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Headphones with good and FAST bass? (for electronic music) - Page 3

post #31 of 55
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Originally Posted by Beagle View Post

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Originally Posted by warrenpchi View Post

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Originally Posted by money4me247 View Post

I would agree that the M100 is great if you are specifically looking for a closed, portable set of headphones that does bass very well and your budget extends to $300. Ultrasone Pro 900 is another solid alternative that the price.

 

I am curious if anyone who has heard both recently can offer their comparisons.

 

LOL, you don't remember?  biggrin.gif

 

You obviously have heard them since you recommend them, so why not offer your comparisons? I would love to hear them, as I have not heard either of these headphones.

 

Yeah, that's what I was wondering.  I mean, I generally don't remember every nuance of every pair of cans I've heard... but I have a rough mental image of their signatures.

 

Personally, I'd say go with the Mad Dogs, especially with the new Alpha Pads as they are ridiculously comfortable.

post #32 of 55

lol @ warrenpchi & beagle:

 

I personally preferred the M100s, but I know I am biased as I owned the M100 for 60 days vs demo-ing the Pro 900 for a few songs. Sure, you can have a rough mental image of the headphones, but honestly, when you do a real back & forth A/B comparison using the same source, you will realize how biased your "rough mental image" is. Also, I really think that your ears adjust to the sound signature after you use the same pair for a while. I kind of feel like that is why so many comparison impressions are so different.

 

I think it is more valuable to hear from people who were able to sit down and do extensive direct A/B comparisons rather than people who heard both.

post #33 of 55

For whatever reason there are a bunch of returns on Amazon on those M100's. These are sold as used by Amazon. Some people may not have been happy with them.

Just saying.

 

Putting in my .02$ I would vote for the Ultrasone Pro900's at their current price. Great set of cans that really capture the lower register well. They do work well with electronic music of all sorts. 

My preference would be for the LCD-2's but they are out of your price range.

post #34 of 55
Quote:
Originally Posted by money4me247 View Post

 

Sure, you can have a rough mental image of the headphones, but honestly, when you do a real back & forth A/B comparison using the same source, you will realize how biased your "rough mental image" is.

 

I think it is more valuable to hear from people who were able to sit down and do extensive direct A/B comparisons rather than people who heard both.

 

LOL, no.  biggrin.gif

 

If the rough mental image was derived from a cursory experience at a Best Buy listening station, I could see how it could be both inaccurate and unmemorable.  But if someone has owned (or otherwise extensively used) a pair of cans, then he/she easily develops fairly accurate and complex impressions over that period of ownership.  I used "rough mental image" euphemistically above. 

 

And considering that many of us tend to test our cans against various signal path components over the course of ownership experience, we also have a fairly good idea of how their signature varies with different sources, amplification, etc.  It's not nearly as sketchy an impression as one might think.  wink.gif

 

So given that, I'm pretty sure a direct and on-the-spot A/B is not necessary in order to form valid comparative impressions.  Going by that logic, anyone who does not have both units on hand - regardless of prior experience with both units - is inherently flawed in their statements.  And I can tell you that - among the more experienced Head-Fi members I interact with - that is rarely the case.

 

Believe me when I tell you that - over time - you'll be able to easily distinguish between a headphones' obvious and subtle differences after having given them a proper audition.  And this impression It's a natural outcome of more experience.  smile.gif

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by money4me247 View Post

Also, I really think that your ears adjust to the sound signature after you use the same pair for a while. I kind of feel like that is why so many comparison impressions are so different.

 

Well, impressions are different mainly because:  (A) we all have different ears; and (B) we have different preferences.

 

I think that - as you add more headphones to your collection - you'll realize that most of us do switch off headphones from time-to-time.  It's also not uncommon to opt for a lesser used headphone (just for the heck of it) in order to keep our ears fresh.  I myself tend to rotate cans and IEMs every 3~4 days or so.  And of course, taking this hobby seriously, I tend to keep some notes on each units' signature and presentation.

