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The Fiio X3 Thread. - Page 428

post #6406 of 16104

What date are we looking at to get an EQ for the X3 ? 

post #6407 of 16104
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marlene View Post
 

I cannot access the example MP3s you uploaded. Do they contain the noise you were talking about? Did you produce them yourself? I´m asking because if you resampled them some not-very-good resampler could suck at aliasing rejection which might cause noise to creep back into the audible band. Or did you record the output of the FiiO to exhibit the noise?

 

Those shares have expired, but Fiio already listened to my test files and confirmed this to be a bug two months ago. Anyway, I just made new shares for the mp3 and the flac that I transcoded from the mp3, in case you're interested.

 

Like I said in my post back then, it's a lame encoded mp3 (by myself, iirc) that exhibits horrible background noise on the X3 if you crank up the volume a bit. These are not mp3 compression artifacts, because the same file plays fine on my other DAPs. And moreover, if you transcode the very same mp3 file to flac (second link), it plays without that background noise on the X3.

 

As a side note, these artifacts sound very similar to those produced by PlayerPro on my SGS3 Android phone if I activate the PlayerPro's DSPPack. The moment I deactivate DSPPack, the background noise is gone. I've documented this bug on the PlayerPro forum a year ago, but it never got fixed.

post #6408 of 16104

I got to try the X3 last weekend at a recent HiFi show, and here are my brief impressions:

1) Sound : I was expecting it to suck with my ASG-1.2 (using Westone clear tips), but instead of getting too warm and possibly muffled sound, all I got was loud, clear, and open sound. Maybe a little excess bloom in the lower midrange-upper bass, like the bass lines on Norah Jones, or on some parts of the vocals, like when she goes, "Don't know why, I didn't call..." - but it's definitely a lot less than on my SGS3.

 

2) UI : was not as horrible as I expected, and I'm not one who has never owned an Apple product (have an iPad2 now; owned an iPod 4g, 5g, 5.5g, iPT4). It's not as smooth as the iPods to be sure, but for my use it had more to do with the buttons vs a click wheel or a touchscreen. I was not able to replicate the missing files or screwed up sequencing issues because I only listen in one way - per album - a habit that I've had because that's how you listen when you have to stand up to get a disc, lift a needle/open a tray, feed a new disc, lower the needle/close the tray, so on and so forth. I never use shuffle on all tracks, because I don't want my listening to go from Norah Jones to Megadeth in one go; not even by genre, because it would just get screwed up with metal, as I input the more specific subgenres in the track tags (ie, power, symphonic, speed, black, etc). And all that was easily done - I just slipped an old 16gb microSD I used with my older Android phone where everything is ripped into Artist/Album folders and tagged by MediaMonkey - and they all showed up there no problems. By comparison, I've spent a few nights recently wanting to throw my iPa2 at the monitor because both Accudio and FLACPlayer(even after an iOS7 update for bugs!) would either freeze, files would disappear, or they won't show the album art no matte how many times I copy them and check the tags and image files names; plus iTunes11 kept intruding into other folders even if told not to, and as I'm listening, MediaMonkey track lists start going grey one after another like a hacking scene in a movie, which goes away when I delete iTunes11. By comparison the exact same files worked fine loaded into an SDCard and into my SGS3, regardless of what I did with it. I actually had more trouble pushing the wrong buttons (the control wheel is probably the main feature I want in the X5 by now) than the FW, although I wouldn't know if maybe a 64gb card would get a lot of trouble.

Basically, if you only listen per album and tag it as I do* in MediaMonkey or Foobar, no need to worry. If you're an iTunes kind of guy, look elsewhere, this is NOT something for you. There really are just two kinds of how brains function, and I suppose for every few people banging their heads at the X3 and DX50 while praising iTunes, there's got to be more like me who would have strangled iTunes and slapped him with the properly-functioning Android if it had been an actual person.

 

 

 

*01, 02, 03, so forth; maybe even auto-tag the rest of the info if it can find it. On multi-disc albums/concerts I tag the 01 of Disc Two as whatever comes after the last track of Disc One, then re-tagging them to show only one album. For example, The Classical Conspiracy Disc01 ends at Track 17; I re-tag Disc02, Track 01 as "Track 18," so on and so forth, then delete "Disc0x" from the album tag. So instead of making a cutom playlist to tap into all tracks from both discs, I just open the album folder, and it plays straight from there all the tracks in the album.


