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ADVICE: How to make the jump into the (not anymore) high-end? – join if you enjoy loooong reading… - Page 3

post #31 of 50
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by obobskivich View Post

Regarding what headphones you should consider, I have three different opinions based on reading your introductory post, and you'll have to decide which one you like (and I really have no emotional investment in any of them over another - get what you want, because as the saying goes, if you don't love it in the store, you won't wear it on the street). (...)

 

 

First things first, thank you for the amazing reply/reviews =)

 

Regarding Grados: For what I read lately they seem to have the biggest love/hate sound of all times on Head-Fi. That alone would made me never order one without previously listen to it, which unfortunately I can't do around here. I also see many people complaining about them not being comfortable at all, and although it's obviously a personal taste I don't see the same problem with the other brands that often. Besides I've just noticed the SR225i are on-the-ear phones, and I'd have to mod them if I wanted around-the-ear, which - as I stated - I'd prefer not to do. Of course I'd be tempted to buy them despite all if they were astonishing better cans them the other ones, but that doesn't seem the case. For what I get, at this (and higher) price point most cans are good enough, just different flavors of good. Thus, I prefer not to take the risk. My point is I'm by no means saying they are bad phones or that they aren't worth buying; they just don't seem to fit well in my case.

 

Sennheiser: It's indeed a shame those prices were increased so much recently (can't believe people used to buy them for $250!). What makes me consider them despite being much more expensive than other "mid-fi flagships" is indeed their signature, which I'm really curious to listen to now. I wouldn't even think about them if they were like an improved [put any cans here] for twice the price. But the thing is that (according to most people here) there seems to be no simillar sounding cans at a lower price point. As you said "you won't get their sound anywhere else", so that's why I'm considering them.

 

AKG: Wow, I wasn't expecting this recommendation. Before I wrote my post I read lots of threads/reviews, and so I had some idea about what people would suggest me. I obviously thought about the Senns. I knew there would be some HE-400, I was also expecting some DT880 comments (to my surprise no one mentioned them yet though). Even X1 or some Sony. But not the K701. I'll explain: the only experience I've had with AKG was a couple years ago when I was searching for a digital piano to buy, and one store gave me the K240 (if I'm not mistaken) to play them. I recall they were good, although it wouldn't be fair to make a conclusion since I was obviously paying much more attention to the pianos at the time. And since I always though AKGs as studio-grade, professional cans I got really interested in them... until I read this article. For some odd reason now I just can't think about the K701 the same way I did, which isn't good since if I happen to listen to them someday I know I'll be trying to find those flaws! And I hate this! I really try to stay as away as possible from being biased from others opinions, trying my best to read everything with a grain of salt. But we're human after all and everything we read/hear (even this reply to you) end up affecting us someway. And that review hit me in an odd way. That being said, if you really think they're not as stated and will suit my tastes, then I'm willing to order one to hear them myself (by the way, would you recommend ordering the K702 or the Q701?)

 

Finally, I'll try to audition the AE2 this weekend, should be easy to find one.

 

I'm really interested in anything else you could tell about both the K701 and the Senns (for what I get you have/heard the HD600, right?). Specially (or "Especially", I'm not sure) about bad records, forgiveness and such. Thanks again!


Edited by jcdamascenojr - 3/4/13 at 3:10pm
post #32 of 50
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tyll Hertsens View Post

I'll be posting a 580/600/650 review late this week, but I'll offer the spoiler that I think the HD 600 is probably the best Audiophile headphone under $500. 

 

K701 is good, but a bit bright and fatiguing to my ears.

 

Everyone knows my thoughts on Grados. The 225 is one of the best in the line, but sorry, they're just way off.

 

Thanks Tyll! Definitely looking foward to the article, since one of my main doubts is about the differences between the two (if they are that great). From the brands I noted would you agree Senn is the way to go?