 

In addition, many of us keep a pair of headphones around to use as a palate cleanser and a comparative reference in between listening sessions.  I myself keep a T50RP for this purpose, though I've recently been thinking of adding a 7520 as well.

 

BTW, and this is strictly IMO, I'm not sure having demoed a unit with a few songs is enough to declare the Pro 900 as "a solid alternative" - but hey that's just me.  smile.gif

post #35 of 55

warrenpchi

 

I'm glad you took the time to share your opinion, but I would have to disagree.

 

When you audition to a pair of headphones, you are either comparing them to a "mental expectation" of how you think the song should sound or to your "memory" of how a previous pair sounded. That is inherently biased. Then people love to throw out subjective declarations of how great/bad different aspects of the song signature is that is relative to a mental expectation/memory that is not a constant. They also have their own inherent biases on the type of sound signature that they are looking for. I really believe that when you do a legit direct A/B, a lot of times your biases are revealed, and your "subjective opinions of one headphones to a random personal reference point" turns into an "objective comparison between two headphones that anyone else can go duplicate." I am more comfortable with results that can be duplicated with all variables held the same.

 

All I can base my opinions on are my experiences, and in my experience, I found that people often have vastly different perceptions of how headphones sound (regardless of their "experience/expertise/ownership/audiophileness"). However, when you put two headphones next to someone (regardless of their "audiophileness/noobiness") and make them A/B through the same 30 sec portions with both, then the opinions end up converging

 

I just tend to mistrust the opinions of people here who seem to enjoy going around putting down other people's opinions/thoughts and flaunting how personally experienced/knowledgeable they are. Even professional sound engineers that design headphones rely on comparison tests & consult peers rather than just rely on their own personal "mental image" of how things should sound. The fact is finding the perfect sound signature for yourself is very subjective/personal, and the only way to accurately/objectively describe the sound signature of headphones is through objective comparisons to reference points.

post #36 of 55

Okay wait, first of all...

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by money4me247 View Post

 

I really believe that when you do a legit direct A/B, a lot of times your biases are revealed, and your "subjective opinions of one headphones to a random personal reference point" turns into a "subjective comparison between two headphones"

 

FTFY.  smile.gif  One cannot (and should not) make the assumption that different people will perceive differences between headphones in the same exact way.  Anytime you introduce human perception into the mix, you're talking about a subjective viewpoint.  There is absolutely no escaping that.  Having said that...

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by money4me247 View Post

I just tend to mistrust the opinions of people here who seem to enjoy going around putting down other people's opinions/thoughts and flaunting how personally experienced/knowledgeable they are.

 

Well that would just be wrong in any circumstance, or at the very least quite unkind right?  In my time here at Head-Fi, I've come to learn that Rule #1 is don't be a jerk.  I hope you notice that even though I disagree with you, I have been civil.  And I just want to throw out there that, even though you disagree with me, I have noticed that you have been civil in kind.  This is the way discussions should be.  smile.gif

 

However, I've also come to realize that Rule #2 is don't rec or trash gear that you haven't owned or had reasonable experience with.  Actually, the exact words (from the Posting Guidelines) are:  "Please don't recommend equipment you don't own or otherwise don't have a reasonable amount of familiarity with.  Likewise, please avoid trashing equipment you haven't used or aren't familiar with."  And on that note, I think it might have been a little premature to say that the Pro 900 was "a solid alternative" after a brief demo with a few songs, IMO of course.  wink.gif

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by money4me247 View Post

The fact is finding the perfect sound signature for yourself is very subjective/personal, and the only way to accurately/objectively describe the sound signature of headphones is through objective comparisons to reference points.

 

How is a human being - ANY human being - going to make an objective comparison through an A/B?  It will always be a subjective comparison.  Unless you teach the dude how to read graphs, any data obtained through listening will be subjective.  But even graphs won't tell him everything he needs to know about how it sounds.  And that's even assuming that he has a consistent way to correlate graphs with what his expectations are.