Edited by ProtegeManiac - 11/16/13 at 11:05pm
post #6409 of 16104
Quote:
Originally Posted by shrimants View Post

...

I just came back from another short chat with the X3 software engineer. They say that the song categorizing improvements you proposed are possible, just on the back burner for now. Exactly why they didn't say, but I'd hazard a guess that it's a combination of the perceived seriousness of the problem and the effort required to make the coding change (the latter of which it is not really our place to guess at from outside the firmware development team).

And no, the X3 firmware as a whole is not on the back burner compared to the X5. After all, international release of the X5 will be no sooner than March, and it's not feasible for us to play Tai Chi* with customer complaints on the X3 for a whole four months... and we still intend to sell the X3 after the X5 comes out wink.gif I'm even willing to bet we'll still be releasing firmware updates for the X3 long after it's no longer being made smily_headphones1.gif

*Tai Chi: 1. Chinese martial art style emphasizing deflecting the enemy's attacks to harmless places while expending little muscular effort. 2. Oft-used term in Cantonese Chinese for dodging questions, burying a complainant in bureaucracy and other delaying tactics wink.gif

FWIW, James sent me FW2.06 two days ago, an internal-testing only bugfix update. Here's a rough translation of the changelog:
1. Fixed bug on some units where if gain is set high and X3 is used as USB DAC playing 0dBFS songs, the sound would distort when volume is over 53 with some headphones.
2. Fixed bug on some units where if a 192kbps mp3 is played and the headphones are repeated unplugged and replugged, the sound changes pitch.
3. Fixed bug on FW2.05 where under some circumstances, songs would appear to play from the X3 (as a standalone player) but no sound would be played after using the X3 as a DAC.
4. Fixed issue where some units exhibited noise when used as DAC.
5. Fixed stuttering issue when X3 is used as DAC with some computers.
6. Fixed song ordering under browse mode.

You may not agree with FiiO's priorities, but I hope you'll agree that these are real issues that need fixing too. And note that the "workaround" you mentioned (browse mode) gets better with (6) from this update. For me, browse mode is not a workaround, it's the only way I roll (since many of my songs are not tagged properly)
Edited by Joe Bloggs - 11/17/13 at 8:31am
post #6410 of 16104

just throwing my review into the ring

 

http://www.head-fi.org/t/690705/fiio-x3-review

 

great value machine they have there, really nice.

post #6411 of 16104
Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe Bloggs View Post

I just came back from another short chat with the X3 software engineer. They say that the song categorizing improvements you proposed are possible, just on the back burner for now. Exactly why they didn't say, but I'd hazard a guess that it's a combination of the perceived seriousness of the problem and the effort required to make the coding change (the latter of which it is not really our place to guess at from outside the firmware development team).

And no, the X3 firmware as a whole is not on the back burner compared to the X5. After all, international release of the X5 will be no sooner than March, and it's not feasible for us to play Tai Chi* with customer complaints on the X3 for a whole four months...

*Tai Chi: 1. Chinese martial art style emphasizing deflecting the enemy's attacks to harmless places while expending little muscular effort. 2. Oft-used term in Cantonese Chinese for dodging questions, burying a complainant in bureaucracy and other delaying tactics wink.gif

FWIW, James sent me FW2.06 two days ago, an internal-testing only bugfix update. Here's a rough translation of the changelog:
1. Fixed bug on some units where if gain is set high and X3 is used as USB DAC playing 0dBFS songs, the sound would distort when volume is over 53 with some headphones.
2. Fixed bug on some units where if a 192kbps mp3 is played and the headphones are repeated unplugged and replugged, the sound changes pitch.
3. Fixed bug on FW2.05 where under some circumstances, songs would appear to play from the X3 (as a standalone player) but no sound would be played after using the X3 as a DAC.
4. Fixed issue where some units exhibited noise when used as DAC.
5. Fixed stuttering issue when X3 is used as DAC with some computers.
6. Fixed song ordering under browse mode.

