Head-Fi.org › Forums › Equipment Forums › Headphones (full-size) › How bright are Grados?
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

How bright are Grados? - Page 2

post #16 of 55

oh boy, I could tell from the title of this thread that it was going to go back and forth.

post #17 of 55
Quote:
Originally Posted by hiyu64 View Post

I've had an SR-60, SR-325i, and PS500. 

Personally, all Grados or at least the ones I've heard are bright to a degree.  SR-325i's are extremely bright and I sold them as fast as I could since I could not sit through most songs using the 325i.  SR-60s are less bright in comparison.  

PS500(which has similar FR to HF-2s) are the darkest sounding Grados, but they still slightly bright. 

 

If you look at the Data Sheets on Innerfidelity, it'll all make sense.  The FR of highs of the Grado Reference series are very similar.  They all have a peak at 2Khz and 10Khz with the 10Khz peak increasing in amplitude when you go up from SR60 to SR325i.  The 325i has a very high 10Khz peak and a very high 3rd peak at 4.5Khz.  This is just ear rape. 

The PS500's 2K peak is almost level when compared to the mids.  It also has a bumped up mid bass as well as having a 10khz peak similar to the SR60 to SR125.  The SR225i and SR325i both have that nasty 10khz peak, but the SR225i does not have the 4.5khz peak the 325i has. 

 

whew I'm still trying to understand and learn about measurements, but it's really interesting to see how measurements match your subjective impressions

Sorry to hear that you sold your 325is's so soon, I think they are an amazing headphone that just get better and better with the more listening time they have on them.

post #18 of 55
I think the diversity of answers reflects the need to try before you buy with these headphones (and other very colored headphones for that matter).

Personally I think Grados are quite pleasant and balanced, but a quick look through my profile will reveal that I tend to enjoy what some/many people would likely consider glass cutters, so take that into context. I agree with the comment about listening fatigue from cranking them up to "hear bass that isn't there" - if you want a lot of boom and bloom, look elsewhere. As far as multi-genre listening - I would vote "yes" there as well; I think the type-casting that Grados are only good for rock (and are the only headphones that are good for rock) needs to stop. There are both other headphones that are equally good, and other genres that are equally (or more) enjoyable with Grados (depending on your musical preferences, of course). I'm not trying to downplay their abilities with rock, but they aren't a one-trick pony.

As far as finding a dealer in Rome - I'd contact Grado and ask (they're generally very responsive to e-mails). Their online "find a dealer" lists the following:

Audioclub
39 06 45429720
info@audioclub.it
Italy

I know nothing about that organization (and do not live in Italy), but I figured a quick search on their "find a dealer" page wouldn't hurt.
post #19 of 55
Thread Starter 

Heya all!

 

well I actually wanted to try something else than just Grado like the ATH-WS99 as I only tried the WS70 and find it great for my movies. (I'm a basshead when it comes to movie but hate it in my music). 

 

After reading all the awesome comment above, felt safe to give the Grado a try for my rocks and classical. Is it forgiving? As I listen classical through online radio to save space for my mp3 player as I already got 3 and they are all full of music xD [So that I don't have to charge it every week. Just three week ones. As two of it are more than 5 years old. Battery life gets annoying at times]

 

Billson :)

post #20 of 55
I think they'll do a fine job with classical - as long as it isn't really harsh or artifacted from the online compression, it should be no problem. smily_headphones1.gif
post #21 of 55

See I don't really think Grado's are only good for rock.  They are good for whenever you need some bass down low, decent mids, and you want to inject some energy into that top end.  I'd recommend choosing the lower end of the reference series SR60/SR125.  It's counter-intuitive, but I like the bottom end of the reference series better than the top end of the reference series.  You could also look at the mid-fi Grados - PS500, HF-2, etc. RS1/RS2 measure similar to the 325is, so I'd stay away.  I would also stay away from the top end of the current Grado lineup.

post #22 of 55
Quote:
Originally Posted by hiyu64 View Post

See I don't really think Grado's are only good for rock.  They are good for whenever you need some bass down low, decent mids, and you want to inject some energy into that top end.  I'd recommend choosing the lower end of the reference series SR60/SR125.  It's counter-intuitive, but I like the bottom end of the reference series better than the top end of the reference series.  You could also look at the mid-fi Grados - PS500, HF-2, etc. RS1/RS2 measure similar to the 325is, so I'd stay away.  I would also stay away from the top end of the current Grado lineup.

