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The Fiio X3 Thread. - Page 426

post #6376 of 12912
Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe Bloggs View Post


Yeah, should be all of them, I'm just using mp3 as an example. Actually they've finished recoding ogg decoding and haven't got to mp3 itself quite yet. wink.gif 24bit will be fine eh? Well if FPU decoding makes the x3 start catching fire or something I'll be sure to tell them that tongue.gif I guess we should also check if we can make the FPU walk and chew gum at the same time to provide another feature many users have been asking for cool.gif

 

Making coffee would be enough :p

 

Really, you guys know that you´re awesome so I don´t need to tell you.

 

YOU´RE AWESOME!!

 

I´m not kidding, this is great, really, really great.

post #6377 of 12912

Just wondering if the new mp3 decoder, apart from being 32 or 24 bit, will actually playback gaplessly? Because it sure doesn't at the moment :-(

post #6378 of 12912

Hi,

 

I've had the X3 for a week now and it's a fantastic piece of equipment. With that said, I was wondering if FW 2.05 improves battery life?

 

Additionally, should charging be done after a full drain or just whenever it is low in order to prolong the longevity of the battery?

 

Thanks.

post #6379 of 12912
Quote:
Originally Posted by shrimants View Post


And this is why, despite how many improvements the X5 makes over the X3, i cannot bring myself to be excited over it. I'm sure it will be a fantastic product. But can you really sell me this X3, have me struggling to use it, tell me "i cant" whenever i ask for the most simple of UI tweaks all while adding crazy other features like usb dac mode and worrying about stuff regular users dont give a crap about (32 bit floating point mp3 decode WHO CARES IF YOU CANT FIND THE MP3).....And after i've spend 200 bucks on this and 50 bucks on an SD card, you say "btw, we fixed everything, now spend another 300 on our new player without the issues in our last player. BTW, we might have a whole new set of issues".

 

I´ll ignore for a moment that I might not be a 'regular' user. But maybe you´d understand issues others would have better if you´d transfer your interface related feelings to another subject, sound perhaps. To me, sound is as important as the interface is to you. Maybe this helps you understanding why I very much would like to have this crap / crazy features nobody else seems to need (which doesn´t seem to be the case).

 

I don´t know if someone asked you this before - if so, sorry - but how do you store your music on the X3? Do you put them in a folder or do you have thousands of files in the root directory? What are the formats you´re playing? I´m asking because I mix aac & mp3 with flac (not within the same folder but from album to album) and I don´t have any problems with that. I´ve tried some 200 albums or more and everything has been found without problems so far. So either you´re exaggerating, some files of yours are encoded wrongly or you did something else you don´t know about. Or maybe it really is the FiiO. Instead of getting mad at me, please read those two sentences again - I don´t know what your actual problem is, so I´m just guessing. And I don´t like it. I don´t have enough information. It´d be more helpful if you´d describe these problems, what files you use, how they were encoded, if they´re tagged etc. etc.

 

And really... did you honestly expect Apple quality when it comes to convenience, interface design, maturity, etc.? You wanna be a computer engineer, you should know how horribly difficult it is to program one tiny piece of convenient, easy-to-use, bug free software. Do you know how many years it took Apple to design their first iPod? And how horrible their interface looked back then? Including iTunes? Back then it was state of the art but today you´d laugh at the dated design and inconvinient handling. Apple is a company only one year younger than Microsoft, don´t you think that 37 years of coding and engineering experience is something a bit different to a company like FiiO which is 5 years old?

post #6380 of 12912
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marlene View Post

I´ll ignore for a moment that I might not be a 'regular' user. But maybe you´d understand issues others would have better if you´d transfer your interface related feelings to another subject, sound perhaps. To me, sound is as important as the interface is to you. Maybe this helps you understanding why I very much would like to have this crap / crazy features nobody else seems to need (which doesn´t seem to be the case).

