice bonus for publishing an article of specific companies.

 

I don't want to imply anything, but it's just how I feel. I bet I'd think differently if Inner Fidelity actually picked up the pace and make batch reviews with comparisons. There is so much happening right now and very few products receive attention - and then they get praised.

This is what's happening now: "Hey I know I haven't covered any of the past 30 big releases, but here's a new product I want to show you. I'm the first to have it and it's going straight to the hall of fame! Remember, reviews are always subjective."

 

If by bonus you mean getting headphones for free, I basically couldn't care less.  I've got more headphones than I could possibly use, and on my leasure time I ride motorcycles and listen very little. Turn your hobby into a profession and you've got to get another hobby. 

 

I listen to and measure probably 10 headphones for every one I write about.  I'm focused on finding stuff people would like, and other than having the measurements and making a comment in my monthly update, I simply couldn't care less about mediocre headphones. The only negative reviews I do is when one of the major players makes a crap can that might get wide-spread attention. Then I feel the need to warn people off. (Audeze mfg problems, Focal Spirit One problems, Meridian high output impedance, Ultrasone crap).

 

Other than a few cases (Fidelio X1, Noontec Zoro, maybe a few others) I rarely am the first, or even in the top ten, publication to review a headphone. In fact, a LOT of my reviews are about headphones that have been around for years (580/600/650, 800, 880, and many others). Because InnerFidelity is only two years old, I have a lot of catch up work to do reviewing cans that are old, but great. 

 

Your above post is a total fabrication made up in your own head.

 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ultrazino View Post

 But when Inner Fidelity started, people were expecting the honest headphone source, highlighting flaws to producers and customers alike.

 

And, TBH, you can't tell me you don't know which power IF has to feature any product and thus help a company out a lot. It's normal people will lose faith. However, this has nothing to do with me, I am just the voice of many and you can take it as a warning or a foolish remark or whatever. Just have a look at the last articles: Win a Ferrari headphone, single amp (awarded), v-moda advertisement, sony line-up (wall of fame), philips inear (wall of fame), philips headphone (wall of fame), mini unknown DAC with focus on company information (awarded), another company boosted and awarded, ...

 

If you would respond everytime somebody thinks IF loses credibility, you won't have time to write any articles anymore.

It is THE honest headphone source, that's why I've writen articles on Meridian, Audeze, Focal, Ultrasone; and it's why I spend a significant amount of time measuring headphones.

 

You are just "the voice of many!?" Says who? That's awful presumptuous.

 

The Ferrari SWEEPSTAKES is not a review, it's a sweepstakes that gets coordinated by the Home Tech group of which I'm a part. You'll notice that there's a similar Ferrari sweepstakes post on both Stereophile and AudioStream websites. These are done by the group, I don't post them, I have no idea what's coming up, I have nothing to do with them.

 

Advertising is not placed on the page with any person's conscious intent. In fact, ads rotate, if you go back to the same page it will have different ads on it. (Though it's possible that casching may cause the ads to remain the same.) Your point is invalid. 

 

Yes, responding to you is a waste of my time, except it borders on slander and I feel the need to respond.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ultrazino View Post

Inner Fidelity is a blog promoting a very few selected products. Be it a time management issue or whatever, it is what it is.

 

It's not how IF started and they tried hard to stay as objective as possible - which is what this community needs. We - the normal users - do not have the possibility to compare with dozen different IEMs. That's why we appreciate Tyll for what he does.

 

As for awarding (wall of fame = best of the best) the new Philips Fidelio IEM: Joker has not reviewed, nor compared them in his Multi-IEM Review thread. Now why would I trust an article that is just a few posts below two advertisements? Excuse me, my bad!

Exactly. I'm one person and have limited time, so I try to find stuff that satisfies peoples listening desires.

 

It's how InnerFidelity started and it hasn't changed one bit, in terms of strategy. Tactics have morphed a bit, and will continue as I learn to do the job better.

