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Senn HD800 amp conundrum - Page 2

post #16 of 57
Stomps all over it sounds like a hyperbole. wink.gif
post #17 of 57

I have never had a chance to hear the Crack...I hope to someday. Still loving the CSP2+

post #18 of 57
I've built a number of Bottlehead products over the years & while they are cheap and fun to play with... I never found one capable of outperforming products "costing $$$ more". Rather, it would be more accurate to say they compare with the kit price. For example, if Crack is a $500 kit, it should be on par with a $500 amp.
post #19 of 57
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nick Dangerous View Post

I've built a number of Bottlehead products over the years & while they are cheap and fun to play with... I never found one capable of outperforming products "costing $$$ more". Rather, it would be more accurate to say they compare with the kit price. For example, if Crack is a $500 kit, it should be on par with a $500 amp.

 



But Nick, have you heard both in similar circumstances? Betting that it sounds better because it costs more is bad odds. I'd love to upgrade from the Crack eventually, but only if the Decware represents a genuine upgrade in sound quality. And in this case, I'm interested in pairing the amp with HD800 and retaining that phone's detail and soundstage—a task that the Crack, despite sounding lovely, and admittedly with stock tubes, doesn't seem up to.

post #20 of 57
Quote:
Originally Posted by mink70 View Post

 



But Nick, have you heard both in similar circumstances? Betting that it sounds better because it costs more is bad odds. I'd love to upgrade from the Crack eventually, but only if the Decware represents a genuine upgrade in sound quality. And in this case, I'm interested in pairing the amp with HD800 and retaining that phone's detail and soundstage—a task that the Crack, despite sounding lovely, and admittedly with stock tubes, doesn't seem up to.

 

No. More than often you get what you pay for.

 

-Daniel

post #21 of 57

Nope... but my opinion isn't merely based upon "cost differential". I have built several of their kits (among others) over the past decade and in every case the cost/performance curve was roughly on par with a value-level commercial product at or near the same price, but no higher. Based upon the parts in the Crack kit, I don't expect it to vary widely from what I've already learned... and thus, am not very eager to pursue a comparison test unless it was already laid out for me at a Head-Fi meet, etc. I imagine it would be like comparing the Bifrost to the Concero DAC.... took about 5 seconds to call it.

 

I'd be glad to give you a demo if you lived in the area. I do make it to NYC each year, but not with the CSP+ in tow. :/

post #22 of 57
Quote:
Originally Posted by BournePerfect View Post

 

No. More than often you get what you pay for.

 

-Daniel

 

Yep. 'fraid so. 

 

We all love a good underdog story, but what are odds if they aren't tied to the ends? 

post #23 of 57
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nick Dangerous View Post

Nope... but my opinion isn't merely based upon "cost differential". I have built several of their kits (among others) over the past decade and in every case the cost/performance curve was roughly on par with a value-level commercial product at or near the same price, but no higher. Based upon the parts in the Crack kit, I don't expect it to vary widely from what I've already learned... and thus, am not very eager to pursue a comparison test unless it was already laid out for me at a Head-Fi meet, etc. I imagine it would be like comparing the Bifrost to the Concero DAC.... took about 5 seconds to call it.

 

I'd be glad to give you a demo if you lived in the area. I do make it to NYC each year, but not with the CSP+ in tow. :/

That's very kind of you. I'm afraid I don't make it to Austin very often, either. The Decware stuff seems to occupy a unique berth among tube amps price-wise, and the 2K+ amps that people here admire are simply out of my reach. But auditioning the Decware is proving quite difficult, and dropping a grand and change on an unheard component inspires anxiety. I did that with the Crack, but for less than half the price—and while it sounds lovely, it may be headed for the For Sale forums. I'm curious to try a Tung Sol 5998, as folks report it makes a big difference in soundstaging and air, but I'm not sure whether the difference would be mostly palliative. 

post #24 of 57
Quote:
Originally Posted by mink70 View Post

That's very kind of you. I'm afraid I don't make it to Austin very often, either. The Decware stuff seems to occupy a unique berth among tube amps price-wise, and the 2K+ amps that people here admire are simply out of my reach. But auditioning the Decware is proving quite difficult, and dropping a grand and change on an unheard component inspires anxiety. I did that with the Crack, but for less than half the price—and while it sounds lovely, it may be headed for the For Sale forums. I'm curious to try a Tung Sol 5998, as folks report it makes a big difference in soundstaging and air, but I'm not sure whether the difference would be mostly palliative. 

There is a 30 day trial period from Decware. 

post #25 of 57

I may bee putting the csp2 up sale if i decide to keep the Mk111 i have in here  for review. Shoot me a pM if interested

post #26 of 57
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Frank I View Post

I may bee putting the csp2 up sale if i decide to keep the Mk111 i have in here  for review. Shoot me a pM if interested

Frank—How does the CSP2+ compare to the Taboo with the HD800s, in your experience?

post #27 of 57

The csp2 is an excellent combo with the hd800 and one I listen to mostly. The two together and the taboo section wins out with a much more dynanmic swing but the Taboo separately its a close call as the csp2 id SET and the Taboo MK111 is Pentode. I think the set is amore airy and delicate while the pentode is less airy and powerful.  I chose the csp2 when I sold the taboo the last time.

post #28 of 57

Personally I would never expect a "out of head experience" from a headphone. IMO no headphone would ever be able to provide the amazing 3D soundstage a speaker can put out. You can buy a $5000 amplifier but its not going to do anything for you if you are using it to power headphones. Listening to music through a headphone is not natural. The marketing team at Sennheiser did a good job with all the material about angled/ringed drivers. I have been listening to the HD800 for the last 2 weeks and I really dont expect these or for that matter any headphones to reproduce a "out of head experience" ever.  I think you would be better off selling all your headphone gear and buying a good pair of speakers, real amplifier, and a turntable. 

post #29 of 57

You just need $3000 for the real out of head experience, it's called Realiser.

post #30 of 57
Quote:
Originally Posted by zigy626 View Post

Personally I would never expect a "out of head experience" from a headphone. IMO no headphone would ever be able to provide the amazing 3D soundstage a speaker can put out. You can buy a $5000 amplifier but its not going to do anything for you if you are using it to power headphones. Listening to music through a headphone is not natural. The marketing team at Sennheiser did a good job with all the material about angled/ringed drivers. I have been listening to the HD800 for the last 2 weeks and I really dont expect these or for that matter any headphones to reproduce a "out of head experience" ever.  I think you would be better off selling all your headphone gear and buying a good pair of speakers, real amplifier, and a turntable. 

Well speaker's aren't the most natural either, and definitely not w/ a turntable.

 

Have you heard binaural recordings?  Those are perhaps the most out of head artificial experience I have ever encountered, almost scary how real they sound.

 

Check out the doorknock at the bottom of this test site

 

http://www.audiocheck.net/soundtests_headphones.php

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