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CD Players - Remember Them? - Page 3

post #31 of 42

Quote:
Originally Posted by StudioSound View Post

If it sounds different, it's doing some kind of DSP and is no longer bit-perfect. Or your system settings were not configured for bit-perfect output, and it has done that for you.

Actually, all DSP functions are disabled.  Bit-perfect data is being sent to the DAC.  

 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Golfnutz View Post

 

Maybe Studio, your system isn't that revealing to hear the differences.

Studio, what systems have you tried these after market players on?  Are you speaking from personal experience?  Or are you speaking theoretically?

 

post #32 of 42

Just performed an experiment and I don't really understand the results. I have a cd that skips due to scratches. I burned a couple tracks both with secure ripping turned on and off. The secure ripping showed a ton of errors on the disk. The curious thing was when I played it back, it sounded just fine, other odd thing is, it didn't skip at all either, even with all the errors. I will say though on one of the tracks it (dbpoweramp) was able to fix all of the errors (or at least it said it did). On the other track it wasn't able to, so I can see the advantage of using secure ripping but kind of wonder what the real advantage is, when the results of playing a track with known errors is inaudible (to me at least). I admit I wasn't listening to them through my high-end system, so it is possible there were some anomalys I just didn't notice. Just thinking this whole digital audio thing is really fun, but really hard to understand at the same time.

post #33 of 42
Quote:
Originally Posted by HPiper View Post

Just performed an experiment and I don't really understand the results. I have a cd that skips due to scratches. I burned a couple tracks both with secure ripping turned on and off. The secure ripping showed a ton of errors on the disk. The curious thing was when I played it back, it sounded just fine, other odd thing is, it didn't skip at all either, even with all the errors.
Depending on how you have dBpoweramp configured, it can interpolate data for unrecoverable frames, which should help reduce (or eliminate) the audibility of errors depending on how many frames in a row have problems. Or even if you were not interpolating, it may have been able to read more of the disc than a CD player could get in one pass.

A CD player will not do this, so that's why you hear it skipping.

What interpolation means, is that if the original data was:
12345
and the CD was damaged in such a way that it could only read
1-3-5
It would "guess" (interpolate)
12345

Of course that's not exactly how digital audio works, and it's a lot more complex than that, but while interpolation is most likely not going to be correct, it's probably going to be a lot better than skipping, but less ideal than a perfect rip.

Quote:
Originally Posted by HPiper View Post

I will say though on one of the tracks it (dbpoweramp) was able to fix all of the errors (or at least it said it did). On the other track it wasn't able to, so I can see the advantage of using secure ripping but kind of wonder what the real advantage is, when the results of playing a track with known errors is inaudible (to me at least).
Well it seems like you got "lucky" and were left with a playable result - when I have had that happen in the past, it didn't sound as bad as a CD player skipping, but didn't sound right either.
post #34 of 42

Well as a further note, and this is kind of funny. I also ripped the same cd using windows media player and it didn't say a word about any problems. So at least with secure ripping you know there ARE problems, audible or not. To me that makes it a preferable method of handling my music.

post #35 of 42
Thread Starter 

Well I have been busy listening to Audirvana and Amarra as well as my Sugden CD player. The Mac Pro is being put through my Meier Audio StageDAC as is the CD player, so the only part of the CD player being used is the transport.

 

Right now the CD player is ahead.

 

I have read carefully what has been written. I do have a very long experience of audio systems, but I am not very sophisticated in my knowledge of digital recording and playback techniques.

 

It might be that the CD player is ahead simply because of auto-suggestion. I would love to set up a big double blind test thing but this would require quite a lot of work :)

 

Audirvana and Amarra make significant alterations to the sound. I might write an article about my experiences with this if I get the time. That would be after I try out the other sound processors available for the Mac. I use each one until the trial period is complete.