 

Advertising is what pays for the work to create the content.  Many IF ads are placed on the page contextually by Google Ads servers. Yes, your bad, that's the way things work, so what? (Rhetorical, don't bother answering.) 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ultrazino View Post

 I question the people that buy products blindly because of one opinion. 

 

 - and I quote: "I had to get a pair of S1's because from the Innerfidelity post it seemed to good to pass up."

 

That's the whole point of trying to become and remain a trusted source: so that people can feel comfortable buying on one opinion. And that's why Joker writes for me: I trust his opinion. When I get IEMs in I simple measure them, give them a quick listen, and then send them off to Joker so that he can decide whether they worth writing about.

 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ultrazino View Post

I have written a review* of a product I liked. I tried to be objective, but I guess I was a little enthusiastic - the condition is probably best known as New Toy Syndrome, you should know it very well.

That company contacted me after and sent me a gift to my surprise!

 

That same company is on your wall of fame.

 

* I posted said review elsewhere, not on Head-Fi.

 

Source Interlink Media has strict rules about gifts. I don't receive gifts. I do get headphones for free, but mainly because: 1) I ask to keep it for further comparisons, particularly if they're on the Wall of Fame, or 2) Most headphones cost to the companies that send them to me is so low it's cheaper to let me keep them than have them shipped back and reprocessed. (Not true in the case of cans over about $300-$500.)

 

Headphones that I have that I don't need go in a box in the closet.  The stinkers get thrown in the trash. The half way decent ones in the box sometimes get given to the kids in my neighborhood for their birthdays and such.  I NEVER sell them of give them away to any monitary or personal advantage. (Well, the neighborhood kids like me, but that's mainly because they know my back yard can be part of the territory used in their  war games.)

 

I find your tone and posts presumptuous, misleading, nonsensical, and uninformed in the extreme. 

 

 

 

 

 I simply couldn't continue my work this day without responding to try to clarify what the truth is. My apologies for the off-topic drift.


Edited by Tyll Hertsens - 5/3/13 at 10:03am
post #122 of 318
I think that about takes care of that. As a Mod here I'll ensure the topic stays on topic moving forward.
post #123 of 318
Just to clarify my position. I think these do deserve a HF status at Inner Fidelity because they are a great headphone. I just wanted to let people know if you have a good mid-fi IEM that you liked that these are not like a $400 giant slayer that should make people rush out to buy them. Also my comparison between them and the 381F doesn't diminish the S2 in my opinion it just shows how well done sonically the 381F is. Build quality wise though the S2 is SIGNIFICANTLY better than the 381F. In many ways the posts about the 381F are for Sofastreamer (and other 381F owners/lookers) because I know how much Sofa likes the 381F and I know he is wondering about the difference between these IEM's sonically speaking. I also know Sofastreamer is aware of the difference in build quality which is why I had not talked about that aspect much. If you will, think of the 381F like Toyotas first Tercels ever made, excellent value so long as you accepted what wasn't there.
Edited by dweaver - 5/3/13 at 11:08am
post #124 of 318

I likes the S2 quite a lot as well.  As soon as I heard them I measured them and sent them immediately to Joker.  Philips has been doing an unbelievable job of producing cans lately. 

post #125 of 318
Quote:
Originally Posted by dweaver View Post

If someone wants to send me a pair I will compare it to my EX1000 wink.gif


These two do seem to be in the same niche of usage and i have the EX1000 in my sights for a long time now. The price difference suggests that the Sony should have the definitive edge in sheer technical performance but I'd be very grateful if you'd care to elaborate? What is the difference in terms of resolution, spaciousness and accuracy with classical music (specifically violins)?

post #126 of 318
I no longer have the EX1000 (sold mine at the same time as I ordered these). I actually found the EX1000 to bright which surprised me since I generally like brighter phones. The S2 in comparison is bright but never steps over the line into sibilant or painful. For me the S2 offers almost the perfect blend of the MDR 7550 and the EX1000 in terms of signature. It also does not suffer from the same wind issues. So my 2 cents would be give the S2 a try before the EX1000 considering the cost difference.
Edited by dweaver - 5/3/13 at 3:33pm
post #127 of 318
Quote:
Originally Posted by n_maher View Post

I think that about takes care of that. As a Mod here I'll ensure the topic stays on topic moving forward.

