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post #12196 of 12912
Quote:
Originally Posted by uzi2 View Post
 

#TheGiantHogweed

 

The best Peter Gabriel Genesis recordings are the redbook CDs released by Virgin Charisma 1985 -

 

Tresspass CASCD 1020

Nursery Cryme CASCD 1052

Foxtrot CASCD 1058

Selling England CASCD 1074

Lamb Lies Down CGSCD1

 

They were available as two box sets with picture discs...

 

Steve Hackett's Genesis Revisited, Genesis Revisited II and the live version are all worthwhile.

 

#originalsnuffy

 

The Japanese SACDs will be the same source as the above.

The box set 1970-1975 is interesting because of the different mixes. Maybe controversial, but still well worth a listen and worthwhile for the 5.1 versions (only available lossless on SACD)

 

#TrollDragon

 

24/96 isn't going to make anything sound better

 

I have the Live At Hammersmith version and I am very impressed with the audio quality of that. I would also but Live at the Royal Albert Hall if it wasn't for one big problem. The bass on it is far to heavy. I have listened to it through Spotify Premium and the X3's DAC. Even with the bass on the X3 turns right down, it doesn't sound right. Quite a few people think the same and that it is just the way the CD's were mixed and that it didn't sound like that for real.

 

The Steve Hackett album I got was this:

http://hackettsongs.sandbag.uk.com/Store/DII-1748-12-beyond+the+shrouded+horizon+deluxe+24+bit.html

 

I can't think of much better sound while on the go than the X3 with my K550s and a 24bit recording. It sounds great. I think there may well be better sounding portable headphones at around the price of my K550s now though.

post #12197 of 12912
Quote:
Originally Posted by good sound View Post
 

Actually it is three boxed sets and only the multi-channel mixes are controversial. Personally I like them. Extracting the DSD ISO files form the hybrid SACD's is indeed a lot of work, even if you know someone who has a PS3 set up for this, as I do, but the DVD versions of the Genesis catalogue contain a DTS 24/96 mix and this can be easily ripped with software such as DVD-Audio Extractor. It's possible, I'm not fully sure, that you would have to downmix the DTS 24/96 into two channel as that particular mix may only be available in multi-channel. I have no way of knowing what effect, if any, that would have on the fidelity of the files. My guess would be very little as I had to do this with the Beatles, Love DVD-Audio whose hi-rez mix is multi-channel only, and it sounds fantastic.

 

It's basically a waste of time to extract and load DSD ISO files onto the X3 as the X3 will downsample them to PCM anyway, plus those files are truly huge. These DTS 24/96 discs, released by Rhino are out of print,  but are still relatively easy and cheap to acquire used online. The SACD's either the ones from Warner or the Japanese ones are much more difficult to acquire and considerably more expensive even if you can.

 

As far as these type of files being large, well hi-rez is what the X3 is made for and now with the advent of 128GB micro SD cards you will still have lots of room for hi-rez material. I have a 64 GB card with about 70 full hi-rez albums ripped from DVD-Audio discs at either 24/96 or 24/192.


DTS 24/96 is horrible unless you like very warm and fuzzy. I never understood the format. Yes the higher bandwidth is welcome , but if it was filled with a less compressed 24/48, it would surely have sounded better.

Forget the DVDs. The simplest way to get the music onto your X3 is to rip the redbook layer of the SACD - it will sound exactly the same as the SACD layer.

post #12198 of 12912
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheGiantHogweed View Post
 
 I think there may well be better sounding portable headphones at around the price of my K550s now though.

I owned the AKG K550's and now own NAD Viso HP50's and much prefer the sound and fit of the NADs, and they are much more conducive to portable use than the K550's. I have not owned the Sennheiaer Momentum's, but have auditioned them multiple times and I would be tempted to say that they would probably outperform the K550's as well, for my taste.

post #12199 of 12912
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheGiantHogweed View Post
 

 

I have the Live At Hammersmith version and I am very impressed with the audio quality of that.

Wise choice - if you listen very carefully, you might here my voice on that one :L3000:

post #12200 of 12912
Quote:
Originally Posted by uzi2 View Post
 rip the redbook layer of the SACD - it will sound exactly the same as the SACD layer.