 

At some point, OP is just going to have to experience for himself.  When he does, he'll be able to form his own opinions.  Short of that, it should be noted that subjective consensus communicated anecdotally does have some worth.

post #37 of 55
@warrenpchi: I understand what you are trying to say, but I just think that comparisons are more valuable because if you only experienced one pair of headphones, you can use comparisons as a reference to see how the sound signature changes and if that is the type of change you are looking for. This opinion isn't really too out there, right?

 

Quote:

Originally Posted by warrenpchi View Post

FTFY.  smile.gif  One cannot (and should not) make the assumption that different people will perceive differences between headphones in the same exact way.  Anytime you introduce human perception into the mix, you're talking about a subjective viewpoint.  There is absolutely no escaping that.  Having said that...

 

How is a human being - ANY human being - going to make an objective comparison through an A/B?  It will always be a subjective comparison.  Unless you teach the dude how to read graphs, any data obtained through listening will be subjective.  But even graphs won't tell him everything he needs to know about how it sounds.  And that's even assuming that he has a consistent way to correlate graphs with what his expectations are.

 

Yes yes yes to all the above, everything is subjective w/ headphones as it's the brain that is processing the sound. however, when you ground the experience with reference points, other people can retrace your footsteps. while some people might say the Momentum is very colored with a bass emphasis & other people say the Momentum is very neutral, both those groups of people would agree that the M100 is much bassier than the Momentums. good way imo to talk about headphones in a less subjective way. very helpful to someone trying to shop for their perfect pair.

 

Quote:

Originally Posted by warrenpchi View Post

Well that would just be wrong in any circumstance, or at the very least quite unkind right?  In my time here at Head-Fi, I've come to learn that Rule #1 is don't be a jerk.  I hope you notice that even though I disagree with you, I have been civil.  And I just want to throw out there that, even though you disagree with me, I have noticed that you have been civil in kind.  This is the way discussions should be.  smile.gif

 

yay!!! thank god you are not trying to pick a fight. people have different opinions. discussion good. fighting bad. =)

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by warrenpchi View Post

However, I've also come to realize that Rule #2 is don't rec or trash gear that you haven't owned or had reasonable experience with.  Actually, the exact words (from the Posting Guidelines) are:  "Please don't recommend equipment you don't own or otherwise don't have a reasonable amount of familiarity with.  Likewise, please avoid trashing equipment you haven't used or aren't familiar with."  And on that note, I think it might have been a little premature to say that the Pro 900 was "a solid alternative" after a brief demo with a few songs, IMO of course.  wink.gif

 

When I listened to the Ultrasone Pro 900, I thought there was a definite bass-emphasis and the mids seemed recessed to me. I personally thought they are v-shaped. I didn't get a sense that they were very bright or harsh/sibilant like some other people commented about them. The Pro 900 did not have any glaring flaws when I tried them, so solid alternative lol. All of these opinions are dependent on my personal reference point that you may not share. Also, I would not be comfortable saying exactly how the Pro 900 sounds different from the M100 without doing a direct A/B. I would hypothesize that the M100 was more balanced and had deeper bass extension, but that is something I would need to direct A/B to confirm. I just listened through a few electronic/trance/house/dubsteppy songs on the Pro 900 and it sounded very baller, so I would say that they are a solid alternative to the M100s which I thought really shined with that kind of music. lol. if you are looking for portable closed bassy headphones, I would say M100 & Pro 900 are a good place to start. however, I wouldn't be comfortable going into depth how they are different like I did above, because I feel like those thoughts are just a subjective biased opinion and I would need to spend more time doing a real comparison between the two to really say anything more about the Pro 900 than they are a solid pair of basshead headphones.
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by warrenpchi View Post

At some point, OP is just going to have to experience for himself.  When he does, he'll be able to form his own opinions.  Short of that, it should be noted that subjective consensus communicated anecdotally does have some worth.

