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The Fiio X3 Thread. - Page 441

post #6601 of 9284
Quote:
Originally Posted by JamesFiiO View Post

OK, let's stop the argument about distortion of MP3, maybe there are better way to improve the decode for MP3 format, but it is not the job for us right now cause it is too difficult and we have better solution right now ( used flac/wav/ape/alac  and even aac ). 


and all I know that AAC/FLAC/ALAC is better than mp3 format in SQ. 


I have about 212 gb of music in mp3 format ripped from my cd collection ...what you are suggesting are I re- do my entire music collection from scratch ...how long will that take ...it is not a solution but a work around ...

Any suggestion from other head-fier on what software or program to use if I were to undertake this mammoth task of 212gb to aac/flac/alac ...thanks
post #6602 of 9284

May I ask for mp3 playback/decoding performance graphs for both  Dx50, X3 and Hm601 (similarly priced popular Daps)? So maybe we could have a chance to see what the others can offer against X3.:wink:  I don't know if it was asked before. 


Edited by ozkan - 11/27/13 at 9:13am
post #6603 of 9284
Quote:
Originally Posted by erictioh View Post

What other dap have you tested ? If I put your mp3 in my iphone 5, so Will I expect iphone 5 plays clearer? If so I will download and test later

 

Don't own an iPhone, but I tested Samsung Galaxy S3, Cowon i9, Samsung R0 and Sony A845. All of them do sound cleaner with these particular mp3 files.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe Bloggs View Post

At some point you may want to ask yourself, what do you think of the X3 *as a whole* right now? Does the tack of the discussion in the last few pages reflect the quality of the X3 *as a whole*?

 

Ok Joe, let me pick up on this: as a whole, I believe the X3 is a very good and extremely versatile product for the price. I've tried my share of "audiophile" DAPs in the past and I think "as a whole", this is the best one I've come across so far. Yes, there are a few niggles in my book, like the button layout and somewhat clumsy user interface, and at times it fails to resume playback on my overly long classical tracks. But I can easily put up with these minor annoyances, because I like pretty much everything else about it.

 

The one thing I decidedly don't like and won't put up with in the long run are those mp3 decoding issues. But the day I'll have to give up on the X3 will be a sad day for me.

post #6604 of 9284
Thanks for all of the graphs....that would be great if I listened with my eyes. Now on to how my X3 sounds to my ears. I am impressed with the quality of the sound in multiple lossless formats. Solid, even, clear, great sound for the dollar. I even listen to many 320kbs files which sound incredible. I have listened to lesser quality mp3's and of course they sound not as good, but compared to the higher sq files they sound bad on anything I try to play them on.

Now the biggest issue that fiio can fix is the interface..all stated issues of ability to sort where the music gets labeled. I realize it is tag dependent so maybe working on my tags is my next task.

James thanks for the device....enjoying it!
post #6605 of 9284
Gr
Quote:
Originally Posted by subguy812 View Post

Thanks for all of the graphs....that would be great if I listened with my eyes. Now on to how my X3 sounds to my ears. I am impressed with the quality of the sound in multiple lossless formats. Solid, even, clear, great sound for the dollar. I even listen to many 320kbs files which sound incredible. I have listened to lesser quality mp3's and of course they sound not as good, but compared to the higher sq files they sound bad on anything I try to play them on.

Now the biggest issue that fiio can fix is the interface..all stated issues of ability to sort where the music gets labeled. I realize it is tag dependent so maybe working on my tags is my next task.

James thanks for the device....enjoying it!
get tagscanner application on windows to tag it mp3, simple And fast
post #6606 of 9284
Quote:
Originally Posted by james444 View Post
 

 

Thanks!

 

Very interesting, because the issue seems to be somehow content related. I just ripped the WAV from a different recording of the same piece (London Philharmonic / Haitink) that I have on CD and encoded it to mp3. Guess what? It shows the same kind of artifacts on the X3 and sounds almost indistinguishable from the WAV on my SGS3.

 

Downloads:

WAV

mp3

 

 

Hi,

 

Testing I'm these files. Hiss is apparent even and at format WAV. Try reencode wav to mp3 (Lamedrop, EZ CD-Audio  Converter)  and FLAC (Flac Frontend) again. The noise is always noticeable.

