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Soundstage does it exist with headphones ? - Page 2

post #16 of 88

There are ways to create a more realistic soundstage ranging from software to hardware:

 

http://www.head-fi.org/t/642013/noozxoide-for-android#

 

http://www.head-fi.org/t/361251/the-holy-grail-of-true-sound-stage-cross-feed-the-next-generation

 

http://www.head-fi.org/t/648968/a-headphone-shootout-from-a-speaker-listener-testing-eight-headphones-from-80-to-1-200/75#post_9210326 (This headphone review features a new amp called the iCAN that has a 3D feature built in. I just got a loaner of this amp that I am going to review)

post #17 of 88
Quote:
Originally Posted by Baxide View Post

To get to the soundstage level you really have to push the boat out with patience, cash, and careful audio route planning. It's not all about the headphone. If things were only that simple.

I don't get it , I hear a different soundstage in every headphone I tried.

It's the illusion of how much space , the sound is taking around your head, with at least a stereo record.

The crappiest soundstage I've heard is on the hd25 II -1, I literally feel claustrophobic with them.

Otherwise I  love the soundstage of the hd800.

post #18 of 88

Listen to a Q701, or HD800 and then listen to an in ear monitor, and switch back and forth and the difference becomes quite obvious. It's hard to listen to headphones with an average or below average soundstage after using the Q701. It just sounds so awkward. 

post #19 of 88
Quote:
Originally Posted by jasonb View Post

Listen to a Q701, or HD800 and then listen to an in ear monitor,

I  love the soundstage of eph-100 too (iems), although I  would still prefer the hd800.

The soundstage of my senn ie7 is not bad too.

post #20 of 88
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by wolfetan44 View Post

Get a Sennheiser HD800 with a Woo Audio WA2 and a DAC.

That would be nice but I'm trying not to get into the cycle of constant upgrading and analyzing components. Been there done that and music becomes more a tool than a joy. I'm trying to put together a modest system that offers great detail, clarity, black background and non fatiguing I'm not sure but I think I'm close now

iPad, NuForce Ido, Sennheiser Hd650
post #21 of 88
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Baxide View Post

To get to the soundstage level you really have to push the boat out with patience, cash, and careful audio route planning. It's not all about the headphone. If things were only that simple.
First of all, the musical detail has to be present in the music track that would allow for a realistic soundstage. Don't expect anything from mp3. FLAC, WAV, APE are the kind of formats you need to look at.
Next you need a DAC that can dig down to the soundstage bit level and reproduce it without any artefacts that could misalign the soundstage.
And then you need a low distortion headamp that can produce the rms voltage that the impedance of your headphothne would need in order to cover the full audio frequency and signal dynamic range.
Finally, you need a headphone that can produce a soundstage. Only then can you really enter the soundstage domain with your cans.

It is often assumed that just about any headphone design concept can produce a good soundstage, as long a the above criteria are met. Not true. Some designs are better suited than others. Electrostatics are almost guaranteed a place at the top, but conventional drivers set in an unconventional design can now also be considered. I am thinking of trend setters like the MDR-F1 and SA5000, and the more recent HD800. But there are also exceptions that transcend the rule. One of them is the D7000, which has a closed design that is not normally associated with a realistic soundstage. But such odd technical marvels come at a price.

Look, the HD650 is a good set of cans, but it has a couple of shortcomings that hinders its true potential. Mods galore to try to overcome that. The basic sloppy bass and recessed tops impair of a sizeable portion of the soundstage experience. To get round that you need to read up and then try a headamp that is more or less mapped to correct the anomalies with the HD650. Don't get me wrong. I am not singling out the HD650. I own one and wouldn't part with it. I still put it back in its original box after use. But I had to knock up a TPA6120 headamp with a +/-15V supply rail and incorporate a filter network to take down the bass lift and raise the tops before I could get the HD650 to transform from sleeping beauty to fiery vixen. The dryness from the TPA6120 counteracted the woolly feeling of the overall HD650 sound.

So expectations should be tempered. The journey has only just begun in your search for headphone soundstage. I would advise you to go through the archives and threads about the HD650, such as the HD650 appreciation thread. Some outstanding advice and information can be found there on how to get the best soundstage out of the HD650.

Of course you could go and buy headphones till you find what you are looking for. Many of us have, and are a few $$$grands poorer from it. So headphone users like me know the rough


edges and pitfalls along the way that should be avoided when in the persuit of soudstage.