I don´t know if someone asked you this before - if so, sorry - but how do you store your music on the X3? Do you put them in a folder or do you have thousands of files in the root directory? What are the formats you´re playing? I´m asking because I mix aac & mp3 with flac (not within the same folder but from album to album) and I don´t have any problems with that. I´ve tried some 200 albums or more and everything has been found without problems so far. So either you´re exaggerating, some files of yours are encoded wrongly or you did something else you don´t know about. Or maybe it really is the FiiO. Instead of getting mad at me, please read those two sentences again - I don´t know what your actual problem is, so I´m just guessing. And I don´t like it. I don´t have enough information. It´d be more helpful if you´d describe these problems, what files you use, how they were encoded, if they´re tagged etc. etc.

And really... did you honestly expect Apple quality when it comes to convenience, interface design, maturity, etc.? You wanna be a computer engineer, you should know how horribly difficult it is to program one tiny piece of convenient, easy-to-use, bug free software. Do you know how many years it took Apple to design their first iPod? And how horrible their interface looked back then? Including iTunes? Back then it was state of the art but today you´d laugh at the dated design and inconvinient handling. Apple is a company only one year younger than Microsoft, don´t you think that 37 years of coding and engineering experience is something a bit different to a company like FiiO which is 5 years old?

Lot of information, i'll try to address it and let me know if i missed anything.

For one thing, its not that I dont care that MP3 decode issues are present. For sure I do care, and considering the Fiio is technically capped at 64gb, take a user with a HUGE library, convert all their flac to 320kbps mp3, transfer to a 64 gig card. VERY likely scenario. Now in this case, if that user has nothing but mp3 (again, very likely scenario, esp. if user only uses internal 8gb) then you suddenly have very poor audio quality for every file on the X3. unacceptable. This makes mp3 decode a high priority item, IMO.

The way i store music is like this: Root/Artist/Album/Track.FLAC. Almost everything on my player is flac, but there are some albums where the artist only released VBR mp3, and I havent listened to it much. Also, im not mad at you in the slightest, and I dont know where you're getting that from. Theres no hard feelings here. Actually I find it quite impressive that you figured this out, and when I have more time I'm definitely going to go back and read up on this to see how this was found out and how it will be remedied. VERY nice work.

All of my files are tagged "correctly", i use the windows 7 x64 program "mp3tag". the tag type is id3 for most of them, i think version 2, but some have the tag type shwing up as "flac". This specific type of tag sometimes gives problems in some software like Musicbee and gives problems with the X3. It doesnt give problems in Winamp though, which I found odd. I uninstalled Musicbee, put music into Winamp, closed everything, saved all tags without changing anything, and X3 managed to read things correctly. Dont know what happened though. I think maybe Musicbee was the culprit and was saving tags incorrectly.

I dont expect apple quality. However, what I do expect, given the way the thread is going, is that when a problem is identified (especially from within the first pages of the thread), that the problem will be remedied. Instead, month after month, we are told "we cant fix it". There is no real explanation of why. The closest explanation is "it is too hard to explain why because of language barrier". I figured that with Fiio's new english/chinese guy, he might be able to make some sense of what the problem was. I also figured that maybe we can have some update on if the X5 firmware ported to X3 is happening or if that is still just speculation.

My concern is that these 2 glaring problems have been there since day 1 and fiio has corrected many things but not that. Seemingly it is simple, it is a linked list type thing. Admittedly difficult to do linked lists in a tiny embedded environment, but Fiio wouldnt have hired programmers that dont know what they're doing. I dont see what is so difficult about adding the menu options, and about changing a simple sorting method.

All im really asking for is either to have that changed, or an explanation of why the change cant be implemented.

And while the ipod interface looked bad when it first came out, its not like Fiio hasnt had multiple generations of products from multiple vendors (including apple and sansa clip, who has the same number of buttons as the X3) to figure out how to properly lay out an interface. I would think its common sense to do some market research and see what other interfaces are like before you design your own.
post #6381 of 12912

Would there be any harm to the X3 if i were to attach a magnet to the back of the silicone case and put the device inside of it 

post #6382 of 12912
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bray90820 View Post
 

Would there be any harm to the X3 if i were to attach a magnet to the back of the silicone case and put the device inside of it 

Depends on the type of magnet.

post #6383 of 12912
Quote:
Originally Posted by bowei006 View Post
 

Depends on the type of magnet.

just a standard stick on magnet sheet like the one listed below so i can put it inside my own flip cover 

http://www.rapidonline.com/catalogueimages/module/M064796P01WL.jpg

post #6384 of 12912

I have never had problems with regular magnets next to electronics. But of course, its all up to you

post #6385 of 12912
Quote:
Originally Posted by shrimants View Post


Lot of information, i'll try to address it and let me know if i missed anything.

