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bookshelf speakers + sub - how well does it work? - Page 4

post #46 of 68
I think your problem lay in the Cerwin Vega. They're typically built for spl, not fast response or distortion. Cabinet design is also half the game.
post #47 of 68
Quote:
Originally posted by ooheadsoo
I think your problem lay in the Cerwin Vega. They're typically built for spl, not fast response or distortion. Cabinet design is also half the game.
yes I believe thats true.
post #48 of 68
If you're gonna get a sub for a music system, you're just going to have to shell out the extra green to get a good one. Otherwise, don't bother. It took me awhile to pick a sub. Originally, I wanted to spend less than $700. But in the end, I shelled out the extra moola so to get a Von Schweikert VR-S/1. It's a very fast and musical sub, worth every penny. Funny thought though, my speakers have become the least expensive component in my system. Even the sub cost alot more.

This hobby is nuts. Now I feel like maybe I need to upgrade my monitors. And start the whole cycle all over again. LOL
post #49 of 68
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally posted by darkclouds
If you're gonna get a sub for a music system, you're just going to have to shell out the extra green to get a good one. Otherwise, don't bother. It took me awhile to pick a sub. Originally, I wanted to spend less than $700. But in the end, I shelled out the extra moola so to get a Von Schweikert VR-S/1. It's a very fast and musical sub, worth every penny. Funny thought though, my speakers have become the least expensive component in my system. Even the sub cost alot more.

This hobby is nuts. Now I feel like maybe I need to upgrade my monitors. And start the whole cycle all over again. LOL
You're right, it's nuts. I just got an email back from the guys that make my speakers and they said not to bother with a sub. They made one for about 10 grand CDN that they feel is up to the job of matching the speed of their speakers, but otherwise, until you hit 5 grand, i think they called them 'toys' for HT.

they suggested i just get their fullsize speakers, and although they gave me a great price, i don't think that i want to spend another 5 thousand dollars.

post #50 of 68
That’s BS; I guess they want to sell you speakers, huh?

You can get a little Velodyne HGS 10 for around a grand or take a ook at the HSU VTF-2 for $450. Both are very good subs in their price category. Free in-home trial with the 30 money back guarantee....

$0.02
post #51 of 68
Quote:
Originally posted by tomek
but otherwise, until you hit 5 grand, i think they called them 'toys' for HT.
I think that is a very inflated, self serving statement on their part. Unless they are refering to true Subwoofers in the strict usage of the word for enclosures that do indeed plumb below woofers.

My monitors were $2350CDN, while the least expensive sub from the same manufacturer (ATC) is about $1200CDN. I do feel fortunate as I think this is a very reasonable ratio. And although not purchased yet, im certain the sub is a good match in speed and quality for my speakers which are rather quick themselves.
post #52 of 68
Two brands that are a must if you're in the market for a good sub:

SV Subwoofers

Hsu Research

Both offer outstanding price/performance ratios - Hsu has a better "budget" selection (SVS's cheapest starts at $600), but both clearly beat the pants off their competition at their respective price points - tight, deep, authoritative bass, equally at ease with music and HT. Plus they both offer nice satisfaction guarantees (45 day for SVS, 30 for Hsu).
post #53 of 68
Quote:
You're right, it's nuts. I just got an email back from the guys that make my speakers and they said not to bother with a sub. They made one for about 10 grand CDN that they feel is up to the job of matching the speed of their speakers, but otherwise, until you hit 5 grand, i think they called them 'toys' for HT.
I think they're right. I think that even with their 10 grand sub you'll still lose a bit in terms of soundstage and integration. I honestly think that REL is probably the only sub that has a chance of giving you improvements that outweigh the negatives.

I think that if you absolutely love the sound you're getting you're better off upgrading to the their fuller range speakers. If the speakers do indeed go down to 41hz, your room might boost the bass down to about 35-38hz which should be more than enough. Don't be too upset by your Paradigm's performance. Yes the Monitor 5 goes lower but keep in mind that it may be more bass that you're hearing and not natural bass. You've done well by choosing other factors such as resolution, soundstaging, and coherence over bass. Not to sound deflating but sometimes you just got to accept your speakers deficiency and be romanced by its strengths.

But that's not saying that you can't get moresubjective bass output. How far out do you have your speakers? I think I asked you once about speaker distances and seating distances and I never got around to reading it.
post #54 of 68
Thread Starter 
They are a good 5 five clear of any walls. The room has an L shape, so once they are clear of those walls, they are really in the larger part of the living area, not just that room.