 

What about Beyer, Philips or Sony, why didin't anyone mention them? Do you think they're that off in my case?

post #33 of 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by jcdamascenojr View Post

 

Thanks Tyll! Definitely looking foward to the article, since one of my main doubts is about the differences between the two (if they are that great). From the brands I noted would you agree Senn is the way to go?

 

What about Beyer, Philips or Sony, why didin't anyone mention them? Do you think they're that off in my case?


Have to agree with Tyl, I loved the Hd600, but hate the 650 rolleyes.gif. People at meets usually give me questionable looks when I say I highly prefer the 600 to the 650. Find one used for ~240 bucks and build a crack yourself (or dynalo if you like SS) and I think it's the most musical setup money can buy for ~600 bucks. The only thing I feel the hd600 is bad at is fast metal, but you don't listen to those so no problem there.

 

Beyer is pretty famous for being overly bright. Personally I love the Dt990 600 ohm (brightest of the bunch), but I wouldn't recommend any Beyers to anyone. Peeps hate those treble peak.

 

Sony (the current production line) got some coloration that people may like or hate - I'm in the hate camp. Also the low-end models don't do any "magic" and the higher priced model can't compete with the hd600/dt880/q701 and stuff.

 

I've only heard the L1 from Phillips, but I'd pay a bit more and get an used Hd600.

 

My 2cent. Btw good taste on music, Love over gold is my 2nd favourite Dire Straits album after Communique. Telegraph Road is pretty mind blowing on a good rig beyersmile.png


Edited by khaine1711 - 3/4/13 at 8:55am
post #34 of 50
Quote:
Have to agree with Tyl, I loved the Hd600, but hate the 650 rolleyes.gif. People at meets usually give me questionable looks when I say I highly prefer the 600 to the 650. Find one used for ~240 bucks and build a crack yourself (or dynalo if you like SS) and I think it's the most musical setup money can buy for ~600 bucks.

 

This is exactly what I did and I could not be happier with the pairing.  Everything sounds "right" nothing sticks out as unnatural or wrong.  Add a decent DAC and your set.

post #35 of 50
Thread Starter 
Quote:

Originally Posted by khaine1711 View Post
 

Have to agree with Tyl, I loved the Hd600, but hate the 650 rolleyes.gif. People at meets usually give me questionable looks when I say I highly prefer the 600 to the 650. Find one used for ~240 bucks and build a crack yourself (or dynalo if you like SS) and I think it's the most musical setup money can buy for ~600 bucks. The only thing I feel the hd600 is bad at is fast metal, but you don't listen to those so no problem there.

 

Beyer is pretty famous for being overly bright. Personally I love the Dt990 600 ohm (brightest of the bunch), but I wouldn't recommend any Beyers to anyone. Peeps hate those treble peak.

 

Sony (the current production line) got some coloration that people may like or hate - I'm in the hate camp. Also the low-end models don't do any "magic" and the higher priced model can't compete with the hd600/dt880/q701 and stuff.

 

I've only heard the L1 from Phillips, but I'd pay a bit more and get an used Hd600.

 

My 2cent. Btw good taste on music, Love over gold is my 2nd favourite Dire Straits album after Communique. Telegraph Road is pretty mind blowing on a good rig beyersmile.png

 

Thanks. When you say "hate" you really mean hate? I though they were very simillar after all, and that it was just a matter of taste between them. Never though someone would love one and not stand the other... What bothers you about the HD650? Veil? Slow? Bass?

 

Love Over Gold is by far my favorite by them! I'm really looking foward to listen to it on my new cans, can't imagine if they do sound better than on my IEM! I'd probably give Brothers in Arms the second place, but would be a tough one ;)

post #36 of 50
I think the Senns will be a better choice for bad records, they're (for a high end can) forgiving, and that helps some. They will sing with good material, just like the AKG.

I understand and agree with your response on Grado - seems very reasonable.