For one thing, its not that I dont care that MP3 decode issues are present. For sure I do care, and considering the Fiio is technically capped at 64gb, take a user with a HUGE library, convert all their flac to 320kbps mp3, transfer to a 64 gig card. VERY likely scenario. Now in this case, if that user has nothing but mp3 (again, very likely scenario, esp. if user only uses internal 8gb) then you suddenly have very poor audio quality for every file on the X3. unacceptable. This makes mp3 decode a high priority item, IMO.

The way i store music is like this: Root/Artist/Album/Track.FLAC. Almost everything on my player is flac, but there are some albums where the artist only released VBR mp3, and I havent listened to it much. Also, im not mad at you in the slightest, and I dont know where you're getting that from. Theres no hard feelings here. Actually I find it quite impressive that you figured this out, and when I have more time I'm definitely going to go back and read up on this to see how this was found out and how it will be remedied. VERY nice work.

All of my files are tagged "correctly", i use the windows 7 x64 program "mp3tag". the tag type is id3 for most of them, i think version 2, but some have the tag type shwing up as "flac". This specific type of tag sometimes gives problems in some software like Musicbee and gives problems with the X3. It doesnt give problems in Winamp though, which I found odd. I uninstalled Musicbee, put music into Winamp, closed everything, saved all tags without changing anything, and X3 managed to read things correctly. Dont know what happened though. I think maybe Musicbee was the culprit and was saving tags incorrectly.
 

 

That's kinda strange. I use Musicbee to do all my tagging and file transfers, and haven't had any probs with X3 reading the tags. My storage is pretty much the same as what you use (root/Music/Artist/Album). I think I have Musicbee set to write v2 id3 tags as well.

I do agree with you that the organization/function of the category mode leaves a lot to be desired, and considering that the engineers are capable to add DAC capability, you'd think that they'd be able to get that sorted out. However using the file browser pretty much makes that moot for me. Maybe it's time for James to update the wip for the X3, and possibly provided a little better explanation about what can't be done (eg, the big lag switching tracks).

Finally, a heads-up: I have a current gen Classic running Rockbox. It sucks in its own way (can barely get it close to a USB port without it freezing:o. IMO, I really don't understand all the hype about rockbox).

post #6386 of 12912
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Trev View Post

That's kinda strange. I use Musicbee to do all my tagging and file transfers, and haven't had any probs with X3 reading the tags. My storage is pretty much the same as what you use (root/Music/Artist/Album). I think I have Musicbee set to write v2 id3 tags as well.
I do agree with you that the organization/function of the category mode leaves a lot to be desired, and considering that the engineers are capable to add DAC capability, you'd think that they'd be able to get that sorted out. However using the file browser pretty much makes that moot for me. Maybe it's time for James to update the wip for the X3, and possibly provided a little better explanation about what can't be done (eg, the big lag switching tracks).
Finally, a heads-up: I have a current gen Classic running Rockbox. It sucks in its own way (can barely get it close to a USB port without it freezing:o . IMO, I really don't understand all the hype about rockbox).

Thats all im really asking for, is for james to take a look at whats going on with the X3, look at the problems we've mentioned, prioritize and figure out what should be fixed. IMO the ones you and i have mentioned are things that should def. be fixed especially if the devs are good enough to make it a usb dac/amp combo. You cant tell me they dont know their way around the firmware.

