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The Fiio X3 Thread. - Page 191

post #2851 of 17162
Quote:
Originally Posted by Greed View Post

Isn't it pretty obvious what he wants? Seems to me like he wants to use the X3 as a pure source component, the DAC in the X3 wouldn't be as good as a stand alone DAC. The internal DAC section would be for portable situations.

This statement is a gross generalization and is heavily dependant on the dac (and subsequent amp) in question.
post #2852 of 17162

I just want to replace the Solo, because Solo is only for Idevice. 

post #2853 of 17162
Quote:
Originally Posted by shrimants View Post

This statement is a gross generalization and is heavily dependant on the dac (and subsequent amp) in question.

Lol generalization? Mr. Panda has already stated the ODAC sounds better to him than the internal DAC of the X3. Not sure what you are talking about.
Edited by Greed - 7/11/13 at 8:03pm
post #2854 of 17162

I still have one on order but am not quite sure about it.  I do have an e12 for portable listening and don't mind stacking with a DAP but do like the things I've read about the X3 and my current player has been falling apart (so I just cannot wait for the x5).  I like having the option to pair it up with a better amp or just grabbing the player by itself if the need arises but I'm wondering if there is a better pairing to use with the e12 amp. 

post #2855 of 17162
Quote:
Originally Posted by Greed View Post

Lol generalization? Mr. Panda has already stated the ODAC sounds better to him than the internal DAC of the X3. Not sure what you are talking about.

You said "the DAC in the X3 wouldn't be as good as a stand alone DAC." The Odac is a purpose built dac that is meant to compare (by means of objective electrical engineering specifications and standards) to a 2500 dollar Benchmark Dac1 USB (I dont remember exactly what it's called). The Fiio E10 is also a Dac. The Fiio D3 and D5 are Standalone DACs. Nuforce makes standalone DACs that measure like horsecrap as proven by NwAvGuy's own measurements, which is part of what made the Odac and O2 project pop up anyways.

I'm not trying to say the X3 is the best DAC in the world, I'm saying its a 200 dollar portable digital audio player with, frankly, outstanding specifications and measurements as it is. I dont know how well it peforms in the noise and whatnot departments as a detailed analysis on the scale of the O2 and Odac measurements have not been released, nor do i expect them to be released because 99.9% of people wont be able to make sense of them, nor will they be able to understand any of the documentation that explains them.


I'm saying your statement is a generalization because not all standalone DACs will perform better than the X3 just because they are standalone DACs. Some will, some wont.

Generally, a person would get a DAP as a frontend/storage device with sub-par hardware, and get a DAC and amp to do any audio processing and playback. In this case, as per the review, the X3 is currently an absolutely abysmal choice in comparison to the competition if you use it as a simple front end for another DAC.

It is a great choice because it is cheap and has good measurements in a small package, something that could only be achieved previously with something like the shoddily built Sansa Clip + Amp (no line out, distortion because 2 amps in signal chain) or a Cowon product (horrible bass roll off with low impedance loads), or an ipod (with LOD and a dac/amp or amp).

Getting the X3 and completely bypassing it just to use it as a frontend seems to be a bad choice. Getting it and bypassing the amp seems logical if you really cant drive your equipment. But its real benefit is that its cheaper than the competition and outpeforms it without having to carry around a veritable brick just to get some semblance of audio quality. SOME sacrifices may still have to be made, to those people i think money isnt much of an issue.
post #2856 of 17162
Quote:
Originally Posted by gmahler2u View Post

I just want to replace the Solo, because Solo is only for Idevice. 

Didnt realize you already had one. I suggest you visit their page though, as they have a refreshed one available. Looks like they have one that is for specifically ipods and one that is for both ipod and computers. I'm assuming that anything with a halfway decent usb audio driver will be able to use it, like a galaxy S3. Also, if yours has a digital input like coax, it shouldnt make any difference.

