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The Fiio X3 Thread. - Page 95

post #1411 of 17127
Quote:
Originally Posted by autoexec View Post

Btw, I wonder if E17 has both ADI AD8692+AD8397 while X3 only has AD8397, then E17 should be more powerful? Thanks!

 

I can see a lot of misunderstanding on what AD8692 is doing in E17, which is not there to drive anything. AD8397 is the opamp that drive the headphone. Only the last opamp 'see' the load and able to drive it. You can chain up 10 amps together, but at the end - only the last amp is driving the headphone and the maximum power the headphone will received is determined by that last amp, not the 9 other amps before it.

 

Also, sometime extra opamps are used after the DAC as I/V or LPF stage. Those opamps don't drive anything as well. Sometime it can be a Gain + Buffer design where the Gain stage handle only amplification and the buffer stage does the driving. Other time, it can be a DAC buffer followed by an amp stage, where the buffer stage is there to protect the DAC. It can also be a differential-to-single ended stage before than amp stage. Basically, it is not always as simple as 1 + 1 = 2.


Edited by ClieOS - 6/4/13 at 8:52pm
post #1412 of 17127
Quote:
Originally Posted by ClieOS View Post

 

I can see a lot of misunderstanding on what AD8692 is doing in E17, which is not there to drive anything. AD8397 is the opamp that drive the headphone. Only the last opamp 'see' the load and able to drive it. You can chain up 10 amps together, but at the end - only the last amp is driving the headphone and the maximum power the headphone will received is determined by that last amp, not the 9 other amps before it.

 

Also, sometime extra opamps are used after the DAC as I/V or LPF stage. Those opamps don't drive anything as well. Sometime it can be a Gain + Buffer design where the Gain stage handle only amplification and the buffer stage does the driving. Other time, it can be a DAC buffer followed by an amp stage, where the buffer stage is there to protect the DAC. It can also be a differential-to-single ended stage before than amp stage. Basically, it is not always as simple as 1 + 1 = 2.


Informative! Thanks for sharing! :)

post #1413 of 17127

Still waiting patiently, somewhat, for the x3 to pop for sale from a US retailer. mad.gif

post #1414 of 17127
Quote:
Originally Posted by MattTCG View Post

Still waiting patiently, somewhat, for the x3 to pop for sale from a US retailer. mad.gif

Isn't it supposed to be released, in limited quantities, in the USA in July? I'm waiting as well,...even though patience isn't a a virtue I normally posses. smily_headphones1.gif
post #1415 of 17127

Not sure. I heard sometime in June or July. Limited quantities for sure. 

post #1416 of 17127

JamesFiiO mentioned approximate dates, but I'm not searching for the posts - LOL!!! I'm just riding it out,...and amazon.com will carry this beauty eventually. All good!!! L3000.gif

post #1417 of 17127

From the first post of this thread:
"The Third batch, >5,000pcs for the whole world. ETA, 5th, July."

I think that includes the USA :)

post #1418 of 17127

^^ Good to know...thanks.

post #1419 of 17127

Any chance FIIO will put out a DAP with ES9023?

 

It's so weird - All the mid-fi DAPs are using WM8740, and the near-1000$ DAPs are using ES9018.

Why isn't anyone using ES9023? It's very cheap and requires minimal effort around it.

 

IMHO, ES9023 sounds so much better than WM8740 - why not use it?

post #1420 of 17127
Quote:
Originally Posted by BenF View Post

Any chance FIIO will put out a DAP with ES9023?

 

It's so weird - All the mid-fi DAPs are using WM8740, and the near-1000$ DAPs are using ES9018.

Why isn't anyone using ES9023? It's very cheap and requires minimal effort around it.

 

IMHO, ES9023 sounds so much better than WM8740 - why not use it?

Saber's typically use up a lot of power. Cirrus Logic as well. This makes it a problem for using them in portable battery powered devices.

 

Also, the ES9023 is generallly called an entry level Saber, so I'm not sure if that would be preferable to the WM8740 that FiiO buys en mass, has huge experience with, and knows it front and back.

 

The X5 is said to use a PCM 1792 from T.I/B.B.

 

near $1000 DAP's? The only DAP I'm aware of that fits the condition of being near $1000 and uses the ES9018 is the iBasso DX100. Another expensive DAC, the AK100 uses the WM8740 found in FiiO units. But of course, implementation matters.