The bass isn't terrible, but for certain kinds of music, there is a punch that is just lacking.
post #55 of 68
A submarine sandwich isn't going to do anything to improve the bass on your speakers, even if it's one of those gourmet baked subs. However eating a sub can make you happier and let you enjoy your music more.
post #56 of 68
Tomek. Your room sounds like it's pretty big overall so a lot of that bass might be sucked into open bass. When you moved it close to the wall is the bass good enough for you? If so then keep playing around with speaker positioning. Move the speakers closer together (7-8ft?). Everyone has to make a compromise between bass reinforcement and soundstage and clarity it's just one of the things with speaker setups. So find a point that provides the best compromise and make amends
post #57 of 68
Here is an interesting link regarding the use of a subwoofer. I am looking for speaker solutions for low power tube amps and was given this info from someone on Audio Asylum. It make a lot of sense if you read it.


http://www.meta-gizmo.com/Tri/sunfire2.html
post #58 of 68
I think sunfire subs are notorious for not being very fast and musical. Part of the problem is the size, though placement is always a factor. Sunfires use both isobarik design and linkwitz-transform to achieve the bass extension, but I think the woofers they use are both too small and maybe not the best quality. The amplification may also be suspect. More info on Linkwitz transform can be found at www.linkwitzlab.com.

I think the basic concept is to use a sealed box for good Q and phase angle/group delay, then equalize to get flat response, and throw in a 1000+watt amplifier to get around the efficiency problem. The goal is for a normal sized sub in sealed configuration to be able to achieve bottom octave, but perhaps not quite sunfire size, which could be part of the sunfire problem.
post #59 of 68
tomek,
i agree with everyone in the sense that it takes some time (sometimes a long time) to integrate a sub in with your speakers (towers or bookshelves). i can't tell you how many weeks i adjusted back and forth, and fooled with the crossovers until i found the right setting for music, and the right settings for movies. i have some very simple Infinity Entra 1's paired with a Klipsch RSW-12 reference sub all run by an Arcam A-75 integrated amp. i thought i would have needed to upgrade my Infinity bookshelves once i bought the very pricey Klipsch and the Arcam, but i was wrong. they just brought out so much more of the Infinities than i ever imagined possible. the point there is that your system components and or amplification of course play a major role in how well everything meshes together. also, one of the main reasons as to why my setup worked so well together was because of the Klipsch sub. it is a sealed deisgn with one active driver and one passive one. compared to all the other ported designs i auditioned (Velodyne included), the sealed Klipsch throws out an incredible amount of clean accurate bass, which works very well with both movies and music. it is funny how you observed the Velodyne as i also made the exact same obervations; and they were being run from some very high end Krell equipment. the Velodyne HGS 18 i think(?) just sounded to uncontrolled and too floppy. i've also heard it on many other systems and have come up with the same results. but a lot of people like them for movies and their huge amounts of bloated bass apparently sounds good for explosions. but that's about it, imo. based on what i know about speakers and room interactions, i think that if your room is relatively small, bookshelves are the way to go. when i first bought my Kllipsch, i though it would benefit more by pairing it with my Kef Q5 towers...but my room is simply too small for that combo...that combo will be used for another day when i can move my system into a bigger room. but for now, my bookshelves certainly integrate very well with the Klipsch RSW-12. i think if you can find a very accurate sub (a sealed enclosure, imo), you will be ok with trying to integrate whatever speakers you buy. i also think that if a challenge is presented to you in trying to integrate a combo, that that challenge not only helps you learn a great deal about your particular system (the strengths and weaknesses), but it is also a fun process...at least i think it is good luck and let us know what you end up getting; even if it is months from now.
post #60 of 68
Whoa hey, first post in this message board after lurking here for a long while.

Let's say I'm living in a college apartment next year. I want a pair of speakers that I can hook up to my computer and a dedicated CD player. I play a lot of music. I have Klipsch ProMedia 2.1s hooked up to my GameTheater XP. The speakers are cheaply made and there is now static when I change volumes.

So I have set sail towards a proper stereo. I'm going to pick up a m-Audio Revolution for music purposes. But, I know most people here cry at the sight of compressed audio, so let's just think about the CD-playing aspects. I already have a CD player for this thing, so all I need is a receiver and a pair of bookshelves. I've been leaning towards getting a classic Marantz stereo receiver from the 70s. Something like a 2245 or up. I've heard how they are built so well and still sound amazing. And come on, they look so classy. It's also my understanding that they would be powerful enough to drive a good pair of bookshelves so there's no need for an amp.

Hoping that going classic Marantz isn't too much of a mistake, I have been leaning towards the Axiom M3ti or the M22ti. Keeping in mind what I listen to (Radiohead, Sigur Ros, Mogwai, GYBE, and a slew of indie and experimental rock), would it be wiser to lean towards the M22ti or is the performance not worth it to justify the extra $125? Keep in mind of my sad student budget so the extra money isn't just a day's pay or anything.

Am I totally off what I should be looking at?
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