 

Thanks Nate. I was all wound up with a big reply but why bother? It's all been covered.

 

Now, about the S2 - I heard it last week and was rather impressed as well. It's competitive with the HiFiMAN RE-400 (though I didn't get to do a direct comparison) and collectively I'm very happy with the quality available at these relatively low prices. I find both the S2 and the RE-400 to be equal to or better than many of the former "top" universals costing many times more. It's a good time to be in the market for a decently priced IEM. 

post #128 of 318
Missed the part about violins, just listened to some Emerson String Quartet and found Violins and Cellos to sound very full and vibrant.
post #129 of 318
Quote:
Originally Posted by dweaver View Post  Ok quick comparison between 381F and S2 for Johnny Cash Man in Black. The S2 sounds more polished but the vocals are more recessed than the 381F and the percussion in the song is much stronger on the S2 as compared to the 381F. The sound stage feels slightly further back on the S2 which for this song feels more natural. Some of the percussion instruments sound a bit more natural on the 381F (can't say the name of the instrument but it makes a scratchy sound LOL). So aside from a bit more grain in the 381F it's almost a wash with IEM showing off what they are best at. I won't commit to it yet because I need to do more A/B comparisons but the price to cost ratio of the 381F is going to be hard to beat especially since I have the premium version of the Fidelio line.
Quote:
Originally Posted by dweaver View Post  Just to clarify my position. I think these do deserve a HF status at Inner Fidelity because they are a great headphone. I just wanted to let people know if you have a good mid-fi IEM that you liked that these are not like a $400 giant slayer that should make people rush out to buy them. Also my comparison between them and the 381F doesn't diminish the S2 in my opinion it just shows how well done sonically the 381F is. Build quality wise though the S2 is SIGNIFICANTLY better than the 381F. In many ways the posts about the 381F are for Sofastreamer (and other 381F owners/lookers) because I know how much Sofa likes the 381F and I know he is wondering about the difference between these IEM's sonically speaking. I also know Sofastreamer is aware of the difference in build quality which is why I had not talked about that aspect much. If you will, think of the 381F like Toyotas first Tercels ever made, excellent value so long as you accepted what wasn't there.

 

The 381Fs have been in my low-cost HoF for quite a few years already; it was the first earphone to show me a world beyond the big consumer brands, and that HQ sound need not be $$$, but the build quality really is terrible. I went through three pairs within a span of 1.5 years. I was lucky they only cost $20 where I live (Superlux's native Taiwan). I haven't heard the S2, but at least it seems to have solid build quality. The price/performance ratio is definitely not nearly as good, but the measurements Tyll has really are something else. I was highly impressed by what they put out. Listening to the 381F today, I'm still highly impressed, especially for its price, but it's not quite hi-fi, and under direct comparison to another similar semi-open design, the Phiaton PS210, the PS210 seems noticeably cleaner and tighter in response. Transients feel quicker, etc. and the PS210's measurements look kind of ugly compared to the S1/S2's. I think it'd be interesting for Tyll to measure the 381F; it really has an awesome sound for the price, but even though I haven't heard the S1 or the S2 (for some reason they're being stocked in very low numbers here, and I don't know where they are; I also don't have time to hunt them down), I'm prepared to say that they're probably the best semi-open design around, and that's really all I can expect. I've always insisted on always having one pair of semi-open earphones in my collection, so they might potentially replace my PS210.

post #130 of 318
I just realized my cold may be affecting my hearing more than I thought. I blew my nose and suddenly the S2 sounded way fuller. So I think I will stop giving much more impressions until I am over this cold as I suspect my opinion of these may change.
post #131 of 318
I am fairly new to the world of IEMs, but I do have a question. Are there a number of IEMs that are partially closed? I was thinking that most IEMs would almost have to be closed, although clearly that was a silly assumption on my part. Does an open IEM have the same effect as an open headphone?
post #132 of 318
Quote:
Originally Posted by DaddyMojo View Post

I am fairly new to the world of IEMs, but I do have a question. Are there a number of IEMs that are partially closed? I was thinking that most IEMs would almost have to be closed, although clearly that was a silly assumption on my part. Does an open IEM have the same effect as an open headphone?