 

yes!!!! +1,000. however, when someone asks on a forum for opinions/advice, obvi it's not too helpful to tell OP to go demo. giving comparisons of headphones, so OP can listen to only a few of the headphones and then decide which headphone to move onto trying depending on what he is looking for in the sound signature and what the comparisons say. Example: tried MDR-1R, thought not bassy enough (eliminate Momentum & AKG K550 d/t comparison reviews), move onto M100, Pro 900.

 

@ OP: I don't want to continue to derail this thread by too much, but basically, for someone looking for really nice portable closed basshead headphones (IMO), I would start with the M100 & Pro 900. I personally prefer the M100, but I also spent more time with the M100, so my opinion is a bit biased :) For the M100, I would recommend watching out for comfort issues & for the Pro 900, a lot of people talk about the treble being too much/sharp/harsh or something, so I would watch out for that. Those "cons" are subjective, so don't eliminate headphones based on other people's concern. Just make sure when you try them, those things don't bother you :) g'luck & happy headphone hunting

post #38 of 55
Quote:
Originally Posted by warrenpchi View Post

 

How is a human being - ANY human being - going to make an objective comparison through an A/B?  It will always be a subjective comparison.  Unless you teach the dude how to read graphs, any data obtained through listening will be subjective.  But even graphs won't tell him everything he needs to know about how it sounds.  And that's even assuming that he has a consistent way to correlate graphs with what his expectations are.

 

At some point, OP is just going to have to experience for himself.  When he does, he'll be able to form his own opinions.  Short of that, it should be noted that subjective consensus communicated anecdotally does have some worth.

 

I agree with this. When we simply compare one headphone to another, without a proper point of reference (which should be our experience with live sounds), we are just choosing flavours. Like ice cream. Whatever sounds good at the time. What we like.

 

Objective opinion would be that everyone agrees, for example, that a headphone has a slight bass lift or treble rolloff. Subjective opinions would be whether that is a good thing or a bad thing...the preference of the individual listener.

post #39 of 55
Quote:
Originally Posted by Carlsan View Post

For whatever reason there are a bunch of returns on Amazon on those M100's. These are sold as used by Amazon. Some people may not have been happy with them.

Just saying.

 

Putting in my .02$ I would vote for the Ultrasone Pro900's at their current price. Great set of cans that really capture the lower register well. They do work well with electronic music of all sorts. 

My preference would be for the LCD-2's but they are out of your price range.

It is most likely the comfort issues that come with the M100...such as it making the outer tips of your ears red and burning.

 

this only goes away after a couple months use...I could see why people would be returning them, It's sad because they are great headphones. VMODA is releasing XL cushions soon that are deeper.

post #40 of 55
Quote:
Originally Posted by money4me247 View Post

@warrenpchi: I understand what you are trying to say, but I just think that comparisons are more valuable because if you only experienced one pair of headphones, you can use comparisons as a reference to see how the sound signature changes and if that is the type of change you are looking for. This opinion isn't really too out there, right?

 

Well the very nature of a comparison requires that someone have impressions of two or more headphones - it would be impossible if one has only experienced one pair of headphones.

 

And yes, comparing impressions of multiple headphones is an integral part of the hobby.  I'm just saying that one doesn't necessarily need both units right there and right then in order to do that.  Memory - especially sensory memory - is a marvelous thing.  And depending on how strong that memory is, it can serve as both a valid and accurate reference point within one's own framework of experiences.  For example, I don't lose the ability to recall or describe my Q701 just because it's not currently on my ears.  smile.gif

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by money4me247 View Post

 

When I listened to the Ultrasone Pro 900, I thought there was a definite bass-emphasis and the mids seemed recessed to me. I personally thought they are v-shaped. I didn't get a sense that they were very bright or harsh/sibilant like some other people commented about them. The Pro 900 did not have any glaring flaws when I tried them, so solid alternative lol.  if you are looking for portable closed bassy headphones, I would say M100 & Pro 900 are a good place to start.