 

Compared with Audirvana and Amarra iTunes sounds a bit sludgy (it's a technical term) however iTunes retains a better coherence than either Audirvana and Amarra. Amarra provides terrific stereo imaging, a very clean sound, but it is, I think, thinning out the sound, all the instruments sound a bit more slender than they should be. Amarra sounds a bit like the classic Naim sound to me. Audirvana reproduces a lot of the expression in the playing, really striking with chamber music. Sugden CD player transport is like iTunes "de-sludged". Sugden CD player has the essential coherence in tact (which Audirvana and Amarra both weaken), Sugden CD player has terrific stereo imaging, Sugden CD player has excellent expression. Nearest competitor is Audirvana right now.

 

All music listened to is classical. Mostly chamber music but some orchestral (Debussy and Ravel).

 

Edited by p a t r i c k - 3/28/13 at 8:38pm
post #36 of 42
This discussion is very interesting, but far over my head and I know Im about to ask a dumb question, but I feel strangely compelled. My audiophilia is based around a very reliable and adored Meridian CDP. How does its mechanism compare less well to the flimsy drive units you find on any computer I've ever seen. I wouldn't trust them to reproduce an exact copy of the disk? Could someone give me an idiot's guide as to why cheap computer hardware is better at reading information for storage purposes than a dedicated CDP for replay purposes? Surely the software is only as good as the hardware reading it?
Cheers smily_headphones1.gif
post #37 of 42

The structural integrity of the CD tray plays a smaller part in the sound.  The 1s and 0s get converted the same in both devices most of the time.  Heck, even a moving car can play a CD with a flimsy CD tray wink_face.gif.
 

post #38 of 42

So...based on this ongoing discussion....Here is the question I've been debating:

 

Using the same CD, The same amp/dac (Icon HDP) and same quality phones....will a "cheap" CDP sound the "same" as a Class A or B CDP? Ripping a copy(EAC)of that CD with same setup......will that sound better than either of the other two options?

 

If you were dead set on using a CDP....do you upgrade the DAC to the most you can afford? Or do you buy the "best" CDP?

post #39 of 42
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by mrteal View Post

So...based on this ongoing discussion....Here is the question I've been debating:

 

Using the same CD, The same amp/dac (Icon HDP) and same quality phones....will a "cheap" CDP sound the "same" as a Class A or B CDP? Ripping a copy(EAC)of that CD with same setup......will that sound better than either of the other two options?

 

If you were dead set on using a CDP....do you upgrade the DAC to the most you can afford? Or do you buy the "best" CDP?

 

I remember when CDs first arrived in the 80s. There was a significant debate over whether different CD players made any difference. At that time of course, the CD player and DAC were usually sold as a single unit.

 

Personally I've always thought that CD transports don't make any difference as long as all is okay with them. However I just don't know what processing takes place before the signal gets to the DAC.

post #40 of 42

I still prefer listening to my favourite CD`s on a cd player rather than from PC, but things are slowly changing... :)

post #41 of 42
Ok. Thanks for the reply. I must admit that I have the same attitude/preference to CD over computer that older listeners had to CD over vinyl. Still, the world moves on and who knows where ill go when the Meridian finally dies...
post #42 of 42

I always like reading these threads. There are always knowledgeable talks about Jitter and methods of getting sound from a computer to a DAC. I actually use both systems. I feel in the end CD may be better. It could be just that I like the DA converter in my CD player. There is defiantly an ease of use with computers finding files and playing them. I do play some high resolution files on my computer that are vinyl rips recorded at 24 bit/96khz. Still I truly believe a lot of the sound comfort comes from being used to your system. If you listen to a very close and  regular system of digital playback your ears actually adapt and are able to understand the sound display better. It could be thought of swimming in the same pool.

 

For me anyway the CD player just has a more natural sound during playback. I have also found that EQ makes me feel I'm generating artifacts and generating a signal with maybe a little distortion. CD players offer no EQ but seem to change the sound a little just by the electronics used. I just go by what I hear even though it may not be the most scientific method to use.

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