Also look at ray samuels website. The man knows his stuff.
post #2857 of 17162

deleted post

post #2858 of 17162
Quote:
Originally Posted by shrimants View Post


You said "the DAC in the X3 wouldn't be as good as a stand alone DAC." The Odac is a purpose built dac that is meant to compare (by means of objective electrical engineering specifications and standards) to a 2500 dollar Benchmark Dac1 USB (I dont remember exactly what it's called). The Fiio E10 is also a Dac. The Fiio D3 and D5 are Standalone DACs. Nuforce makes standalone DACs that measure like horsecrap as proven by NwAvGuy's own measurements, which is part of what made the Odac and O2 project pop up anyways.

I'm not trying to say the X3 is the best DAC in the world, I'm saying its a 200 dollar portable digital audio player with, frankly, outstanding specifications and measurements as it is. I dont know how well it peforms in the noise and whatnot departments as a detailed analysis on the scale of the O2 and Odac measurements have not been released, nor do i expect them to be released because 99.9% of people wont be able to make sense of them, nor will they be able to understand any of the documentation that explains them.


I'm saying your statement is a generalization because not all standalone DACs will perform better than the X3 just because they are standalone DACs. Some will, some wont.

Generally, a person would get a DAP as a frontend/storage device with sub-par hardware, and get a DAC and amp to do any audio processing and playback. In this case, as per the review, the X3 is currently an absolutely abysmal choice in comparison to the competition if you use it as a simple front end for another DAC.

It is a great choice because it is cheap and has good measurements in a small package, something that could only be achieved previously with something like the shoddily built Sansa Clip + Amp (no line out, distortion because 2 amps in signal chain) or a Cowon product (horrible bass roll off with low impedance loads), or an ipod (with LOD and a dac/amp or amp).

Getting the X3 and completely bypassing it just to use it as a frontend seems to be a bad choice. Getting it and bypassing the amp seems logical if you really cant drive your equipment. But its real benefit is that its cheaper than the competition and outpeforms it without having to carry around a veritable brick just to get some semblance of audio quality. SOME sacrifices may still have to be made, to those people i think money isnt much of an issue.

 

Okay, first of all you missed the point of my entire post. The point is there is still a market for a source component that has all the features that are currently offered by many DAPs on the market. The ability to play a multitude of file formats, as well as Hi-Res files (i.e 24/192) etc. The X3 checks most those boxes (still compromises). As a bonus, is able to play music as an AIO unit, that sounds relatively good. I was assuming that is what the poster was referring to when asking what DAC to use with the X3. Some people will want more from their X3 in terms of sound, and that is where the outputs come in. Now that we have established what exactly he wants, that wasn't the case. So really this next section is just to explain what I meant.

 

Now regarding your post:

 

The DACs you referred to as inferior to the X3, have you heard them? I'm guessing you are the type of person that loves to refer to graphs to determine if you are going to like something or not. Obviously, we see differently. Personally, I trust my ears and what I hear first and foremost, because hey, at the end of the day I'm buying this product to enjoy MY music... not analyze it. Now if people want to analyze their music then maybe measurements are more important, but IMO, they should only be used as a tool to find products that you might be interest in. Too many times have I looked at graphs and wondered why I don't hear what I'm looking at. People often forget that graphs in their own right can have subjective bias as well. An audition (actually hearing the product) is much more valuable than looking at measurements, IMO. In addition, the DACs you named are only a fraction of what is offered out there, mind you I'm talking about value products here because that is what the X3 was based around... value. I can name a lot more DACs (that I've heard) that IME would sound better than the dac section in the X3, than ones that would sound inferior. I'm by no means saying the X3 is not a good product or that its DAC section is poor, what I'm saying is that there are some users that will want the option to hook up the X3 to their desktop DACs. Fortunately, FiiO has been kind enough to give the consumer options with its multitude of outs.

 

I will say that I partially agree with you that the X3 does measure well, but that means nothing until you hear it. If the measurements match up then awesome, but if not your conclusions don't make sense and have no merit. 