 

For a dynamic, having it open should have similar effects as on an open headphone.  That's the theory anyway. 

post #133 of 318

Hmm... now i can't decide if it is worth spending 70 more dollars for GR07BEs for better comfort, isolation, bass quantity.  Is the overall sound quality much better on the GR07BE?  


Edited by SNSDGeeGee - 5/10/13 at 10:38pm
post #134 of 318
Quote:
Originally Posted by Divine33 View Post

Is the BE really bass heavy? because the GR07 did not have bass at all for a basshead.
 

No they aren't for bassheads but they have a slight emphasize on bass.  GR07BE having a bit more.  But nothing like monster turbine, Hippo VB, or EPH 100 from what I read.

post #135 of 318

I've been using these Philips Fidelio S1 for the last 10 days, and feel like joining head-fi and sharing some impressions (and make this thread alive).

* A bit of context, about me and my experience

I'm no audiophile, I entered this game of earphones 6 months ago, after quite a year without listening to music at home because of obnoxious neighbours polluting with their music and heels any of my attempts at listening to music on speakers.
Got first a bose qc15, which managed to anihilate these neigbours (still using them for movies, not so much for music), but felt the need to get some more confortable IEM for listening at night and maybe sleep on the side with them.
Over these months and countless hours reading reviews here, I tried : Meelectronics M6, Soundmagic PL50 and E10, JVC HA-NCX78, HA-FX67, HA-EX5B, HA-FX8, Sennheiser CX300ii and CX200ii, T-Jays Three, Philips SHE3590.
Mostly 10-50$ earphones. Never felt like risking more.

Sound quality was ok for me with all of these (except PL50 lacking bass, E10 being too dark, cx300 being too muddy).
I listen to electronica, jazz, classical, but my main music while testing was ambient, non distracting (but nevertheless interesting) music to block out other noises and allow sleeping or focusing on reading, etc... The lack of bass kills this effect (the pl50 was the most confortable of all, but this music was lacking body with them).

I had more concerns with practicality issues : friendly cables (too stiff on the soundmagics, crappy on sennheisers and she3590), cable length (120cm is too long, 70cm is ideal for me, have to be able to braid them), stable fit and low profile to be able to sleep on the side with them, tip confort...

Among all these, my favorites are the M6 : wonderful cable, low profile, favorite sound signature (no eq needed), but yet a bit unconfortable to sleep on the side with them.
Still using the T-Jays Three for that (so-so cable, but short, hurts when wore cable down, but wonderful cables over ears for sleeping, even if channels inverted, eq needed).
So, i was quite happy with the M6.

But while reading some reviews here, I felt like trying some upper-fi phones, to get a touch of high quality sound. Candidates were the Vsonic GR07 and Hifiman RE-400. Then came joker's review of the Philips Fidelio S1 and S2. These were a lot easier to get here in France, so got a S1 at a shop nearby. Wasnt expecting to keep and like them (looked too big, obviously not candidates for sleeping on the side, long cable, semi-opened, probably low isolation...).
I expected only to get a feel of quality sound, and that I would decide there wasnt any much differences for me with the M6 I love, and that I would be fine and stick to the M6 and stopped looking for other things.
Well, I'm no more using the M6.


* Ergonomy and practicality impressions

I've read people having problems with the seal. I had them too the first days. I always use medium sized tips. Tried them with the S1 : stock medium tips, sony hybrids, others : the seal was loose, always feeling the need to re-adjust, the large body felt unconforatble with its contact with the back of the ear.
Tried some Comply T200 : the seal was fine, but i dont like much having these comply tips filling the whole ear.

