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Earsonics SM64: The Impressions Thread - Page 31

post #451 of 1359

Well the sound you hear is a result of those numbers. I'm sure you know this as a trained EE. All other stuff you are hearing is on your mind only. 

post #452 of 1359

So...the article is about an serious issue of the SM64 I never recognized before ?!! In sound industry, I believe what I hear rather than what I read. If I have a chance to listen to the headphone than the fr graph is useless to me. Fortunately, I did not see the graph before otherwise I may decide not to buy it due to the flaw and then...I will miss the chance to own the best iem in $500 range... YMMV

 

Some people like me just buy the SM64 to enjoy music. I do not expect an article will change my impression about the SM64 lol.

Some just wanna buy to measure/analyze the fr graph and call themselves serious listeners. So the SM64 is definitely not for them. 

By the way, if Earsonics admits that serious issue, may be they will call in the SM64 so we gonna have the new replacement yayyyyyyyyyyy beerchug.gif

post #453 of 1359
Quote:
Originally Posted by aras View Post

What is your point? He didn't do the measurements anyway. Is there a problem with these IEMs? Yes there is. End of story

End of story? For you, maybe. But this 'measurement over ears' issue is an ongoing trend, and if you're not familiar with the point I'm making, that's not my concern.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gasdoc View Post

Hilarious as always.  They sounded good to me before and still sound good now.  I was trained as an EE but I still know in this hobby subjectivity is everything.  Measurements are just numbers, if the sound feels right to my ears, that is all.  Peace.

smily_headphones1.gif
post #454 of 1359
Thread Starter 

To all those talking about the SM64 in terms of the graph and not in terms of how they hear the headphones, I'd like to remind you that this is the "Impressions and Appreciation thread."  So if you do not own the SM64, or have not spent time listening to it and just want to talk frequency response and cross-over, I'd urge you to start your own thread in the Sound Science section so you can dissect how frequency range works.  For those that want to continue to talk about impressions that they've HEARD, let's get back to it!

post #455 of 1359

The SM64 did has a boosted upper treble in the 8K -16K region which project an airy sound in the V1. By the way, is the review set V1 or V2? Base on my previous comparison, the V1 have a huge boost at the upper treble, but the V2 is much more tame in the upper treble and a slight increase in the lower treble. I suspect Rin may have the V1 but I am not sure.

 

Anyway, Rin has done a very good work here. I think there is not a need to suddenly throw the SM64 away just because it is "flaw" by graph. If you like it and enjoy in the past, please continue to do so. I have a chance to choose the V1 or V2 previously and I chose the more "flaw" version of the V1 with boosted high and enjoy the heck out of a "very deadly 5k hz death" IEM.

 

In most typical scenario, where one base their purchase on graphs, yes the graph serve its purposes, but in this case, its the other way round, we have heard the SM64 and have direct experience on it before we see this graph. So I think there is no need to suddenly "hate it" because graph is not "right".

 

RIn made a very good point about the wrong advertising here.

 

Just some random thoughts..

post #456 of 1359

Here's the FR graph of one of my all-time favorite, beloved earphones. These have a passionate following - yet, they measure worse than Apple earbuds. 

 

 

Possibly the worst measuring earphone on earth? Yet they go for $1,200 a pop. 

 

 

When a graph dictates your acceptance of an earphone, you have truly lost sight of the whole purpose. Music is emotion. This is why we are all here. You must listen and judge for yourself. The SM64 is fantastic sounding, aside from the measurements. If it sounds good to you, and moves you, at the end of the day that is the only thing that should matter. 

 

One of the most important lessons you can learn around here is that graphs are only one indicator of how a headphone can move you. You cannot measure emotion in an earphone. Sublime musical enjoyment is the goal. However horribly that measures is ok by me. 

 

Listen to the SM64 yourself. And get ready for a treat! 5K suckout and all.

post #457 of 1359

P.S. I think it's irresponsible to proclaim to new people that do not know better that this earphone is somehow wretched, when the truth is, it may be perfect for many people. And it is

post #458 of 1359
Quote:
Originally Posted by zach915m View Post

So if you do not own the SM64, or have not spent time listening to it and just want to talk frequency response and cross-over, I'd urge you to start your own thread in the Sound Science section so you can dissect how frequency range works.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Audiowood View Post

In most typical scenario, where one base their purchase on graphs, yes the graph serve its purposes, but in this case, its the other way round, we have heard the SM64 and have direct experience on it before we see this graph. So I think there is no need to suddenly "hate it" because graph is not "right".