Also, that classic with its usb issues. make sure you're running the latest version of EMcore and the latest rockbox. Also, turn on rockbox fully, THEN plug it into a USB port. otherwise it freezes up. it has to stabilize before you can start usb stuff.
post #6387 of 12912
Quote:
Originally Posted by shrimants View Post

If you're able to talk to the programmer, can you get a clear explanation on exactly why the following items "cant be fixed":

1) track numbering: 01 01 01 02 02 02 03 03 03 etc. under all songs, genre, and artist view (album mode has the problem too, but not as apparent)

2) no /artist/album/track, no /genre/artist/album/track

And apart from that, something ive noticed:

first button press turns screen on. This gets very annoying, dunno how your guys' experience is though. I feel like when i hit "next track", or "volume up" i expect immediate response, not "screen on". However, this kind of goes back to not enough buttons on the X3. Ipod classic has 7 total buttons: middle click, up/down/left/right click, scroll "up", scroll "down". also screen lock. X3 has 6, plus screen lock. Difference between them is that ipod didnt try to make play/pause the "select" button. So some intuitiveness and a LOT of field testing for figuring out proper methods of what feels natural becomes necessary.

I mentioned before, for example, we have a ton of menu options that have like 3-4 options. yet, for some reason instead of using play/pause to cycle through them in one direction, we need to use volume +/- in order to cycle through them, which also disables our ability to control volume through the player. If you want to make it so you can only play/pause on the now playing screen, fine. but at least let the volume be controlled in all places. Use Play/Pause to cycle through different options.

Also, I think the X3 should try to take advantage of multi-button presses. However, this is often a limitation of the microcontroller, and I wouldnt be surprised if it cant be implemented. Just a thought. Like press play/pause+back at the same time to turn off the screen or something. or volume up/down at the same time. Or even toggle hold switch while holding play/pause button.


Don't blame the programmers for software user interface issues. That's the job of the designers--assuming FiiO is using designers. Apple did a brilliant job with the iPod UI, but most companies aren't blessed with world-class designers. The hardware design is done, we have to live with that, but there's no reason the UI could not be redesigned, reprogrammed, and included in a future firmware update.

 

The big question is, who's doing the software UI design and are they open to suggestions from the user base. Maybe we could get a separate thread going--I'd be happy to wireframe the results of the discussion (I do that for a living). I think we can assume that the buttons are fully programmable--we at least know they can do "length of press" operations, so they can probably do double-press and triple-press operations. Power on/off should have been a switch or button on the side--that's a waste of a UI button. Maybe we can get them to make power on/off a button combination, making the button fully available for Select functions.

post #6388 of 12912
Quote:
Originally Posted by shrimants View Post

And while the ipod interface looked bad when it first came out, its not like Fiio hasnt had multiple generations of products from multiple vendors (including apple and sansa clip, who has the same number of buttons as the X3) to figure out how to properly lay out an interface. I would think its common sense to do some market research and see what other interfaces are like before you design your own.

Here's the problem with that: the big companies have a lot of patents for things they have in their code and hardware, and heaps of money to throw lawsuits at other companies, who simply can't afford it.

FiiO is a company which has stated before that they want to play by the book, so, unless they pay a lot of money for the right to use those patents, they'll have to do everything from scratch.
Quote:
Originally Posted by shrimants View Post

If you're able to talk to the programmer, can you get a clear explanation on exactly why the following items "cant be fixed":

1) track numbering: 01 01 01 02 02 02 03 03 03 etc. under all songs, genre, and artist view (album mode has the problem too, but not as apparent)

2) no /artist/album/track, no /genre/artist/album/track

And apart from that, something ive noticed:

first button press turns screen on. This gets very annoying, dunno how your guys' experience is though. I feel like when i hit "next track", or "volume up" i expect immediate response, not "screen on". However, this kind of goes back to not enough buttons on the X3. Ipod classic has 7 total buttons: middle click, up/down/left/right click, scroll "up", scroll "down". also screen lock. X3 has 6, plus screen lock. Difference between them is that ipod didnt try to make play/pause the "select" button. So some intuitiveness and a LOT of field testing for figuring out proper methods of what feels natural becomes necessary.

I mentioned before, for example, we have a ton of menu options that have like 3-4 options. yet, for some reason instead of using play/pause to cycle through them in one direction, we need to use volume +/- in order to cycle through them, which also disables our ability to control volume through the player. If you want to make it so you can only play/pause on the now playing screen, fine. but at least let the volume be controlled in all places. Use Play/Pause to cycle through different options.

