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CD-DA explanation

post #1 of 16
Thread Starter 

 

Where can I find CD-DA empty discs to buy? And which brand would you recommend.. Verbatim, Sony.. etc. I just want to burn some flac music on them and use them in my car? Can't seem to find any of those...

post #2 of 16

There are no blank CD-DA discs though some CD blanks are/were designed for stand-alone CD-RW machines, though these are pretty rare now, what you want are blank CD-R. I do not think many (if any) car CD players support the FLAC format ?, check the manual for your unit. You may have to convert your FLAC files to WAV format before burning them, it is possible your burning software will do this for you if you ask it to make an audio CD.

 

Most modern car CD players will play CDs created from wav files. 


Edited by nick_charles - 3/21/13 at 8:08am
post #3 of 16
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by nick_charles View Post

There are no blank CD-DA discs though some CD blanks are/were designed for stand-alone CD-RW machines, though these are pretty rare now, what you want are blank CD-R. I do not think many (if any) car CD players support the FLAC format ?, check the manual for your unit. You may have to convert your FLAC files to WAV format before burning them, it is possible your burning software will do this for you if you ask it to make an audio CD.

 

Most modern car CD players will play CDs created from wav files. 

 

 

What is this then? :)

 


Edited by LuciferRising - 3/21/13 at 9:23am
post #4 of 16
Quote:
Originally Posted by LuciferRising View Post

 

What is this then? :)

 

 

Like Nick_Charles said:

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by nick_charles View Post

There are no blank CD-DA discs though some CD blanks are/were designed for stand-alone CD-RW machines, though these are pretty rare now, what you want are blank CD-R. I do not think many (if any) car CD players support the FLAC format ?, check the manual for your unit. You may have to convert your FLAC files to WAV format before burning them, it is possible your burning software will do this for you if you ask it to make an audio CD.

 

Most modern car CD players will play CDs created from wav files. 

post #5 of 16
Quote:
Originally Posted by LuciferRising View Post

 

What is this then? :)

 

 

 

 

What you painfully highlighted is still a CD-R. It is intended for CD-RW machines (now largely forgotten as we have PCs with CD burners) (but will work just as well in a computer) but it is still a CD-R not like a commercial CD which is formed from a pressing process, a CD-R stores data due to a very different process (is is to do with dyes). This is regardless of whether you use a PC or a stand-alone machine. Unless you really want to use a stand-alone CD recorder such as http://www.p4c.philips.com/files/c/cdr770_05/cdr770_05_dfu_eng.pdf then spending the extra money on blanks marked as CDDA (Audio) is utterly pointless. A stand-alone recorder will mimic the CD-DA format which may be relevant with really old CD players which may not like burned CDs or it may not, but the underlying data is LPCM regardless. The recordable Cd CD-R is known as Orange book unlike pressed CDs which are red book. 

 

That you can store digital audio on CD-Rs (which were originally designed for data long before anyone thought about using them to store audio) is a nice example of finding an unexpected use for something. However wav files (which you can happily burn to a CD-R) and the data on commercial pressed CDs are not quite the same thing as you will find if you use a file browser on a commercial audio CD in a computer you will basically appear to have a whole bunch of zero length files (shortcuts). A burned CD in a file browser will show you files types and files sizes like any other file.

 

That the CD-R is labelled as "Digital Audio" recordable simply means you can use it to record digital audio.

 

 

But don't take my word for it 

 

http://www.cdrfaq.org/faq07.html#S7-17

 

 

 

 

Quote:

"Consumer" stand-alone audio CD recorders require special blanks. See section (5-12) for details. There is no difference in quality or composition between "data" blanks and "music" blanks, except for a flag that indicates which one it is. It's likely that "music" blanks are optimized for recording at 1x, since anything you record "live" is by definition recorded at 1x (though some dual-drive systems allow track copying at higher speeds).

You don't have to use "music" blanks to record music on a computer or on a "professional" stand-alone audio CD recorder. Nothing will prevent you from doing so, but there's no advantage to it.

The "music" blanks are more expensive than the "data" blanks because a portion of the price goes to the music industry. The specifics vary from country to country. In the USA, the money goes to the RIAA, which distributes it to artists who have navigated through a complicated application process.

post #6 of 16
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by nick_charles View Post

 

What you painfully highlighted is still a CD-R. It is intended for CD-RW machines (now largely forgotten as we have PCs with CD burners) (but will work just as well in a computer) but it is still a CD-R not like a commercial CD which is formed from a pressing process, a CD-R stores data due to a very different process (is is to do with dyes). This is regardless of whether you use a PC or a stand-alone machine. Unless you really want to use a stand-alone CD recorder such as http://www.p4c.philips.com/files/c/cdr770_05/cdr770_05_dfu_eng.pdf then spending the extra money on blanks marked as CDDA (Audio) is utterly pointless. A stand-alone recorder will mimic the CD-DA format which may be relevant with really old CD players which may not like burned CDs or it may not, but the underlying data is LPCM regardless. The recordable Cd CD-R is known as Orange book unlike pressed CDs which are red book. 

 

That you can store digital audio on CD-Rs (which were originally designed for data long before anyone thought about using them to store audio) is a nice example of finding an unexpected use for something. However wav files (which you can happily burn to a CD-R) and the data on commercial pressed CDs are not quite the same thing as you will find if you use a file browser on a commercial audio CD in a computer you will basically appear to have a whole bunch of zero length files (shortcuts). A burned CD in a file browser will show you files types and files sizes like any other file.