RIn made a very good point about the wrong advertising here.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SoundFreaq View Post

When a graph dictates your acceptance of an earphone, you have truly lost sight of the whole purpose. Music is emotion. This is why we are all here. You must listen and judge for yourself. The SM64 is fantastic sounding, aside from the measurements. If it sounds good to you, and moves you, at the end of the day that is the only thing that should matter. 

One of the most important lessons you can learn around here is that graphs are only one indicator of how a headphone can move you. You cannot measure emotion in an earphone. Sublime musical enjoyment is the goal. However horribly that measures is ok by me. 

Listen to the SM64 yourself. And get ready for a treat! 5K suckout and all.

Seriously, fellas. All around excellent posts.
post #459 of 1359

WOW now that I can see the SM64 received so much love from us. I used to hate the SM3 for the first hour listening as the sound is so dark. However, I told to myself it will be stupid to judge an top tier earphone by just spending an hour on it and then I kept spending more time on it. The more I am listening, the more I am addicting to its sound. The Earsonics sound sign is just great to me. And again, I think I made the right decision.

post #460 of 1359

The SM64 that was measured was mine.  It is a v2.  

 

First off I want to say that Rin does very good work and everyone upset about the measurements should just relax.  There is enough room here for measurements and subjective impressions, in fact I rely heavily on both.  Rin's blog has been a wonderful source of information and I have learned many things from reading it on a regular basis.

 

When I ordered the SM64 I expected there would be some kind of scoop or suck out in the upper mid, as that has been the house sound for many years from Earsonics and to a lesser degree Westone.  The SM2 and SM3 have what I call scooped out upper mids.  The scoop starts much sooner than the SM64, and while not extending as deep, extends much further up the graph, so that the SM2/3 can sound veiled, congested and even boring.

 

Upon first listening to the SM64 I was very happy to hear much clearer mids over previous ES models and vocals sounded seductive, without sounding veiled, scooped and euphonic.  I also thought treble response sounded pretty nice with a hint of sparkle.  In fact, I absolutely loved how it sounded on the Tera player.  It was all I listened to for a week or two, as I typically do with any new IEM, in order to get to know it and an attempt to listen through the new toy syndrome halo.

 

Apparently sometime in the next couple of week, the right side tweeter dropped out?  I didn't realize it was a tweeter drop out but rather thought I'd grown more accustom to their signature and was beginning to find them much too dark for my tastes, especially compared to my other IEMs. Basically I thought the new toy syndrome was wearing off, so I was going to sell them.  Luckily for the potential buyer I had lined up, I sent them to Rin first, where he discovered the treble issues with the right side.  I immediately informed the buyer that I would be sending them back, instead of selling them.  I'm grateful to have found this out before the sale went through.

 

I believe Rin's concern is that anyone paying a premium for an IEM deserves high end, full range performance, especially when the items are marketed as such (FAD is very different, as they are purposefully trying to recreate a horn speaker sound with their odd but loved Forte series).  Can everyone hear the scoops and suckouts on various IEMs like ES, Heir, Frogbeats and even Westone?  Sometimes yes, sometimes no, especially if they aren't comparing to them to other products.  And even when they do hear it, it might not bother them and still fully enjoy it, as the appreciation threads show.  However it cannot hurt to be better educated on what you buying, especially when you are paying a premium for it.

 

I won't get a chance to hear these again, as they are going back and I'm using the funds for a HD600 instead.  But I can say that even with how deep the suck out on the SM64 is, because it was somewhat narrow in width, it still sounded clearer and better, IMO, than the Heir universals, previous Earsonics models and rivaled my favorite offerings from Westone.  On some of those, their suck out or scoop may be shallower but is much wider.  My question that will remain unanswered is, I wonder how good these would have been if Earsonics would have designed them to be technically more proficient and not contain such a deep suck out?  I guess we'll never know.


Edited by shotgunshane - 5/23/13 at 1:22pm
post #461 of 1359
Quote:
Originally Posted by shotgunshane View Post

The SM64 that was measured was mine.  It is a v2.  

 

First off I want to say that Rin does very good work and everyone upset about the measurements should just relax.  There is enough room here for measurements and subjective impressions, in fact I rely heavily on both.  Rin's blog has been a wonderful source of information and I have learned many things from reading it on a regular basis.

 

When I ordered the SM64 I expected there would be some kind of scoop or suck out in the upper mid, as that has been the house sound for many years from Earsonics and to a lesser degree Westone.  The SM2 and SM3 have what I call scooped out upper mids.  The scoop starts much sooner than the SM64, and while not extending as deep, extends much further up the graph, so that the SM2/3 can sound veiled, congested and even boring.

 

Upon first listening to the SM64 I was very happy to hear much clearer mids over previous ES models and vocals sounded seductive, without sounding veiled, scooped and euphonic.  I also thought treble response sounded pretty nice with a hint of sparkle.  In fact, I absolutely loved how it sounded on the Tera player.  It was all I listened to for a week or two, as I typically do with any new IEM, in order to get to know it and an attempt to listen through the new toy syndrome halo.