Possibly for playback on the X3, but on a high resolution home audio system it is not my personal experience that the redbook layer of most SACD's sound exactly the same as the DSD two chnnel layer, far from it.

 

I also haven't found that all DTS 24/96 mixes are horrible, although I am not sure why Rhino didn't include a full fledged MLP mix for the Genesis re-masters.

 

For now the course you suggested, to rip the redbook layer of the hybrid SACD, is the route I have taken, until such time as my friend has finished extracting and delivering the ISO files from all of my SACD's, but rest assured once that has been accomplished I will be performing some listening comparisons between the two on my X5 to see if I can hear any difference.

post #12201 of 12912
Quote:
Originally Posted by good sound View Post
 

Possibly for playback on the X3, but on a high resolution home audio system it is not my personal experience that the redbook layer of most SACD's sound exactly the same as the DSD two chnnel layer, far from it.

 

I also haven't found that all DTS 24/96 mixes are horrible, although I am not sure why Rhino didn't include a full fledged MLP mix for the Genesis re-masters.

 

For now the course you suggested, to rip the redbook layer of the hybrid SACD, is the route I have taken, until such time as my friend has finished extracting and delivering the ISO files from all of my SACD's, but rest assured once that has been accomplished I will be performing some listening comparisons between the two on my X5 to see if I can hear any difference.


Have you done double blind volume equalised tests to corroborate.

 

The reason they are not MLP is they contain video (only really worthwhile for Lamb) and lossless multichannel requires DVDA not DVD.

 

One thing that is worthwhile is to mux the lossless SACD 5.1 with the DVD video for Lamb Lies Down to .mkv

post #12202 of 12912
Quote:
Originally Posted by uzi2 View Post
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by good sound View Post
 

Possibly for playback on the X3, but on a high resolution home audio system it is not my personal experience that the redbook layer of most SACD's sound exactly the same as the DSD two chnnel layer, far from it.

 

I also haven't found that all DTS 24/96 mixes are horrible, although I am not sure why Rhino didn't include a full fledged MLP mix for the Genesis re-masters.

 

For now the course you suggested, to rip the redbook layer of the hybrid SACD, is the route I have taken, until such time as my friend has finished extracting and delivering the ISO files from all of my SACD's, but rest assured once that has been accomplished I will be performing some listening comparisons between the two on my X5 to see if I can hear any difference.


Have you done double blind volume equalized tests to corroborate.

 

No, really we are going there? Nothing good will come out of that conversation.

 

The reason they are not MLP is they contain video (only really worthwhile for Lamb) and lossless multichannel requires DVDA not DVD.

 

DVD-Audio and DVD video use exactly the same type of disc. It is in the authoring. There is absolutely no reason Rhino could not have included both the DTS 24/96 mixes, which by the way on the Genesis re-masters are audio only, and both a two channel and multi-channel MLP mix. DTS themselves have done it with many a DVD-Audio release. Queen-A Night At The Opera is one such example.

 

 

post #12203 of 12912
Quote:
Originally Posted by good sound View Post
DVD-Audio and DVD video use exactly the same type of disc. It is in the authoring. There is absolutely no reason Rhino could not have included both the DTS 24/96 mixes, which by the way on the Genesis re-masters are audio only, and both a two channel and multi-channel MLP mix. DTS themselves have done it with many a DVD-Audio release. Queen-A Night At The Opera is one such example.

 

...and SACD is exactly the same kind of disc. The formats are very different. Queen- A Night At The Opera DVDA does not contain video, the lyrics are presented as a slideshow, which is the only way possible using the audio_ts format. Lossless multichannel is not possible with video_ts.

 

Hybrid DVDA/DVD discs are common, but you don't get video and lossless multichannel together.

 

I think we have different Genesis box sets. I am referring only to 1970-1975 as post Gabriel Genesis is not my cup of tea. The box set includes DVDs with DTS 24/96 5.1 and video including the original stage videos for Lamb Lies Down. It also has SACDs with the lossless 5.1 versions.

 

This is the box set I am referencing


Edited by uzi2 - 8/14/14 at 11:29am
post #12204 of 12912
Quote:
Originally Posted by uzi2 View Post
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by good sound View Post
DVD-Audio and DVD video use exactly the same type of disc. It is in the authoring. There is absolutely no reason Rhino could not have included both the DTS 24/96 mixes, which by the way on the Genesis re-masters are audio only, and both a two channel and multi-channel MLP mix. DTS themselves have done it with many a DVD-Audio release. Queen-A Night At The Opera is one such example.