You may not agree with FiiO's priorities, but I hope you'll agree that these are real issues that need fixing too. And note that the "workaround" you mentioned (browse mode) gets better with (6) from this update. For me, browse mode is not a workaround, it's the only way I roll (since many of my songs are not tagged properly)

Well, I think you should take a look at the complaints from day 1 of this thread. The 2 things I mentioned have been a problem since day 1 and that is why Ive mentioned them. Its unintuitive to use the X3, regardless of how good it might sound. Currently it looks like the developers are more interested in playing tai chi with themselves than with users.
post #6412 of 16104

i'm interested

post #6413 of 16104
maybe post a list of the possible bugs and we can prioritize it from 1-5 and see what rises to the top. Put the list on facebook, here, and wherever else you use for your social outlets. Is it the customers' opinion that matters or the developers?
post #6414 of 16104
Quote:
Originally Posted by shrimants View Post

Well, I think you should take a look at the complaints from day 1 of this thread. The 2 things I mentioned have been a problem since day 1 and that is why Ive mentioned them. Its unintuitive to use the X3, regardless of how good it might sound. Currently it looks like the developers are more interested in playing tai chi with themselves than with users.

Shrimants ...i totally agree with you on these. Sound-wise excellent but as the problems mentioned by Shrimants really doesn't seem like a huge overhaul of the UI ..see no reason why it is so difficult. I personally think these sorting issue need to be rectified if the engineer said it is possible ...after all they added the DAP function in record time which in my opinion an additional feature while the sorting issue and button functions or lack of it are real problem in making the UI better.

I am noob in technical stuff n lingo and not really sure what is it about mp3 tagging or how it is decoded ..but all i know is I rip my CD using Window Media player into mp3 format only. Used to play all mp3 songs using my Samsung S3 via Poweramp . It display the album cover and gapless playback with no problem at all.

But somehow on Fiio X3 my mp3 tracks can't do gapless playback and really ...even if i know how to properly tag or code the MP3 .....don't think i will go through with re doing my almost 200gb of music .

Don't mean to step on amybody but its just how i feel ...cheers
post #6415 of 16104
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wokei View Post

Shrimants ...i totally agree with you on these. Sound-wise excellent but as the problems mentioned by Shrimants really doesn't seem like a huge overhaul of the UI ..see no reason why it is so difficult. I personally think these sorting issue need to be rectified if the engineer said it is possible ...after all they added the DAP function in record time which in my opinion an additional feature while the sorting issue and button functions or lack of it are real problem in making the UI better.

I am noob in technical stuff n lingo and not really sure what is it about mp3 tagging or how it is decoded ..but all i know is I rip my CD using Window Media player into mp3 format only. Used to play all mp3 songs using my Samsung S3 via Poweramp . It display the album cover and gapless playback with no problem at all.

But somehow on Fiio X3 my mp3 tracks can't do gapless playback and really ...even if i know how to properly tag or code the MP3 .....don't think i will go through with re doing my almost 200gb of music .

Don't mean to step on amybody but its just how i feel ...cheers

Also, it takes more than good sound to compete with an AK100. You need your product to FUNCTION like a high end player, and right now it functions like some cheap best-buy/radioshack garbage regardless of how good it sounds. make it pretty and easy to use and you've already gotten the vast majority of the "uninformed" userbase to flock to you because of the pricetag and durability. All these random little sound fixes? They are things you are putting there yourselves and then fixing when you realize your mistake. none of us are bringing up these issues.

The issues we're talking about are MP3 decoding (which is "acknowledged as a bug") and the 2 things i've mentioned, which people seem to have given up on.
post #6416 of 16104
I'd start a thread with a poll on the different bugs, but recently I've been cursed with a total absence of replies for any thread I start, including threads on behalf of FiiO... redface.gif

First we need a complete list of bugs and feature requests as well.
post #6417 of 16104
Would you like to keep this list on Head-fi or would you like to start a list on a dedicated bug/feature tracking platform?

Personally i think that to enumerate the list at all just head-fi is fine, but to do anything else like prioritize, head-fi will not be sufficient.
Edited by shrimants - 11/17/13 at 10:10am
post #6418 of 16104
Quote:
Originally Posted by shrimants View Post

I see that you hated the "artist" view. Why is that? I'm sure that its for the same reason I disliked it: it listed all the first tracks, then the second tracks, then 03 tracks, then 04, etc. There was no option to search within artist by album, and the "all songs by this artist" view doesnt sort intuitively.

 

Yes, that´s exactly the reason why I don´t use it. Usually, I go by genre -> artist -> album (that´s how JRiver organizes my library) but I had for that on the FiiO, saw that it wasn´t able to do it and then without further ado chose to use 'Album'. I didn´t even spend a second thought on that... my Clip+ wasn´t able to do it (and I hate Rockbox), other players aren´t able to do it correctly... so I didn´t mind in the slightest.