Own ripped CD from personal collections - "Motets and Mass for Four Voices (Theatre of Voices)."  Two tracks I am encoded to MP3 CBR 320 (LameDrop XpD) and uploaded here:

http://us.ua/1283235/

Absolutely without artifacts.

 

Occurred to me two causes:

1) Bad rip

2) Bad original recording with highers noise background. 

 

That would indicate, that the noise is already in format WAV.

 

post #6607 of 9284
Quote:
Originally Posted by marty63 View Post

Occurred to me two causes:
1) Bad rip
2) Bad original recording with highers noise background.
 
That would indicate, that the noise is already in format WAV.

 

The WAV was ripped with dbPoweramp / secure mode / AccurateRip. Of course there's often a bit of background hiss in quiet classical recordings.

But are you really telling me that you don't hear a difference in background noise between WAV and mp3, if you play back both files on your X3?

 

And how would you explain that the background noise gets less when I transcode the mp3 file to flac and then play the flac on the X3?

And how would you explain that any of my other DAPs plays the same mp3 file with less background noise?

 

Ok, so here's another example, Gustav Mahler's Symphony #2 (Royal Concertgebouw Orchestra, Jansons), movement #4 "Urlicht".

 

mp3

flac (transcoded from mp3)

 

Again, significantly more noise on the X3 with mp3, and less so with flac. Again, the mp3 sounds cleaner on my other DAPs.

 

Don't get me wrong, I don't doubt that there are a lot of mp3s that play without artifacts. That's probably what makes debugging difficult in that case.

But there are others, like my examples, which exhibit excessive background noise on the X3. And it's not a result of bad recording, bad rip, or bad encoding.


Edited by james444 - 11/23/13 at 7:08am
post #6608 of 9284

Sorry, my fault. I heard less hiss on flac and wav. But is noticeable.

And transcoding from mp3 to flac is terrible thing. Mixing lossy and lossless formats...:confused_face(1):

post #6609 of 9284
Quote:
Originally Posted by marty63 View Post
And transcoding from mp3 to flac is terrible thing. Mixing lossy and lossless formats...:confused_face(1):

 

I know. But it's an easy way to demonstrate that the noise isn't an mp3 encoding / compression artifact. If it were, then it would still be present in the flac.

post #6610 of 9284

 Well, happy I was listening to my X3 when I suddenly noticed a huge amount of background noise on a track. Immediately listened to the same file directly from my laptop headphone out and right after from the same laptop using a HRT microstreamer.

 Unfortunately the complaints about mp3 decoding in this thread turned out to be true for me as well. Much more noise on the X3, pretty audible on quieter passages and it increases as volume goes up.

 File is an MP3 CBR 320kbps encoded using LAME 3.97.

 

 Besides this "new" issue (yeah james444, I know you posted it quite some time ago), I've found a bug. I don't remember seeing it posted before:

-While playing a song, when you press and hold the previous track button to scan backwards, the progress bar and time indicator follow. But, when you release the button, the song starts playing from the same place it was before. The song does not go back.

 

 Have you guys noticed or been able to repeat this behavior?

 Again, I'm sorry if it has been posted already.

post #6611 of 9284
This is a statement written by James, translated by me, and represents both our thoughts on the matter.

Dear members of Head-Fi,

Firstly, thank you all for your suggestions and help. As everyone knows, FiiO became a success not because we were smarter or stronger than others, but because we encourage and continue listening to user feedback, and even invite everyone to join in designing and creating our new products--such as the X1, our new entry level high-res lossless music player which has just got on our drawing board. That drawing board is right here with you: http://www.head-fi.org/t/691332/fiio-x1-the-most-portable-and-affordable-high-resolution-dap-from-fiio

Our posting history shows that communicating with, being open with and trusting in our customers has always been the basic tenets of our presence at head-fi.