 

...and SACD is exactly the same kind of disc. The formats are very different. Queen- A Night At The Opera DVDA does not contain video, the lyrics are presented as a slideshow, which is the only way possible using the audio_ts format. Lossless multichannel is not possible with video_ts.

 

Hybrid DVDA/DVD discs are common, but you don't get video and lossless multichannel together.

 

That's true unless we are talking Blu-ray. I never said anything about video and lossless audio on the same disc, I am not sure where that is coming from.

 

I think we have different Genesis box sets. I am referring only to 1970-1975 as post Gabriel Genesis is not my cup of tea. The box set includes DVDs with DTS 24/96 5.1 and video including the original stage videos for Lamb Lies Down. It also has SACDs with the lossless 5.1 versions.

 

This is the box set I am referencing

 

Yes, Rhino released separate versions of the Genesis back catalogue which do not contain a SACD disc, just the DVD-Video disc with DTS 24/96 multi-channel, audio only mix, among others. The video portion of these discs do not contain a DTS 24/96 mix as far as I know. These discs were also available in a box set.

post #12205 of 12912

Oh well... at least we've not been discussing giant slugs - Gentle Giant slugs would be a different matter...

post #12206 of 12912
Quote:
Originally Posted by uzi2 View Post
 

Forget the DVDs. The simplest way to get the music onto your X3 is to rip the redbook layer of the SACD - it will sound exactly the same as the SACD layer.

 

Sorry to interrupt: redbook layer doesn´t sound like the SACD layer (assuming that both were mastered the same). The SACD layer sounds a bit more airy with improved staging. However, the difference is very, very small. And yes, I did a DBT.

 

On the other hand, a true, high resolution DSD layer is a rare thing. Many are bandwidth limited before encoding to DSD or were derived from lower resolution PCM masters. In any case, SACDs are overrated. Its capabilities do not exceed 24/96 and the shaped quantization noise... well, let´s just say it should be removed before playback. Horrible format, to see it now resurrected in form of DSD downloads... not very good.

post #12207 of 12912
Quote:
Originally Posted by uzi2 View Post
 

Oh well... at least we've not been discussing giant slugs - Gentle Giant slugs would be a different matter...

I'd kill to get Octopus, Three Friends and In A Glass house in a nicely remastered 24/96!

:beerchug:

post #12208 of 12912
Quote:
Originally Posted by TrollDragon View Post
 

I'd kill to get Octopus, Three Friends and In A Glass house in a nicely remastered 24/96!

:beerchug:


Haha... here we go again...

Steven Wilson has remastered Power and The Glory in 5.1 and presented it in DTS HD  on blu-ray - WTF! The 3 albums you mention are far superior...

post #12209 of 12912
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marlene View Post
 

 

Sorry to interrupt: redbook layer doesn´t sound like the SACD layer (assuming that both were mastered the same). The SACD layer sounds a bit more airy with improved staging. However, the difference is very, very small. And yes, I did a DBT.

 

On the other hand, a true, high resolution DSD layer is a rare thing. Many are bandwidth limited before encoding to DSD or were derived from lower resolution PCM masters. In any case, SACDs are overrated. Its capabilities do not exceed 24/96 and the shaped quantization noise... well, let´s just say it should be removed before playback. Horrible format, to see it now resurrected in form of DSD downloads... not very good.

 

The only good thing to say about SACD was that it worked well as a surround format. It is now completely blown away by DTS HD blu-ray.

DSD may be a wonderful recording format, but that doesn't necessarily translate into the playback medium.


Edited by uzi2 - 8/14/14 at 12:49pm
post #12210 of 12912

Anyone else have Led Zep Remasters I, II, III 96/24 WAV files? How are they playing with your X3? Mine don't work and I've tried everything short of asking HDTracks if I can download them again. FWIW, they play just fine when I roll back the X3 to the older firmware. 

 

I've tried contacting Fiio support, but haven't heard back from them.


Edited by Bloody Ban - 8/14/14 at 1:28pm
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