Originally Posted by eke2k6
And that is again JUST HOW LOUD the iem is at that frequency. Things like refinement and detail are unmistakable unless one is hard of hearing. I'm getting sick of this religious obsession over the FR as if it is the standard by which all men must abide.
You don't have to know anything about the iems, other than I repeated your experiments with the philips, and with the other iems.
Please go on and on about what you heard. I'd very much love to be educated. How is it a waste of time to explain this, when you could go on and on about how silly we are for spending money on expensive headphones?
"non-sequiturs and ad hominems"? Pfft. Your argument is invalid, pointing that out is not a personal attack.
What you have implied is that we are wasting our time and money, simply because the 3c drivers used in many cheap headphones are equivalent to those that have been researched for years.
Tell you what, I'll bet my HD600 and Asgard on it. If you can equalize the philips (or whatever your new obsession is) to sound equal to high end headphones, and have this confirmed by members of a neutral loan tour, my headphone combo is yours. If you can't, you never post again about a phone you haven't heard.
And how do you measure refinement and detail when the quality cheap phones we are talking about have negligible distortion, in some cases even lower than many flagship BA IEMs?
How did you repeat my experiment? You know you can't just take my EQ curves and carry them over to your ears, right? The resonances that need to be tamed are at different frequencies for different ears and eartips.
You know, as long as YOU know what headphones you're listening to you will never be able to eliminate bias and expectation regarding what you're hearing. Ditto any attempt on my part to convince others.
Also, if EQing to match your own ears there are hearing tests that can be only be conducted by you. I can't imagine a non-believer like you would go to the lengths necessary to conduct them. As well practised as I am, it takes me an hour to profile a new pair of headphones. I tried walking a head-fi member through the process and nothing but confusion on the verge of deafening his ears with screwed up Sinegen settings ensued. I've given up trying to explain the in and outs of the process with anything less than a face to face meeting. Of course a lab could make the necessary measurements using instruments but I don't run a lab now do I?
And now to top it off, the study I was thinking of doesn't even fully support the premise I wrote down here (that EQing cheap phones makes them sound the same as expensive phones). I know, laugh all you want, but why are the objectivists saddled with the burden of all the studying? What did you subjectivists have to do other than sit there flapping your lips? Here, take a look at the paper:
I admit I was misled by those who claimed such a conclusion from the paper, without getting ahold of the paper and reading it from start to finish myself. Bonus points for pointing out actual scientific reasons why the paper doesn't quite support what I claimed. Why do I expect nothing more than a lot of triumphant animal noises instead?
As for why I think my EQed MC3 and MH463 sound better than anything else I've heard: that study tries to simulate one phone with another. What I do instead is find the ideal sound sig with the phones I have. That ideal sound sig does not exist in any commercial off the shelf product--indeed, may never be achievable even if a pair of phones were custom built for me, for physical reasons. So the technical shortcomings of these phones (of the MH463, in any event; not sure that the MC3 have any technical shortcoming other than a drop off towards the high frequency extremes that I can't hear anyway with my ears) are offset by the fact that they have been tuned to please my ears 100%. Not even the Sennheiser Orpheus can make such a claim. OTOH, such a tuning may not please the general population (though my tuning is not wildly off the beaten track--for the etys I just tune out the 7.5kHz resonance caused by my not-deep-enough insertion and add a simple bass boost.). And then there's the above point that the response changes depending on the ears. So no, I do not expect people to find my phones consistently better sounding than other high end headphones on this hypothetical loan tour. I have taken the MH463 to a meet and one difficulty that has been difficult to surmount is, people want to demo the phones with their own music, and I can only do the processing on my computer. Once people know the reason why the phones are chained to my computer (that they must be EQed) impressions of the phones generally take a dive.