 

Finally!  Man, getting impressions out of you is like pulling teeth!  biggrin.gif

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Beagle View Post

 

When we simply compare one headphone to another, without a proper point of reference (which should be our experience with live sounds), we are just choosing flavours.

 

Good point, though that gets kinda tough with electronic music.  I've never encountered a actual wub wub out in the wild.  wink.gif

post #41 of 55

Quote:

Originally Posted by warrenpchi View Post

Well the very nature of a comparison requires that someone have impressions of two or more headphones - it would be impossible if one has only experienced one pair of headphones.

 

lol... I think you may have completely missed my point & we might have been talking past each other. kinda funny lol!

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by warrenpchi View Post

Memory - especially sensory memory - is a marvelous thing.  And depending on how strong that memory is, it can serve as both a valid and accurate reference point within one's own framework of experiences.  For example, I don't lose the ability to recall or describe my Q701 just because it's not currently on my ears.  smile.gif

 

 

hahah sensory memory is actually a lot less reliable than you would imagine. It is inherently biased and very susceptible to being fooled by things you wouldn't expect.

post #42 of 55
Quote:
Originally Posted by money4me247 View Post

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by warrenpchi View Post

Memory - especially sensory memory - is a marvelous thing.  And depending on how strong that memory is, it can serve as both a valid and accurate reference point within one's own framework of experiences.  For example, I don't lose the ability to recall or describe my Q701 just because it's not currently on my ears.  smile.gif

 

 

hahah sensory memory is actually a lot less reliable than you would imagine. It is inherently biased and very susceptible to being fooled by things you wouldn't expect.

 

Well we're not talking about what a witness might have glanced out of the corner of their eye a few months back.  We're talking about sensory input that is being intensely focused upon and scrutinized, repeatedly, over a long period of time.  There is a difference.  If what your saying is true, then all impressions that are not gathered on the spot are faulty.  And we know that just isn't true.

 

Also, it is worth noting that those with ear training - or at the very least musical training - tend to perform better at auditory recollection.  I'll grant you that not everyone in the general population is capable of recollecting the nuances of what they have heard.  But amongst audiophiles, there does tend to be a better overall track record of such things.

post #43 of 55

Hi guys! Would I be lucky enough to find somebody that may have listened to Audio-Technica ATH-A900X and M-100 or Ultrasones 900 PRO, I've just narrowed my search to these choices and I wonder which on to buy....I'm going ot be using them without an amp. I need as detailed and wide sound as possible in the MID-HIGH range and BASS as much as possible, thumpy deep rumbling. Thank you!!

post #44 of 55

To the OP:  Planar Magnetics (aka 'Orthodynamics') have the fastest and most tonally distinct bass I've heard.  My experience does not cover a great many mid/hi-fi dynamics, however.  I went from the HD650 to the HE-500.

 

If I had a free $300 I'd get the Mad Dogs without even blinking.  They will be my portable can as soon as I get a portable amp worthy of them.  I've not heard them, but to hear them favorably compared to HiFiMan and Audez'e planars makes it a no-brainer.

 

IMHO.

post #45 of 55
Quote:
Originally Posted by disastermouse View Post

To the OP:  Planar Magnetics (aka 'Orthodynamics') have the fastest and most tonally distinct bass I've heard.  My experience does not cover a great many mid/hi-fi dynamics, however.  I went from the HD650 to the HE-500.

 

If I had a free $300 I'd get the Mad Dogs without even blinking.  They will be my portable can as soon as I get a portable amp worthy of them.  I've not heard them, but to hear them favorably compared to HiFiMan and Audez'e planars makes it a no-brainer.

 

IMHO.

 

+1!!! Mad Dog is trully worth it, tested so many headphones around the same price and none can compare. Even felt the lcd2 rev2 was to close to be worth having aswell, so decided to stick with Mad Dog and DT880 and he400 as a open cans.
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