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The Fiio X3 Thread. - Page 208

post #3106 of 17125
Well I get how dacs are different... They're making a analog signal... How well they can make that analog signal is the key. But digital is digital.

I understand if there is a loss of signal sure I'd get that. But this nonsense of special use cables is funny... It's like the 400 dollar volume knob I saw because it vibrates less.

Timing of 1's and 0's? There's a thing called buffer right? And that has to be one really poor connection or really long one to even cause enough timing change of a digital signal. It's like saying one memory card has a better audio quality because it transfers the digital file better.

We'll just agree to disagree on things.
Edited by TekeRugburn - 7/25/13 at 7:38pm
post #3107 of 17125
Quote:
Originally Posted by gikigill View Post

Paired my X3 as a transport with the iBasso combo of PB2/DB2 and it's fantastic. Drives each of my cans with authority and loses a wee bit of its warmth too.

 

Hi gikigill

 

I am also pairing it with DB2. I have noticed that the DB2 seems to produce this very soft but audible "tack tack" noise in the background when processing 24/192 flac files. I have tested with two different coaxial cables. I have also ruled out the X3 spdif encoding because I have tested it connecting with home hifi using coaxial and there is no such noise. I have also ruled out my amp as root cause because this noise does not exist when using X3 line out. I am currently connecting my DB2 with amp using single-ended connection, will test again using balanced cable next week.

post #3108 of 17125
Quote:
Originally Posted by TekeRugburn View Post

Well I get how dacs are different... They're making a analog signal... How well they can make that analog signal is the key. But digital is digital.

I understand if there is a loss of signal sure I'd get that. But this nonsense of special use cables is funny... It's like the 400 dollar volume knob I saw because it vibrates less.

We'll just agree to disagree on things.
 

Not to get too off topic but how have you come to your conclusions? Have you heard these components that you are dismissing simply because the concept is not agreeable or believable to you? What you are saying is pure speculation and just because something is expensive doesn't mean it doesn't work. I think you are extremely bias, especially evident by the price tag comment you slapped on to your response. Honestly, you should keep an open mind until you have at least heard a few of these so called "BS" components. 


Edited by Greed - 7/25/13 at 7:39pm
post #3109 of 17125
Nope, I have been using 24/192 and nothing so far. Might want to check the battery if it's running low.
post #3110 of 17125

James, in the new firmware will fix the problem with noise in the OGG-files, and will also be supported tags and album art in M4A-files?

post #3111 of 17125
Quote:
Originally Posted by Greed View Post

Not to get too off topic but how have you come to your conclusions? Have you heard these components that you are dismissing simply because the concept is not agreeable or believable to you? What you are saying is pure speculation and just because something is expensive doesn't mean it doesn't work. I think you are extremely bias, especially evident by the price tag comment you slapped on to your response. Honestly, you should keep an open mind until you have at least heard a few of these so called "BS" components. 

Yes let's not get off topic. Like i said we'll just agree to disagree about audio "voodoo". Price tag has nothing to do with it. Even if they put it for a 5 dollar "upgrade knob"... It'd still be funny to me. And I've compared different digital connections... Mostly hdmi cables and they were all the same.

But if you can distinguish between usb cables then more power to you. Logically it just doesn't make sense to me.
post #3112 of 17125
Mate, get a dCS transport and an off the shelf CD player. Test and see the difference for yourself is all I can say.
post #3113 of 17125
Quote:
Originally Posted by wiser87 View Post

James, in the new firmware will fix the problem with noise in the OGG-files, and will also be supported tags and album art in M4A-files?

 

of course, but need time. :)

post #3114 of 17125
Quote:
Originally Posted by TekeRugburn View Post

Well I get how dacs are different... They're making a analog signal... How well they can make that analog signal is the key. But digital is digital.

I understand if there is a loss of signal sure I'd get that. But this nonsense of special use cables is funny... It's like the 400 dollar volume knob I saw because it vibrates less.

Timing of 1's and 0's? There's a thing called buffer right? And that has to be one really poor connection or really long one to even cause enough timing change of a digital signal. It's like saying one memory card has a better audio quality because it transfers the digital file better.

We'll just agree to disagree on things.