 

Power and money and buying. Saber's generally use much more power than WM8740's. NExt, to others it may not sound as good. It is just an entry level DAC from Saber whilst the WM8740 is the recommended flagship from Wolfson. Also, FiiO claims they are the largest buyer of Wolfson WM8740's in all of China(I don't doubt it). They have connections set up on buying these chips en mass and their engineers are familiar with this chip that has good sound, capabilitiues, price(as it is bought a lot), and experience with it.

 

Also

http://www.esstech.com/PDF/ES9023%20PB%20Rev%200.2aPB%20110117.pdf

http://www.wolfsonmicro.com/products/dacs/WM8740/

 

Comparing the specs, the WM8740 seems to have better numbers. This is however not a good comparison, as the only thing to really compare that matters would be the SNR. However, Saber doesn't mention which test they did to get that number whilst Wolfson uses A weighted mono and stereo at different levels. So its hard to compare.

 

Personally, I wouldn't compare them with this data as one can't really tell which one is technically superior as their testing is a bit different, and the stuff they test and reported numbers don't coincicde perfectly with each other.

 

However, I do realize that the 9023 is used in the UD100 and ODAC and has a lot going for it. But those are in desktop products. I don't really know but since it hasn't yet been used em mass portably, I would guess it goes back to it being a power hungry chip.

post #1421 of 17127
Quote:
Originally Posted by BenF View Post

Any chance FIIO will put out a DAP with ES9023?

 

It's so weird - All the mid-fi DAPs are using WM8740, and the near-1000$ DAPs are using ES9018.

Why isn't anyone using ES9023? It's very cheap and requires minimal effort around it.

 

IMHO, ES9023 sounds so much better than WM8740 - why not use it?

The astel & Kern uses a Dual WM8740 and has a price tag of being over $1500 usd will be the most expensive DAP to date... The fiio X5 which will be out by the end of the year will use a PCM1792 , which James stated sounded better than dual WM8740. I believe he also mentioned that the sabre chip is still too expensive as well..the ES9018 anyways.. The ES9023 is entry level and is probably below the regular WM8740. It's like this ES9023>WM8740>Dual WM8740>PCM1792>ES9018 (my guess). Well it all comes down implementation in the end. 


Edited by phantompersona - 6/5/13 at 4:16pm
post #1422 of 17127
Quote:
Originally Posted by phantompersona View Post

The astel & Kern uses a Dual WM8740 and has a price tag of being over $1500 usd will be the most expensive DAP to date... The fiio X5 which will be out by the end of the year will use a PCM1792 , which James stated sounded better than dual WM8740. I believe he also mentioned that the sabre chip is still too expensive as well..

The AK120 does(Dual WM8740), the AK100 doesn't.

 

They claim this for the AK100

 

Quote:
First portable device with the Wolfson 8740 DAC. 

ಠ_ಠ

 

Device is very general. It could be any portable device. 

post #1423 of 17127
Quote:
Originally Posted by phantompersona View Post

The astel & Kern uses a Dual WM8740 and has a price tag of being over $1500 usd will be the most expensive DAP to date... The fiio X5 which will be out by the end of the year will use a PCM1792 , which James stated sounded better than dual WM8740. I believe he also mentioned that the sabre chip is still too expensive as well..the ES9018 anyways.. The ES9023 is entry level and is probably below the regular WM8740. It's like this ES9023>WM8740>Dual WM8740>PCM1792>ES9018 (my guess). Well it all comes down implementation in the end. 

 

I have FIIO E17 (based on WM8740) and 2 ES9023-based DACs - ODAC and Hifimediy.

Both of them sound superior to FIIO E17.

 

ES9023 isn't even that power hungry - ODAC works fine powered by my cellphone.

It's very cheap too - hifimediy has a new 30$ USB DAC based on it.

It's quite affordable for a DAP that costs hundreds of dollars.

 

BTW, the same question can be addressed to FIIO's DAC/AMPs - why no ES9023?

 

WM8740 is not a top Wolfson DAC for a while - WM8741 and WM8742 replaced it.

post #1424 of 17127

Hear it, then form opinions about if it sounds good or not. I respect ClieOS opinion. Wait and HEAR,...

post #1425 of 17127

Ok, what's the official price tag on this in the US. I see some for sale on ebay for $235...

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