Also, I think the X3 should try to take advantage of multi-button presses. However, this is often a limitation of the microcontroller, and I wouldnt be surprised if it cant be implemented. Just a thought. Like press play/pause+back at the same time to turn off the screen or something. or volume up/down at the same time. Or even toggle hold switch while holding play/pause button.

I completely missed the page with this post.

1&2: a better explenation for this would be desirable.

Volume buttons available at all times: yes.

Multi-button: any device should be operable with 1 hand, if you ask me.
Edited by CH23 - 11/16/13 at 5:08pm
post #6389 of 12912
Quote:
Originally Posted by jkauff View Post


Don't blame the programmers for software user interface issues. That's the job of the designers--assuming FiiO is using designers. Apple did a brilliant job with the iPod UI, but most companies aren't blessed with world-class designers. The hardware design is done, we have to live with that, but there's no reason the UI could not be redesigned, reprogrammed, and included in a future firmware update.

The big question is, who's doing the software UI design and are they open to suggestions from the user base. Maybe we could get a separate thread going--I'd be happy to wireframe the results of the discussion (I do that for a living). I think we can assume that the buttons are fully programmable--we at least know they can do "length of press" operations, so they can probably do double-press and triple-press operations. Power on/off should have been a switch or button on the side--that's a waste of a UI button. Maybe we can get them to make power on/off a button combination, making the button fully available for Select functions.

I think you're on the right track but theres an underlying problem. The developers seem to be pretty closed to user suggestions from what Ive seen so far, and also the language barrier seems to be pretty huge in this case. I mean just trying to use google translate I can barely understand anything. I think that is the bigger issue, and as for the button thing I think the devs are trying to write off the X3 as a backburner project and make the X5 their main project.

I think they want the X3 to be written off as a somewhat failed attempt, and want their X5 to be their shining flagship product. I think the X3 is somewhat of a lost cause in their eyes and they dont have the man power necessary to implement the changes. And i think they have serious organization issues, and that is the real reason they cannot make themselves release simple fixes: Because the fixes we are talkign about would arguably mean that the entire team has to work together from multiple departments, and that is not something I think they are able to do at this late stage very easily. Like a non-modular code type issue or something. I'm not trying to blame or be mad when i say this, i mean its a fact of development and sometimes it happens. But i just get this feeling that this is the case. James has been weirdly silent and vague about why this issue cant be fixed, and I feel like he should know better than most why an issue this trivial and this HUGE is remaining an issue.

I mean if i owned a company and an engineer told me "oh i cant fix that", i better get a really clear explanation why.
Quote:
Originally Posted by CH23 View Post

Here's the problem with that: the big companies have a lot of patents for things they have in their code and hardware, and heaps of money to throw lawsuits at other companies, who simply can't afford it.

FiiO is a company which has stated before that they want to play by the book, so, unless they pay a lot of money for the right to use those patents, they'll have to do everything from scratch.

Just to clarify, are you implying that:

1) listing in numerical order by album, and
2) having an artist/album category and/or a genre/artist/album category

is a patented thing that no one is allowed to do? So winamp, foobar, musicbee, and every single other open source application on the face of the planet are all in gross patent violation right now because they are doing this correctly? Also every single player on android? Also every player thats been released since 1999? Also windows phone applications?

Because thats what it sounds like you're getting at. And at that point i'd have to say you're straight up wrong. This has nothing to do with patents.

ROCKBOX SUPPORT is a patenting/warranty issue. The little tweaks im talking about is something else. Its laziness.
Edited by shrimants - 11/16/13 at 5:11pm
post #6390 of 12912

Got my X3 today. Without an amp I think it's muffled, recessed highs, with not great instrument separation. However I feel it has great potencial. When I plug my amp, boy, what a difference!! Much  better treble, incredible separation, much more detail/micro-detail and better soundstage depth. A good amp is necessary for this device to shine. Now I would like to see a new firmware asap to fix the existing bugs.

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