I remembered fondly of that video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JYjHKv2_OqQ  jitter starts at 16mn.

it was an eye opener for me, hope it will be for you too.

 

and now back to topic : gimme my X3!!!!!!!!!  ^_^

post #3115 of 17125

The recent take (not limited to this thread, but forum as a whole) on jitter seems to be a bit paranoid to me. NwAvGuys wrote an article about it and I tends to agree with his view (google please). This article also shares similar view but the author takes it a bit further. The simplified point is, if jitter is low enough in a system, it will be inaudible - the important bit is, "is it low enough or not?" I listened to the same music using X3's coax-out feeding into Xonar Essense STU and compared it to STU running on bit-perfect mode with USB input from PC, and I can hardly tell them apart. If the effect of jitter is lowerer than the noise floor of the system or just lower than the average hearing threshold, one shouldn't be able to tell them apart.

 

I think sometime people look at 90psec and thought it will be much better sounding than 600psec. But the question is, if 600psec jitter isn't noticeable, what does 90psec sound like? Even more unnoticeable? I think one need to carefully evaluate the data at hand and how it applies to the real world.


Edited by ClieOS - 7/25/13 at 9:06pm
post #3116 of 17125

agree, there are 2 question.

 

1, 90ps looks more better than 900ps, and there are one DAP has less than 5ps jitter. but the point is is this the real test result or just something on the paper ?

 

2, what is the min jitter should a high quality DAP should has. <5ps or <50ps or <500ps.

post #3117 of 17125
Quote:
Originally Posted by JamesFiiO View Post

agree, there are 2 question.

 

1, 90ps looks more better than 900ps, and there are one DAP has less than 5ps jitter. but the point is is this the real test result or just something on the paper ?

 

2, what is the min jitter should a high quality DAP should has. <5ps or <50ps or <500ps.

I think you guys can conduct listening tests internally to see if lower jitter vales give a overall positive effect on sonics. I don't think there are any hard numbers to qualify what is good enough jitter value and what is not. I'm assuming something like 150ps would be reasonable and under a 100ps would be excellent for a DAP in 2013/2014. All I know is that I feel like my E17 could improve in this area. Not sure what the jitter values are for the E17, but I do hear it as smearing of details and a slight veil over the sound that I don't hear with higher end DACs. Overall I'm very happy with the E17 and think it presents a tremendous value at the price, but I was just hoping Fiio keeps improving their products and their goals and I wish they would include jitter improvement as part of the goal.

post #3118 of 17125
Quote:
Originally Posted by M-13 View Post

I think you guys can conduct listening tests internally to see if lower jitter vales give a overall positive effect on sonics. I don't think there are any hard numbers to qualify what is good enough jitter value and what is not. I'm assuming something like 150ps would be reasonable and under a 100ps would be excellent for a DAP in 2013/2014. All I know is that I feel like my E17 could improve in this area. Not sure what the jitter values are for the E17, but I do hear it as smearing of details and a slight veil over the sound that I don't hear with higher end DACs. Overall I'm very happy with the E17 and think it presents a tremendous value at the price, but I was just hoping Fiio keeps improving their products and their goals and I wish they would include jitter improvement as part of the goal.

 

I think the question is whether what you are hearing on the E17 is actually an issue of jitter or not. There are certainly other area that can cause distortion / smearing / veil than the jitter and improving those areas in the future might be more productive. It is worth looking into but no necessary limited to jitter only.

post #3119 of 17125
Quote:
Originally Posted by ClieOS View Post

 

I think the question is whether what you are hearing on the E17 is actually an issue of jitter or not. There are certainly other area that can cause distortion / smearing / veil than the jitter and improving those areas in the future might be more productive. It is worth looking into but no necessary limited to jitter only.

Sure it could be a number of things, and it could also be jitter. Jitter might not be audible, or it might be. My feeling is that I'm hearing the effects of jitter on my E17. This is my subjective impression.

post #3120 of 17125

@James, i have a problem in updating my playlist, and my categories are blank.. but you can access and play the files perfectly fine in 'browse file'.. I tried restoring and switch version of firmwares to no avail... Can you look into this? tq very much ( i am using mp3 and FLAC)

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