 

Apparently sometime in the next couple of week, the right side tweeter dropped out?  I didn't realize it was a tweeter drop out but rather thought I'd grown more accustom to their signature and was beginning to find them much too dark for my tastes, especially compared to my other IEMs. Basically I thought the new toy syndrome was wearing off, so I was going to sell them.  Luckily for the potential buyer I had lined up, I sent them to Rin first, where he discovered the treble issues with the right side.  I immediately informed the buyer that I would be sending them back, instead of selling them.  I'm grateful to have found this out before the sale went through.

 

I believe Rin's concern is that anyone paying a premium for an IEM deserves high end, full range performance, especially when the items are marketed as such (FAD is very different, as they are purposefully trying to recreate a horn speaker sound with their odd but loved Forte series).  Can everyone hear the scoops and suckouts on various IEMs like ES, Heir, Frogbeats and even Westone?  Sometimes yes, sometimes no, especially if they aren't comparing to them to other products.  And even when they do hear it, it might not bother them and still fully enjoy it, as the appreciation threads show.  However it cannot hurt to be better educated on what you buying, especially when you are paying a premium for it.

 

I won't get a chance to hear these again, as they are going back and I'm using the funds for a HD600 instead.  But I can say that even with how deep the suck out on the SM64 is, because it was somewhat narrow in width, it still sounded clearer and better, IMO, than the Heir universals, previous Earsonics models and rivaled my favorite offerings from Westone.  On some of those, their suck out or scoop may be shallower but is much wider.  My question that will remain unanswered is, I wonder how good these would have been if Earsonics would have designed them to be technically more proficient and not contain such a deep suck out?  I guess we'll never know.

 

Great post, Rob.. agree 100%.

post #462 of 1359

Yeah, I 100% agree too. 

 

  • Rin's measurements are an asset to the community, and I am grateful for them. Nothing against Rin here. 
  • The measurements are just measurements. Putting too much stock in to them clouds your judgement. 
  • Maybe Earsonics made an error. Maybe it could have been better. Maybe not. 

 

Bottom line is, graphs or no graphs, suckout or not, do they sound pretty damn good? Yes!

 

Of course I realize that FAD is intentionally tuning the way they do. It's just my way of showing that something so terribly wrong can be so right for some people. 

post #463 of 1359
Quote:
Originally Posted by shotgunshane View Post

Apparently sometime in the next couple of week, the right side tweeter dropped out? I didn't realize it was a tweeter drop out but rather thought I'd grown more accustom to their signature and was beginning to find them much too dark for my tastes, especially compared to my other IEMs. Basically I thought the new toy syndrome was wearing off, so I was going to sell them.  Luckily for the potential buyer I had lined up, I sent them to Rin first, where he discovered the treble issues with the right side. I immediately informed the buyer that I would be sending them back, instead of selling them.  I'm grateful to have found this out before the sale went through.

Shane, please correct me if I'm unable to read between the lines here, but doesn't that mean that the set of SM64's Rin received may very likely have been faulty, as you yourself suspected at some point?
post #464 of 1359
Quote:
Originally Posted by Oof Oink View Post


Shane, please correct me if I'm unable to read between the lines here, but doesn't that mean that the set of SM64's Rin received may very likely have been faulty, as you yourself suspected at some point?

 

Faulty yes in treble over 10k on the right side but faulty how is another question.  I'm unsure if the right side tweeter issue is just due to poor driver matching and QC or if it is some kind of soldering point or other manufacturing failure and QC.  I put a question mark behind the statement of the right side tweeter dropping out because I can't pinpoint to an exact time when they all of a sudden started sounding dark; rather just over time I felt they were too dark for me and quit critically listening, as I just assumed I was over the new toy syndrome period. It would be well worth someone sending Rin another pair to verify the current findings.  If I'm not mistaken, ES has had a history of QC issues through SM3 v1 and v2 and now perhaps with the SM64 versions.

post #465 of 1359
Quote:
Originally Posted by SoundFreaq View Post
  • The measurements are just measurements. Putting too much stock in to them clouds your judgement. 

 

 

 

 

Do you believe the measurements correlate on any level with physical reality?

 

I'm not talking about the relative weight an individual puts on them, but whether they exist.

 

It sounds as though an individual who ran a pass test using their own monitors was able to perceive the drop.  The question isn't really what weight one should put on the dip; that's up to the individual.

 

I tend to doubt it would bother most people, but it's when the distinction between subjectivity and objective reality actually becomes blurred that we start on a slippery slope.  

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