Have you actually heard any of these? rolleyes.gif

And the Reference Series comprise the RS-1 and RS-2. wink.gif
post #23 of 55

I think the bigger question is, will you be able to stand the comfort? I've seen a lot of people sell their Grados only because of the mesh rubbing against their ears. Personally, I don't mind at all, but comfort is also a big factor with Grados. I think your safest bet would be the SR80i, but the SR225i is a great choice as well because it's not as bright as the SR325is, but still has plenty of shimmer at top. I love my treble, but the SR325is was a bit too much for me so I sold it for the SR225i.

post #24 of 55
Quote:
Originally Posted by planx View Post

I think the bigger question is, will you be able to stand the comfort? I've seen a lot of people sell their Grados only because of the mesh rubbing against their ears. Personally, I don't mind at all, but comfort is also a big factor with Grados.

 

In my limited experience, comfort is the biggest negative factor of the SR325. I also find the fit to be sloppy (if that's a good word for it.)

post #25 of 55
Quote:
Originally Posted by HamilcarBarca View Post

 

In my limited experience, comfort is the biggest negative factor of the SR325. I also find the fit to be sloppy (if that's a good word for it.)

 

Same story goes for the other Grados, unless they have comfy pads (which I really don't like). The only pads I use are the Bowl pads and to further improve them, I reversed them so contact with the mesh is limited. Also, minor sonic improvements. Well it's difficult to say that Grados are truly universally fitting. The pads are fairly small and people with larger ears will feel like more of an supra-aural while people with smaller ears will feel like... crap because the entire ear is rubbing against the mesh biggrin.gif

post #26 of 55
Quote:
Originally Posted by HamilcarBarca View Post

 

In my limited experience, comfort is the biggest negative factor of the SR325. I also find the fit to be sloppy (if that's a good word for it.)

Comfort is the biggest negative for any Grado with small foam cups.   You need a head made of stone to be able to stand the headphones for long.  I've heard that the Big cups on GS1000/PS1000 are very comfortable.  Still, don't expect the Grado foam cups to last.  These Foam cups disintergrate after a couple of years, better to buy some aftermarket cups.   

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by obobskivich View Post


Have you actually heard any of these? rolleyes.gif

And the Reference Series comprise the RS-1 and RS-2. wink.gif


Ah yes, the RS-1 RS-2 are indeed part of reference series, but I usually don't loop them in with the SR60 through SR325i.  I consider them part of the mid-fi Grado lineup, which is a more

appropriate category for them.  As for have I ever heard the RS-1 and RS-2? No, I'll tell you that honestly.  I'm sure there are sonic characteristics that make RS-1/2 likeable by some people.  

But, they have the exact same if not worse high end FR as the 325is, which I couldn't stand.  Do headphones that have horrid objective measurements mean they sound bad?  No, not always because some people will always like some headphones subjectively no matter how badly the headphones measure objectively (cough cough Beats).  Do the RS-1/RS-2 measure bad? No, they really aren't that bad, but after comparing my subjective listening experience with objective measurements on the SR60, SR325i, and PS500 I have a pretty good idea regarding what'll turn me off in the Grado lineup.  Don't take my word for it though, always listen for yourself and decide.  

post #27 of 55
Quote:
Originally Posted by planx View Post

Same story goes for the other Grados, unless they have comfy pads (which I really don't like). The only pads I use are the Bowl pads and to further improve them, I reversed them so contact with the mesh is limited. Also, minor sonic improvements. Well it's difficult to say that Grados are truly universally fitting. The pads are fairly small and people with larger ears will feel like more of an supra-aural while people with smaller ears will feel like... crap because the entire ear is rubbing against the mesh biggrin.gif




I'd agree with both of your posts. Just for my own clarification though, you mean the white/pink part of the headphone, not the METAL mesh on the outside, right? (The fact that I even need to ask this should tell you the kinds of things I've heard about people doing...)

Anyways, I have a fairly big head, and fairly big ears, and wearing the RS-1 for long periods of time isn't really a problem for me - the lighter models are more comfortable (the RS-1 is one of the lightest, the SR-325 is one of the heaviest).


Quote:
Originally Posted by hiyu64 View Post

Comfort is the biggest negative for any Grado with small foam cups.   You need a head made of stone to be able to stand the headphones for long.  I've heard that the Big cups on GS1000/PS1000 are very comfortable.  Still, don't expect the Grado foam cups to last.  These Foam cups disintergrate after a couple of years, better to buy some aftermarket cups.   



Ah yes, the RS-1 RS-2 are indeed part of reference series, but I usually don't loop them in with the SR60 through SR325i.  I consider them part of the mid-fi Grado lineup, which is a more
appropriate category for them.  As for have I ever heard the RS-1 and RS-2? No, I'll tell you that honestly.  I'm sure there are sonic characteristics that make RS-1/2 likeable by some people.  
But, they have the exact same if not worse high end FR as the 325is, which I couldn't stand.  Do headphones that have horrid objective measurements mean they sound bad?  No, not always because some people will always like some headphones subjectively no matter how badly the headphones measure objectively (cough cough Beats).  Do the RS-1/RS-2 measure bad? No, they really aren't that bad, but after comparing my subjective listening experience with objective measurements on the SR60, SR325i, and PS500 I have a pretty good idea regarding what'll turn me off in the Grado lineup.  Don't take my word for it though, always listen for yourself and decide.  