 



Great advice. I will start reading the thread. Joe
Edited by joespride - 2/28/13 at 6:59pm
post #22 of 88

Open headphones tend to have a much better representation of soundstage. I find that with the higher end headphones and a proper recording, the soundstage is actually better than that of hifi speaker systems, especially with binaural recordings.

post #23 of 88

Obviously the best soundstage is from a great pair of speakers. When headphone manufacturers can match that we will all be in headphone nirvana lol

post #24 of 88
Quote:
Originally Posted by ZootFitzgerald View Post

Open headphones tend to have a much better representation of soundstage. I find that with the higher end headphones and a proper recording, the soundstage is actually better than that of hifi speaker systems, especially with binaural recordings.

 

 

Quote:

Originally Posted by extrabigmehdi View Post

 

It's the illusion of how much space , the sound is taking around your head, with at least a stereo record.

 

Like I said, fake. You may enjoy it but it is not correct.

post #25 of 88
Quote:
Originally Posted by Headphile32 View Post

Obviously the best soundstage is from a great pair of speakers. When headphone manufacturers can match that we will all be in headphone nirvana lol

 

No need to match anything on the headphone end. As long as the recording itself was made with headphones in mind, you'll have the best soundstage.

post #26 of 88

With the whole headphone industry growing so rapidly and headphones being used more often overall this should become more common. 

Quote:
Originally Posted by vid View Post

 

No need to match anything on the headphone end. As long as the recording itself was made with headphones in mind, you'll have the best soundstage.

post #27 of 88
Quote:
Originally Posted by Beagle View Post

 

 

 

Like I said, fake. You may enjoy it but it is not correct.


So which one do you prefer , a "fake", narrow and on your face soundstage  like the hd25 or a "fake" soundstage wide like hd800 or k701.

Because there's NO  headphone without a particular soundstage ,and I  don't understand what is your issue.

Oh and I  think the soundstage of ksc75 is great too, so it's not just a snobish taste.

What is "correct" ?

post #28 of 88

Exactly. Who is to say what is correct or not?

 

Find what you like and just enjoy it. I for one really like the Q701's big and wide soundstage, but soundstage is not the most important factor for me. I can still enjoy a headphone with a smaller soundstage like my modded T50rp.  

Quote:
Originally Posted by extrabigmehdi View Post


So which one do you prefer , a "fake", narrow and on your face soundstage  like the hd25 or a "fake" soundstage wide like hd800 or k701.

Because there's NO  headphone without a particular soundstage ,and I  don't understand what is your issue.

Oh and I  think the soundstage of ksc75 is great too, so it's not just a snobish taste.

What is "correct" ?

post #29 of 88

Headphones don't sound as open and have the same soundstage separation as 2CH stereo speakers, which in turn don't have the same soundstage and acoustics as the live instrumentation in person.  They are 3 very different sets of acoustic sound production (and in the case of headphones and speakers re-production) parameters.

 

The K1000 is the most open-image / soundstage headphone I have ever heard.  But technically its not really a headphone, its a pair of planar speakers suspended in front of the ears.


Edited by kramer5150 - 3/3/13 at 9:27am
post #30 of 88
Quote:
Originally Posted by extrabigmehdi View Post


So which one do you prefer , a "fake", narrow and on your face soundstage  like the hd25 or a "fake" soundstage wide like hd800 or k701.

Because there's NO  headphone without a particular soundstage ,and I  don't understand what is your issue.

Oh and I  think the soundstage of ksc75 is great too, so it's not just a snobish taste.

What is "correct" ?

 

 

When I say "fake", I am speaking of "enhanced", an exaggeration of the stereo image present on the recording. This image is distorted on all headphones (yes, ALL) as the left and right channels are separated, there is no partial blend as occurs on loudspeakers. Setting the drivers away from the ears (a la the HD600) is akin to spacing your speakers farther apart, or farther apart than the monitors were during the recording and mixing. The image on the recording is determined by mic placement and/or studio manipulation. For example, if you were to listen to two recordings (a concert hall recording using two mics spaced far apart, and a close-mic'd club recording) you would hear the differences on a pair of buds. An HD600 would merely enhance this. You can manipulate that with different headphones.

 

So a headphone would probably be as "correct" as it could get when the driver is sitting on the ear. I think the only way you could "shrink" the image would be to get the driver past the eardrum.

 

I'm not saying enhancing is not thrilling and fun....only that it is something created by headphones.

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