I then tried the large stock tips (and other large tips, but the stock ones are the best), and well, I've used them for a week and it's now the most confortable IEM I have.
I just pop them in like earbuds, no need to push them into the ear : the body sits into the external ear, and the large tips naturally seal the ear entrance, like a cone meeting a cylinder : the contact surface may be smaller than the cylinder against cylinder contact one usually gets when pushing a tip into the ear entrance, but in the end, it feels really confortable (i'm always a bit irritated after some time by the contact between the top of a tip and the flat bottom of the ear entrance, where the ear canal makes a turn). It's the best seal I've had in regards to moving : I can frown, open big my mouth, make faces, the seal stays! And they are easy to pop out and back.
Also, the big body that bothered me the first days does not anymore. I guess the pressure is now distributed between the seal and the body, so it's fine (I mostly forget i have them in the ears, no need to touch them for hours, only sometimes getting the feeling of having these big things in my ears).

Isolation is quite ok (on par with m6 with stock tips or sony hybrids, on par with comply tips on various other iems, better than soundmagic e10, which must be more than semi-opened to be so non-isolating).

The flat cable is nice, very flexible, wraps around my neck like a clothe or soft leather (can't be braided to be shortened, so I use it like that). It can tangle, but it rolls and wraps nicely without any memory effect.

Used them on a clip+ that has some hardware defect, that makes a small one seconde noise every 1/2 minute when rockbox reads and buffers data from storage. I've been using a 150ohm impedance adapter to get rid of it. Good news with the S1 : it's the only iem i have that dont need this adapter.
My other device is a sony mw600 bluetooth receiver that gets audio streamed from linux players, and that device has a quite important hiss when streaming (hiss stops 2 secondes after audio streaming is stopped) : unfortunatly, I still need that impedance adapter with the S1.
Anyway, it's better than all the others iems i have regarding hiss.


* About the sound.

As stated, i'm no audiophile, and dont feel at ease with all your vocabulary :) So please, feel free to put names onto my impressions.

I can't tell my mids from my treebles :) But I can tell about the bass, and I really like it on the S1. It's full and present, not muddy at all, and I may now understand a bit about what people call "bass texture", i now hear different kind of bass :). Compared to the other iems I have, quantity is along the lines of the M6, may be a bit more. It's there and really present, but always bearable (unlike the T-Jays Three or Philips SHE3590 where bass is often unbearable).
The overall sound is balanced, like I like it on the M6. I feel the E10 to be too dark, the PL50 lacking bass and having bothering pics in the treebles. None of that with the S1, it's smooth and pleasurable.
There is less raw excitement than with the she3590, but it's better for long term listening (never felt the need to skip a track).

One strange thing is that on some tracks (solo or prepared piano, mono-layered ambient drones), the sound feels "remote", like coming from a distant room, like if there was some kind of reverberation. The sound is here in my head, volume is there, but I often feel the need to push the volume up to get a feeling of fullness. It's sometimes frustrating. I like these musics better with the other more straightfoward iems.
But on well produced, multi-layered tracks (pop, full electronica, jazz trios and more - not so much with orchestral classical), that same characteristic adds, i think, an other dimension, layers of music, really exciting ! It's like coming from mono to stereo :) Could that be what people call "soundstage depth" (I can't say it's wide : the sound is still in my head) ? Or is that "airyness" ? Or just better treebles ?
Or maybe that feeling of distance is there in the tracks, and just does not reveal itself with other less quality iems ?
It's a feeling I never had with my other iems. Is that the typical sound of opened cans ? (i think all those iems i have are closed back, and the only headphone i have is the qc15, thus closed).
Would really like to have answers to these questions, thank you :)

Another thing that may be related : I never really enjoyed jazz tracks where some instruments are stuck to one channel (ie: bass on the left, piano on the right). These are more enjoyable on these Fidelio.

Overall, I'm really happy with them. Just wanted to share that.

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