Quote:
I think fiio is already competitive enough against the AK100. I mean the AK100 costs 6 times as much, and cant really measure that much better. Put them against each other on a test bench and see if one performs 6 times better in terms of specifications, see if any of those specifications are even worthwhile. Some people just want to blow money on useless high end audio devices because they are rich and they think that money == audio fideltiy, and they are free to do so, fiio wouldnt ever get their business anyways.

 

You´re right of course. But I often have the impression that FiiO wants to offer something beside the price point. About the rest, I completely agree. Money = audio fidelity. Can find that even around here. I think of the example: the Sennheiser HD-800 needs a fitting amp costing the same or more for... how is it called around here? "synergy effect". Yeah. Utter crap, the amp inside my Xonar Essence STX would suffice completely, electrically it´s even better than needed. But it doesn´t cost enough and it´s on board a mere soundcard residing inside the PC where the horrible switching power supply AND other radiating parts are... sorry, I digress.

Quote:
Also, this comparison to first gen ipod keeps being drawn. But that was in 2001 with no other comparable hardware on the market. Apple started from scratch. They put a HUGE screen on this thing, there was practically no one else to compete against for the longest time (till ipod gen3 i believe, because ipod still kept beating everyone in terms of disk space, even when others managed to nail the UI like iRiver).

 

I think we don´t need to discuss the actual reason why Apple was successful: they were 'cool'. They adopted the 'coolness' that was typical for Sony in the years prior.

Quote:
Right now you can buy an ardiuino kit and create your own mp3 player. There are thousands of DAPs on the market to choose from. There are thousands to research from. Ipod had to make a big start, but fiio has 12 years of technology and knowledge to draw upon when creating this. Sure they are a small company, but this design seems like they didnt have anyone simulate it first, they didnt have any prototypes that people tried using, they didnt have any beta testing (except what we are doing now) and even now when we are telling them "this is what is wrong" we werent really getting any replies regarding a possible solution.

 

Someone made the statement about patents. I think that person was correct. The situation with patents has become more and more severe over the last few years. Those patents are hoarded by companies having nothing to do with those patents, after that they sue the hell out of companies just to make money. I think FiiO wants to avoid this.
 

Quote:
On a different note, i really love this website. theres not many people IRL you can talk to this passionately about such odd subjects like a digital audio player's problems and the internal workings of the company that designed it. Normal people just wouldnt care. They'd just return it and buy something else, or say "oops bad purchase" and buy something else.

 

Yeah, we´re geeks, aren´t we? :D

 

Personally I love it. I don´t know what I´d do without the net and sites like these. Where would I go with my hobbies?

post #6419 of 16104
Is it not enough to enumerate the numerous options and then put them together in a multiple-choice poll? I've never submitted bugs to an online bug tracking system, let alone administered one, so don't really know what its advantages are tongue.gif or whether they apply to FiiO's situation. If we decide to build an X3 bugzilla would you like to administer it? tongue.gif
post #6420 of 16104
Quote:
Originally Posted by james444 View Post
 

 

Those shares have expired, but Fiio already listened to my test files and confirmed this to be a bug two months ago. Anyway, I just made new shares for the mp3 and the flac that I transcoded from the mp3, in case you're interested.

 

Like I said in my post back then, it's a lame encoded mp3 (by myself, iirc) that exhibits horrible background noise on the X3 if you crank up the volume a bit. These are not mp3 compression artifacts, because the same file plays fine on my other DAPs. And moreover, if you transcode the very same mp3 file to flac (second link), it plays without that background noise on the X3.

 

As a side note, these artifacts sound very similar to those produced by PlayerPro on my SGS3 Android phone if I activate the PlayerPro's DSPPack. The moment I deactivate DSPPack, the background noise is gone. I've documented this bug on the PlayerPro forum a year ago, but it never got fixed.

 

Strange. A perfectly standard MP3, encoded with LAME 320 kBit/s CBR. These aren´t compression artifacts, you´re right. Haven´t noticed something like this before but maybe it´s related to the errors I found in MP3 playback.

 

BTW, who´s the conductor/orchestra on this V. Williams recording? Like it.

 

I can recommend a recording by Telarc... fabulous interpretation and equally dynamic.

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