Problem about burn in

no such thing as cables needing burn in, applying power to a cable is just electron transfer nothing more.

Just reject any claim that is not supported by evidence. Anecdotes (e.g. someone telling you that even his wife heard a difference) are meaningless.

Just entertain him, chances are he had argued with more people than you and would think you're some sort of monkey trying to tell him burn in is just a myth.

Just smile and wave boys. Smile and wave.

There are many highly subjective things in audio and burn in I think is one of them. I personally believe in ears "burn in" rather than other "burns" :)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Romis 

There are many highly subjective things in audio and burn in I think is one of them. I personally believe in ears "burn in" rather than other "burns" :)

The definition of subjective:  "existing in the mind; belonging to the thinking subject rather than to the object of thought (opposed to objective)"  and "relating to properties or specific conditions of the mind as distinguished from general or universal experience."

When speaking of highly subjective things in audio, we must be aware of the mind's susceptibility to suggestion, influence and expectation.  Subjective change, in the case of burn-in, occurs when you accept an authoritative suggestion of fact (Burn in of equipment and wires makes a difference even my wife can hear!), take definitive action (apply a lengthy period of burn-in with an exotic signal), have strong expectation based on the original suggestion coupled with a personal stake (I have to be able to hear the difference if even his wife can hear it!) and have no opportunity to compare the results with the original.  

If you were to take two samples that are identical, except that one has been "burned-in", and compare them double-blind, very few burned-in devices would present any detectable difference.  The ones that might would likely be electro-mechancial transducers operated near the edge of their designed limits, such as a subwoofer at extremely low frequencies.  But a properly designed device should operate within its original specifications within at least the warranty period. 

Ears do fatigue, and so does the ability to critically listen.  But ears also recover after a period of rest unless the ear has sustained irreversible damage.  We also gradually accept the familiar as being "normal" after exposure.  Even recording engineers need to be accustomed to the monitoring environment in which they make critical decisions.  They have to "learn" what is "normal", and this is done by listening to familiar material for a time, and becoming accustomed to the sonic mask or signature of that system.  The same happens when we get a new speaker or set of headphones. Our initial impressions are referenced to a difference between the new and old.  Or later impressions are the result of accommodation to the new normal.  Some may call this ear burn-in.

The power of authoritative suggestion:  A friend once told me that hackers could access the personal information in my PC even when it was turned off and unplugged.  He read something written by someone he considered authoritative.  There was nothing I could do to convince him that a computer without power was a box of inert parts. 

Oh this is so true jaddie. To me it seems that most people that say they are subjectivists think that their experiences and senses are reliable and tell them what is true.

-- Richard  Feynman

applying power to a cable is just electron transfer nothing more.

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Dexter's inability over the years to deliver consequences for Californication Season 6 DVD release date australia actions!
 

Quote:

Originally Posted by xnor 

Oh this is so true jaddie. To me it seems that most people that say they are subjectivists think that their experiences and senses are reliable and tell them what is true.

Yes. They are what I call "pseudo objectivists." Which is why I have a problem with The Great Debate always being framed as "subjectivist versus objectivist." If it was in fact between true subjectivists and true objectivists, there simply wouldn't be anything to argue.

se

Quote:

Originally Posted by draezeco 

applying power to a cable is just electron transfer nothing more.

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Yup. Some electron transfer for your Manhattan Transfer.

se

it's definitely subjective, however it does work with pure silver cables and there are many examples on the web :)

My moon v1 ciem cable is changing quite a bit but burn in is one of those things no one should worry about. Use it and forget about it. It will be what it will be. This is one that can't be proven by measurement so for some it will never exist. At the end of the day, it doesn't matter either way.

Originally Posted by lavricables 

it's definitely subjective, however it does work with pure silver cables and there are many examples on the web :)

Quote:

Originally Posted by goodvibes 

My moon v1 ciem cable is changing quite a bit but burn in is one of those things no one should worry about. Use it and forget about it. It will be what it will be. This is one that can't be proven by measurement so for some it will never exist. At the end of the day, it doesn't matter either way.

Please share with us how you know it's the cable that's changing and not something else in the system.  

And, if there are many examples on the web, perhaps just one...or two...?

I never mentioned examples on the web but there is plenty of observed but likely no measured which is what I'm sure you need. Whatever. I didn't come to fight or prove. Just add my observations in a nonconfrontational way. If it doesn't fit in your little box, throw it away.