 

You are criticizing me for making generalizations (see bolded text), check out the one you made. IMO, the X3 makes a great frontend to a stack. The support seems like it is moving decently fast, it plays a multitude of file formats, Hi-Res capability, gapless support (although, reported to be somewhat limited), relatively small footprint, the list goes on... Please share with us what device you think are better frontend devices.

 

Your last paragraph, I can't answer because I don't have the X3 nor want to use it as a source component. It is nice that it can be utilized that way, but that is not the reason I'm buying one. I agree that the strong points of the X3 is the value it holds and the fact that it seems to have great sound quality all on its own. 

 

PS: ODAC being designed to compare to the Benchmark DAC 1 - Never was impressed with the DAC 1, so I can't agree with what you said. Although, the ODAC for the money is very good. 


Edited by Greed - 7/11/13 at 9:50pm
post #2859 of 17162
I missed the file format aspect of it so I can agree with that. As for judging things by graphs, I can do that to a certain extent but at the end of the day I don't like a neutral balanced sound. I haven't heard the dacs in question, I was quoting them due to their varying price points. Also, I pointed out my generalization because it was precisely that and I wanted it to i ly be taken as far as a generalization.

Personally I'll be using the x3 as a source standalone. HD650 don't leave the house and athm50 are easily driven.

I also wasn't criticizing you, just pointing out that not all dacs are equal and a DAP isn't inferior just because it's not standalone. You seem to have taken it as a personal insult, and I'm not trying to make it one.

My own methodology thus far has been to let the source stuff be as neutral and flat as possible and let the headphones be the only colored thing in the chain. This didn't work with the o2 thing so I'm trying hd650 with aune t1+o2 or aune only. Just do you know my own listening presences.

Also i thought the guy wanted specifically a portable dac, not a desktop dac. To replace his cypherlabs
Edited by shrimants - 7/11/13 at 9:52pm
post #2860 of 17162
Quote:
Originally Posted by shrimants View Post

I missed the file format aspect of it so I can agree with that. As for judging things by graphs, I can do that to a certain extent but at the end of the day I don't like a neutral balanced sound. I haven't heard the dacs in question, I was quoting them due to their varying price points. Also, I pointed out my generalization because it was precisely that and I wanted it to i ly be taken as far as a generalization.

Personally I'll be using the x3 as a source standalone. HD650 don't leave the house and athm50 are easily driven.

I also wasn't criticizing you, just pointing out that not all dacs are equal and a DAP isn't inferior just because it's not standalone. You seem to have taken it as a personal insult, and I'm not trying to make it one.

My own methodology thus far has been to let the source stuff be as neutral and flat as possible and let the headphones be the only colored thing in the chain. This didn't work with the o2 thing so I'm trying hd650 with aune t1+o2 or aune only. Just do you know my own listening presences.

Also i thought the guy wanted specifically a portable dac, not a desktop dac. To replace his cypherlabs


Sorry about I wasn't clear.  Yes, I want to set up the gear like x3, intruder, and portable dac. Now i'm thinking about Odac.

 

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post #2861 of 17162
Need clarification, is X3 output impedance 0.3 or 16 for earphones?
post #2862 of 17162
Quote:
Originally Posted by Levanter View Post

Need clarification, is X3 output impedance 0.3 or 16 for earphones?

 

0.3 ohms

post #2863 of 17162
Quote:
Originally Posted by Levanter View Post

Need clarification, is X3 output impedance 0.3 or 16 for earphones?

The output impedance is less than 0.5 ohms (around 0.3 ohms as James pointed out). Where did you get the wrong information? :0
post #2864 of 17162

BTW, we have come to agreement with HDtracks and we will bundle the Dr. Chesky's Sensational, Fantastic, and Simply Amazing Binaural Sound Show into our X3/X5. it will be in 192K/24B format, detail news will be released on our official website. and also 

 

there will have a flyer inside the box so people can purchase high resolution music on HDtracks with special discount. 

post #2865 of 17162

http://www.seeko.co.kr/zboard4/zboard.php?id=cool_review&no=355 there are one reviews which includes some objective test result. and you will find the difference between X3 and some other DAP is not as big as the price. 

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