After finding some of your other posts, it's becoming apparent that you're an open (if not vehement) critic of Grado Labs (you've started at least one "bashing" thread that I could find (http://www.head-fi.org/t/652056/headphone-manufacturers-that-give-the-worst-diminishing-returns-as-you-go-down-their-product-line for anyone interested)); most of what you've written in the above quoted post is either inaccurate or exaggerated for effect as well (I'm also still unclear as to why you keep talking about equipment with which you have no experience - it's generally considered bad form). Yes, some of it is semantics, some of it is petty, but I still can't escape feeling like you're building up a bogey-man where one doesn't need to exist. redface.gif (And because it bothers me, the Reference Series (note the camel case) only includes the RS-1 and RS-2; nothing else - they were flagship offerings for almost a decade).

I'll add that your claims regarding "objective measurements" (could you provide the specific measurements you're talking about as well - just for clarification; it does us no good to have you mention them, and not provide them), do not agree with published data from HeadRoom:



He&Bi:
http://www.geocities.jp/ryumatsuba/sr-60.html
http://www.geocities.jp/ryumatsuba/sr-325i.html
http://www.geocities.jp/ryumatsuba/rs-1.html

Or InnerFidelity:
http://www.innerfidelity.com/images/GradoSR60i.pdf
http://www.innerfidelity.com/images/GradoSR325i.pdf
http://www.innerfidelity.com/images/GradoRS1.pdf

Similar? Yes. Exact same? No. The measurements there indicate three different sounding, and different performing, headphones. Whether or not someone will like them is up to the listener, as there's also no "objectively good" or "objectively bad" - that isn't how measurements work (they are, by nature, meant to be free of bias and therefore value judgment (which is why they're objective)). "Good" or "bad" is a function of interpretation, and requires a subjective reference. Data like the above is helpful in interpreting or quantifying our experiences, but accurate prediction is much harder.
post #28 of 55
Quote:
Originally Posted by obobskivich View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by hiyu64 View Post

[...]
Ah yes, the RS-1 RS-2 are indeed part of reference series, but I usually don't loop them in with the SR60 through SR325i.  I consider them part of the mid-fi Grado lineup, which is a more appropriate category for them.  As for have I ever heard the RS-1 and RS-2? No, I'll tell you that honestly.

After finding some of your other posts, it's becoming apparent that you're an open (if not vehement) critic of Grado Labs (you've started at least one "bashing" thread that I could find (http://www.head-fi.org/t/652056/headphone-manufacturers-that-give-the-worst-diminishing-returns-as-you-go-down-their-product-line for anyone interested));

 

Some manufacturers' products tend to generate polarized reviews. Grado falls into that category (as does Beyerdynamic, apparently to a lesser extent.) While I do like the SR325is, it's probably for the same reasons that some (many?) dislike them. Everyone's entitled to an opinion, right or wrong. I'd probably say otherwise if only I'd never been wrong.

 

Reviews based solely on graphs, small bashing (with non-descriptive terms such as 'mid-fi'), and large bashing ('garbage' or 'made my ears bleed', both from another forum) say more about the reviewer than the product. While I'd prefer these go away, they're here to stay. That is, unless Head-Fi begins censoring our posts, something I hope doesn't happen.

post #29 of 55
Quote:
Originally Posted by obobskivich View Post


I'd agree with both of your posts. Just for my own clarification though, you mean the white/pink part of the headphone, not the METAL mesh on the outside, right? (The fact that I even need to ask this should tell you the kinds of things I've heard about people doing...)

Anyways, I have a fairly big head, and fairly big ears, and wearing the RS-1 for long periods of time isn't really a problem for me - the lighter models are more comfortable (the RS-1 is one of the lightest, the SR-325 is one of the heaviest).
After finding some of your other posts, it's becoming apparent that you're an open (if not vehement) critic of Grado Labs (you've started at least one "bashing" thread that I could find (http://www.head-fi.org/t/652056/headphone-manufacturers-that-give-the-worst-diminishing-returns-as-you-go-down-their-product-line for anyone interested)); most of what you've written in the above quoted post is either inaccurate or exaggerated for effect as well (I'm also still unclear as to why you keep talking about equipment with which you have no experience - it's generally considered bad form). Yes, some of it is semantics, some of it is petty, but I still can't escape feeling like you're building up a bogey-man where one doesn't need to exist. redface.gif (And because it bothers me, the Reference Series (note the camel case) only includes the RS-1 and RS-2; nothing else - they were flagship offerings for almost a decade).