Regarding variations of the 701 - the K701 are the only ones I've owned. Some say they're all basically the same, others have a tantrum about that and say they're all worlds apart. I'm not sure which side to believe honestly. The 702 and Q have removable cables and reportedly "better" headbands (I never had an issue with the headband), so on that alone I'd consider them. But again - can't speak to any sonic traits.
post #37 of 50

The HD650 is more forgiving than even the Grado SR80i - I think that it's because of all the transgressions in recording that musicians make, hiss, sibilance, and poorly weighted treble are the most appalling.  Lack of dynamics, muddy mid-bass, and buried vocals can be lived with, but bad treble or sibilance just stabs your ears like heartless robot ninjas.  Grado and other 'zingy' cans definitely emphasize that mistake.  To me, it's easier to live with the subdued sound of the HD650 than an unforgiving can.  I love indie and old punk and those DIY recordings do not lend themselves to the 'forced critical listening' that Grados and some other 'zingy' cans provide.  You can listen critically with the HD650 but you're not forced to do it.

 

Here's an example of a recording that can BARELY be enjoyed with HE-500, will punish you with Grados, and is no problem at all for the HD650:

 

post #38 of 50

Here's another one (This HAS to be intentionally done because other songs on this album are recorded competently):

 

 

 

Also:

 

post #39 of 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by jcdamascenojr View Post

 

Thanks. When you say "hate" you really mean hate? I though they were very simillar after all, and that it was just a matter of taste between them. Never though someone would love one and not stand the other... What bothers you about the HD650? Veil? Slow? Bass?

 

Love Over Gold is by far my favorite by them! I'm really looking foward to listen to it on my new cans, can't imagine if they do sound better than on my IEM! I'd probably give Brothers in Arms the second place, but would be a tough one ;)

Yea I do mean hate. It's the combination of slow + laid back + the romantic presentation of the Hd650 that I dislike. The Hd650 has no veil, unless you power it with a cmoy or an ipod, then the sounds turn into a muddy pile - I guess that's what people mean by veil. The 600 is still slow, but it's more neutral than the 650; also a very realistic timbre + seductive mid = wins. 

 

Bear in mind that 80% of my listening is Metal + Classic/Prog Rock, and the rest is Baroque and piano stuff (Chopin + Liszt). I could see how people with different taste in music love the Hd650 (jazz, vocal ... yada yada).

 

//back to the music, I don't really like Brothers in Arms, the only track from that album that I listen to is Your lastest trick.

post #40 of 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by jcdamascenojr View Post

 

 

First things first, thank you for the amazing reply/reviews =)

 

Regarding Grados: For what I read lately they seem to have the biggest love/hate sound of all times on Head-Fi. That alone would made me never order one without previously listen to it, which unfortunately I can't do around here. I also see many people complaining about them not being comfortable at all, and although it's obviously a personal taste I don't see the same problem with the other brands that often. Besides I've just noticed the SR225i are on-the-ear phones, and I'd have to mod them if I wanted around-the-ear, which - as I stated - I'd prefer not to do. Of course I'd be tempted to buy them despite all if they were astonishing better cans them the other ones, but that doesn't seem the case. For what I get, at this (and higher) price point most cans are good enough, just different flavors of good. Thus, I prefer not to take the risk. My point is I'm by no means saying they are bad phones or that they aren't worth buying; they just don't seem to fit well in my case.

 

Sennheiser: It's indeed a shame those prices were increased so much recently (can't believe people used to buy them for $250!). What makes me consider them despite being much more expensive than other "mid-fi flagships" is indeed their signature, which I'm really curious to listen to now. I wouldn't even think about them if they were like an improved [put any cans here] for twice the price. But the thing is that (according to most people here) there seems to be no simillar sounding cans at a lower price point. As you said "you won't get their sound anywhere else", so that's why I'm considering them.