Regarding the X3's firmware and any suggestions for improvement, we welcome everyone's feedback. In fact we have long since opened a thread just for this purpose. I maintain this thread's OP and am able to summarize everyone's ideas and bug reports and report on our plans and actions in reply to them.
http://www.head-fi.org/t/681927/reply-to-some-bugs-of-x3-s-new-firmware-and-new-function-suggestions-from-our-end-users

Many problems (most not listed in the OP) have already been fixed and we will continue fixing remaining issues and improving the X3 based on suggestions.

There is more good news: the X1, X3 and X5 will share the same development platform. Thus, not only will the fruits of X3's development be employed on the X5 and X1, the reverse also applies: we need not abandon the X3 to work on the X5 firmware. Instead, improvements researched for the X5 and subsequently the X1 can, to a great extent, be carried over to the X3. Thus problems can be solved on all our players, old and new, and their performance will continue to improve.

Finally, we would like to share our prioritization process for addressing bugs, issues and feature requests--you understand that such prioritization is always necessary given limited engineering resources:

1.Stability issues are the most urgently addressed; then come bugs; finally, we come to optimizations and new features.

2.Also, to increase the number of issues addressed in a given time, we place easy-to-fix issues ahead of hard-to-fix issues.

3.We also prioritize issues according to the number of users affected by the issue. Naturally, issues that affect the majority of users come first.

(Note: at this point, some of you may wonder: why was the major new feature, USB decoding, added in firmware 2.05 ahead of other bug fixes? The answer: a separate research team had been working on this feature since before the X3 was ever released--so there was a lot of research manpower tied to the completion of this feature, manpower that could not otherwise effectively work on other bugfixes at any rate.)

The upshot of the above 3 prioritization rules is, we have decided that some issues are more important than the mp3 decoding issue, among which some examples are:
* Ogg Vorbis decoding. Now here's a real bug!
* The request for multi-layer category navigation. We decided that being able to find the right song to play at all was more important than the last few % of audio quality listening to the wrong song...

We believe that with enough work, X3's mp3 decoding can be improved in the future. (For that matter, it's been 20 years since the mp3 standard was first finalized and the brave developers at LAME are still working on improving encoding...) But please understand that this is not only difficult, but also somewhat beside the point, as no amount of work on our part can make mp3s an audio format to rival lossless formats in quality--which is where we spent the majority of our pre-release research effort, to be able to play back as many different lossless formats as possible. Nevertheless, we will continue to strive to improve the decoding quality and hopefully someday make everyone happy smily_headphones1.gif

Finally, we hope our supporters would understand and support us, so that we may spend less time on solving issues regarding public relations issues regarding firmware issues yet to be solved and more time on actually solving said firmware issues wink.gif

Yours sincerely,
James Chung,
Director
and Joseph Yeung,
Translator and Customer Service Officer
FiiO Electronics Technology Co. Ltd.

Translator's note: throughout these last few days, James has been giving me flack for promising the moon when it comes to firmware updates like the mp3 decoding update and the multi-level category sorting. My understanding--as confirmed here--is that the engineering team is actually working on these issues. However, he doesn't want to promise an update and have his development team run into an unforseen dead end and disappoint his customers. So I suspect he'll want me to stress here that we're not promising a definite update to the mp3 decoding, only that we are definitely working on it. He's just that kind of upstanding guy smily_headphones1.gif
Edited by Joe Bloggs - 11/23/13 at 8:33am
post #6612 of 9284

While it seems that James' results indicates that the MP3 decoder needs to be better (fortunately it looks like that will happen in an update), I prefer other compression formats. MP3 just sounds like it's pumping along with the music to me. May be emphasizing the issue. Prefer AAC or WMA though I seldom use any of them now a days. I also prefer CBR to VBR. That said, I do understand that MP3 is still the most universal.


Edited by goodvibes - 11/23/13 at 8:00am
post #6613 of 9284

I find my X3 battery indicator always in full no matter how long i use it, then it will suddenly shutdown without warning when the battery flat, does anyone has this problem ?

post #6614 of 9284

That's the main difference beetween Fiio and the others: Feedback. Although I would prefere the proper  mp3 decoding as a priority, I totally understand all James words. I love my X3 and I'm happy knowing it will be improved for a long time.

post #6615 of 9284
I am glad that Fiio will continue supporting the X3 to oblivion, makes the X3 worth even more than its price can justify.
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