I'll add that your claims regarding "objective measurements" (could you provide the specific measurements you're talking about as well - just for clarification; it does us no good to have you mention them, and not provide them), do not agree with published data from HeadRoom:



He&Bi:
http://www.geocities.jp/ryumatsuba/sr-60.html
http://www.geocities.jp/ryumatsuba/sr-325i.html
http://www.geocities.jp/ryumatsuba/rs-1.html

Or InnerFidelity:
http://www.innerfidelity.com/images/GradoSR60i.pdf
http://www.innerfidelity.com/images/GradoSR325i.pdf
http://www.innerfidelity.com/images/GradoRS1.pdf

Similar? Yes. Exact same? No. The measurements there indicate three different sounding, and different performing, headphones. Whether or not someone will like them is up to the listener, as there's also no "objectively good" or "objectively bad" - that isn't how measurements work (they are, by nature, meant to be free of bias and therefore value judgment (which is why they're objective)). "Good" or "bad" is a function of interpretation, and requires a subjective reference. Data like the above is helpful in interpreting or quantifying our experiences, but accurate prediction is much harder.

 

Do you not see the upper-mids/highs on all three Headphones on The Headroom Graph you provided? 3 Giant peaks past 1khz.  Do you not see all three headphones are similar in that regard?

If that is not bright as mentioned in the title of this thread, then I don't know what bright is.  Of course I feel some anger towards Grado.  They continue to produce overpriced headphones for their sound quality.  I've graduated out of the Grado fanclub, and I have standards now.  The cheap materials they use for the headphone itself: cheap foam pads that disintergrate, thinnest "leather" headband of any headphone manufacturer, the minimalist approach to materials, and the pizza box?  If Grado just spent a little bit more on the materials used in the headphones and R&D, the headphones can't possibly remain uncomfortable or measure as badly.  Do you think all the money Grado saves by cheaping out on the build quality of the headphone go towards improving sound quality and Research&Development? I hope you're not serious.  What Grado says on their website is exactly right "At Grado, our goal is to continually improve on the reputation we have spent close to 60 years creating"  Note: "reputation" not "sound quality"  They've improved on their reputation for building fun V or U shaped headphones - the "Grado House Sound".  They haven't produced anything good in objective measurements since Joe's HP1000.

 

Nowadays, the number of manufacturers serving the mid to hi fi community is higher than ever.  Do you know what kind of headphones Grado is still making?  The same fun V shaped headphones they've always made.  They're still targeting that same audience that likes the "Grado House Sound."  But look, now there are many more competitors that want to take a 

slice of that pie.  If Grado doesn't start serving their customers with better quality products, they can't possibly remain relevant tomorrow  

 

What I am championing for is not hatred towards Grado, but for them to provide better quality products for their customers.  If their 60 year reputation is not tested, then what worth is that reputation when all the big audio magazines give the same kudos reviews to Grado every year for everything they churn out like it's a tradition.  If I don't like something I'm very vocal about it. 

 

Do you see the difference? The lower end Grados are still bright just not as bad as 325i, RS1, RS2
Why does the SR60 have slightly better bass response than SR325i? I have no ideaconfused_face_2.gif

 


Edited by hiyu64 - 2/20/13 at 9:01pm
post #30 of 55
Quote:
Originally Posted by hiyu64 View Post

Do you not see the upper-mids/highs on all three Headphones on The Headroom Graph you provided? 3 Giant peaks past 1khz.  Do you not see all three headphones are similar in that regard?

So now they're "similar" - but a few minutes ago they were "the exact same" - I'm confused. (tongue.gif (and yes, this is my attempt at bringing levity to the situation))

No but seriously - yes, they are relatively similar. They sound somewhat similar as well, but are not identical. As I've said in many previous threads, the RS (and GS) series have a smoother and more refined top-end, and more coherent and 3D soundstage. They are a much smoother overall listen, and distinct from the (very) bright and forward SR-325. The 325 are kind of an oddling in the Grado line-up, because they are *so* bright.
Quote:
If that is not bright as mentioned in the title of this thread, then I don't know what bright is. 

Nobody is arguing they aren't bright. But bright is relative - a headphone can be bright without being aggressive or grating (and I would put the RS and GS headphones into that category), and it may not be bright relative to other headphones. There's also the question of perception, which is an individual manner. I'm not sure how this relates to anything, but yes, the answer to the original question is YES. smily_headphones1.gif

Quote:
Of course I feel some anger towards Grado. 

And from here on I stopped responding/reading, because it didn't look productive or polite. redface.gif I'm really not trying to "troll" you either - you just seem to be very upset over something (I really can't put it together for myself, but anger is often irrational *shrug*), and I don't think this is the appropriate place to deal with that.
Edited by obobskivich - 2/20/13 at 9:13pm
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
  Back to Forum: Headphones (full-size)
Head-Fi.org › Forums › Equipment Forums › Headphones (full-size) › How bright are Grados?