 

AKG: Wow, I wasn't expecting this recommendation. Before I wrote my post I read lots of threads/reviews, and so I had some idea about what people would suggest me. I obviously thought about the Senns. I knew there would be some HE-400, I was also expecting some DT880 comments (to my surprise no one mentioned them yet though). Even X1 or some Sony. But not the K701. I'll explain: the only experience I've had with AKG was a couple years ago when I was searching for a digital piano to buy, and one store gave me the K240 (if I'm not mistaken) to play them. I recall they were good, although it wouldn't be fair to make a conclusion since I was obviously paying much more attention to the pianos at the time. And since I always though AKGs as studio-grade, professional cans I got really interested in them... until I read this article. For some odd reason now I just can't think about the K701 the same way I did, which isn't good since if I happen to listen to them someday I know I'll be trying to find those flaws! And I hate this! I really try to stay as away as possible from being biased from others opinions, trying my best to read everything with a grain of salt. But we're human after all and everything we read/hear (even this reply to you) end up affecting us someway. And that review hit me in an odd way. That being said, if you really think they're not as stated and will suit my tastes, then I'm willing to order one to hear them myself (by the way, would you recommend ordering the K702 or the Q701?)

 

Finally, I'll try to audition the AE2 this weekend, should be easy to find one.

 

I'm really interested in anything else you could tell about both the K701 and the Senns (for what I get you have/heard the HD600, right?). Specially (or "Especially", I'm not sure) about bad records, forgiveness and such. Thanks again!

The Headfonia article you mention is just a view of one person.

My own view for the cans I have experience with:

HD-650 is comfortable, forgiving to bad recordings and the most euphonic (also the most colored of the cans I currently own) can I have heard. Not veiled, just with treble roll off.

K-701 is more neutral and with bigger soundstage. Less bass (the only significant flaw for me), about equal mids, more treble than the HD-650.

I hasten to add that the differences are NOT big (for me).

HD-650 would be my 1st recommendation for the genres you are interested, but not independedly of price difference (double price from K-701 would bother me).

HE-500 is for me just a little better overall than the other two, definitely in the diminishing returns area you mention.

post #41 of 50

How about Grado's PS500, surely they can't be accused of sounding too bright, i'm not sure if the headband is covered in leather tough confused.gif

post #42 of 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by stacker45 View Post

How about Grado's PS500, surely they can't be accused of sounding too bright, i'm not sure if the headband is covered in leather tough confused.gif

I'm pretty sure those break $300-$400 budget, especially outside of the US. ph34r.gif

Fairly sure it's a leather headband, the SR-325 is, and the RS-2 is, so I don't see why the PS-500 shouldn't be. redface.gif
post #43 of 50

This thread is quite the mess, just a few schools of people standing vehemently by the products they endorse. I'm guessing OP comes out of it more confused than how he was before making the thread.  rolleyes.gif

 

Not at all unexpected though, as OP set an extremely broad set of criteria.

post #44 of 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by jerg View Post

This thread is quite the mess, just a few schools of people standing vehemently by the products they endorse. I'm guessing OP comes out of it more confused than how he was before making the thread.  rolleyes.gif

 

Not at all unexpected though, as OP set an extremely broad set of criteria.

what would you personally recommend??? :) :)

 

Imma newbie, but I totally see the falling into camps thing. it's kinda cool that people get so passionate about their particular sound signature/brand.

post #45 of 50

To the OP...

 

Have you tried the Apogee Duet 2 with other headphones?

A lot of people have chimed in to suggest the Senns HD600/650 (BTW, I also prefer the HD600s over the HD598 and HD650s -- I sold all of them because I rarely use open headphones anymore...) BUT they haven't addressed the amp/DAC situation. If the DUET 2 doesn't have enough to push the Sennheisers, I'm pretty sure you will NOT like them as much as everyone says... I also have a "recording interface" (old Lexicon Omega) and it's headphone output COULD NOT push the HD600s as clearly/cleanly as my dedicated amp (Lehman BCL). I don't think the DUET specs are similar, but just something to call to your attention.!

 

Why not get first a cheaper pair of headphones (such as the Shure SRH840s which perform well with Rock, are comfortable enough and provide good "all-around" sound quality -- and you mentioned that these are easily accessible to you??)?

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