 

That the CD-R is labelled as "Digital Audio" recordable simply means you can use it to record digital audio.

 

 

But don't take my word for it 

 

http://www.cdrfaq.org/faq07.html#S7-17

 

 

 

 

 

 

So what you are trying to tell me is that there's no difference between a random CD-R disc and a Music CD-R disc ? I was searching particularly for that label (CD-DA) on discs because my car's manual says:

 

post #7 of 16
Quote:
Originally Posted by LuciferRising View Post

 

 

So what you are trying to tell me is that there's no difference between a random CD-R disc and a Music CD-R disc ? I was searching particularly for that label (CD-DA) on discs because my car's manual says:.....CDDA

 

 

 

Fundamentally yes they are both formed from a "burning" process not pressing. Your car manual is basically saying it will not guarantee to play other discs CD-R, CD-RW. It does not mean it will not, regardless of the manual unless it is very old. A CD-R designated CDDA is still burnable in a PC but will just be a CD of PCM files and not CDDA so if your car manual is correct it will not play unless created in a stand-alone CD recorder which is gonna be $300 plus. I'd be inclined to borrow a CD-R of music from somebody and try it anyway.

post #8 of 16
Quote:
Originally Posted by LuciferRising View Post

 

 

Where can I find CD-DA empty discs to buy? And which brand would you recommend.. Verbatim, Sony.. etc. I just want to burn some flac music on them and use them in my car? Can't seem to find any of those...

 

CD-R's designed for computer burners are cheap, buy small packs of each (I think they come in 5's with individual cases; up to 100 discs in one spindle) and try them. Some old home audio CDPs can read these modern CD-Rs, like the CDM-4 transport in my early 90's Marantz CD60. Some Pioneers tend to read more than some Alpines; I've seen some CDA-9813 and others from that era (from when the front panel on the top models move out, then the half of it slides up and out for more controls/display space) before that we couldn't work with  some CD-Rs. My 9830 never had the same problem.

 

BTW, what receiver is that? If it's old enough to explicitly ask for the dedicated audio blank CDs does it even read compressed formats? You'd probably have to burn your FLAC files into regular WAV. (Although I haven't checked my manuals in a while, maybe they just use that logo)

post #9 of 16
Thread Starter 

Do I lose sound quality/bit rate/anything if I convert FLAC files to WAV files? I know that FLAC is the best as it is lossless.

post #10 of 16
Quote:
Originally Posted by LuciferRising View Post

Do I lose sound quality/bit rate/anything if I convert FLAC files to WAV files? I know that FLAC is the best as it is lossless.

 

You won't lose anything. You're only choosing from file size and convenience, not sound quality.

 

FLAC (and WAV, APE, ALAC, etc.) are lossless. FLAC files are smaller than WAV files, but every bit of the original audio data can be obtained from any of them.

post #11 of 16
Thread Starter 

I would appreciate some tutorials or how exactly to convert FLAC to WAV .. Some people use dbpoweramp or whatever its name is.. I was told that Nero does that converting on-the-fly which is not the way I prefer. I want to convert my songs in a folder and then just use those .wav files and burn a CD. Dont want Nero to do that while burning my audio CD.

post #12 of 16
Quote:
Originally Posted by LuciferRising View Post

I would appreciate some tutorials or how exactly to convert FLAC to WAV .. Some people use dbpoweramp or whatever its name is.. I was told that Nero does that converting on-the-fly which is not the way I prefer. I want to convert my songs in a folder and then just use those .wav files and burn a CD. Dont want Nero to do that while burning my audio CD.

 

I use MediaMonkey, but it should generally be the same for every other media player, the difference is only in the menus.

1) Click Tools.

2) Click Convert Files.

3) Select files, make sure all settings are correct. In your case, just set it to convert to .WAV. Select destination folder.

4) Burn using Nero or other program from the destination folder.

post #13 of 16
Thread Starter 

Hello again. I think something's wrong. Is it possible that after converting a .flac to a .wav, the wav file is smaller than the flac? I don't think that's possible, as FLAC works like .rar and when the .rar is extracted the folder that comes out of it should be larger.. that's the way it works.

 

Here's what I mean:

 

How the hell..? Is it a bad .flac or wtf?

post #14 of 16
Quote:
Originally Posted by LuciferRising View Post

Hello again. I think something's wrong. Is it possible that after converting a .flac to a .wav, the wav file is smaller than the flac? I don't think that's possible, as FLAC works like .rar and when the .rar is extracted the folder that comes out of it should be larger.. that's the way it works.

 

Here's what I mean:

 

How the hell..? Is it a bad .flac or wtf?

 

If the input file is uncompressable, the archive file will always be larger because of its overhead. That's the way file compression works.

 

Even so,  I've compressed many CD's and the worst FLAC compression I've ever gotten was about 20% reduction.


Edited by HamilcarBarca - 4/17/13 at 5:54pm
post #15 of 16
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by HamilcarBarca View Post

 

If the input file is uncompressable, the archive file will always be larger because of its overhead. That's the way file compression works.

 

Even so,  I've compressed many CD's and the worst FLAC compression I've ever gotten was about 20% reduction.

I really didnt understand what you just said. Sorry.

 

'input file' is the .flac file? or?

 

Did you see my screenshot? I downloaded the lossless (FLAC) album, then I used dbpoweramp to convert the .flac songs to .wav, and the result was - .wav file is smaller than the .flac file, which is weird.

 

Maybe if you explain a little bit easier to understand.. Why is that happening? Flac is like RAR archive right? If you extract the archive you should get a larger file, not a smaller than the archive ?

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