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The (new) HD800 Impressions Thread - Page 637

post #9541 of 24305
As for the distance you are simply quoting
What the intention was nothing more.
My MSB does it as does the pwd mkii
Are you stating that you know and they do not.
I have read that too though. But we do not make these products
So there must be other ways besides inside the older sacd and CD players
Al
post #9542 of 24305
Quote:
Originally Posted by purrin View Post
 

 

But isn't that exactly what I said in my original post? That folks who listen to mostly classical will not have an issue with the HD800, i.e., they will not find it bright. I simply offered an explanation as to why. Just do a frequency analysis of natural instrument recordings in Adobe Audition and compare with a track like the Talking Heads / Naive Melody (the remaster from about five years ago). If the treble content is subdued, even headphones with spikes and other irregularities in the treble like the AKG K812 or HD700 will not have any serious issues.

 

This is why I don't understand exactly what you are trying to get at.

http://www.head-fi.org/t/650510/the-new-hd800-appreciation-thread/9525#post_10395732

 

I thought my above post # 9530 was conveying the message but obviously it did not, sorry about that but I'm also not a native English speaker. I guess it would be too boring for the other members if we continue here and I am not sure if I have a chance that you get my point, so I stop trying  ;-)). No worries.


Edited by icebear - 3/26/14 at 10:47am
post #9543 of 24305

Let me spell it out. For the pop songs, I took these snapshots at the peaks where the snare drums hit.

 

This Talking Heads track is slightly too bright for my ears with the HD800. On the HD700, it's just downright difficult.

 

The track from the Voice pushes me over the edge with the HD800. It's not listenable on the HD700.

 

This track from Natalie Merchant is fine with the HD800. The record is actually kind of laid-back sounding compared to most pop records. It sounds great on the HD800.

 

This is Beet's #5 at a crescendo during the "storm" movement. It sounds absolutely fine on the HD800. And even pretty good on the HD700 or K812 (two headphones which have notable treble spikes)

 

.


Edited by purrin - 3/26/14 at 10:58am
post #9544 of 24305

:popcorn:  this is getting really good.

post #9545 of 24305

Haven't tried the mods but..

 

I think the HD800 is designed to extract the highest resolution possible. And to do this you need peaks! But the peaks (or peak) of the HD800 isn't nearly as bad as some other hp's out there. I'm a classical/jazz listener but I listen to some new quality pop releases and I've never experienced any pain or even uncomfortable trebles. The only time I ever wince a little will be with an old Jazz recording where the trumpet is typically "bluenote bright". In other words, if the HD800 sounds painful or harsh in the treble - it is the recording ime.

Lets take Daft Punk's latest for e.g. It is a good modern pop recording, mixed to sound great at high volumes- all nicely compressed with emphasized bass. It sounds amazing with the HD800! But any dampening in the cups to control the ringing would surely start to render it duller? kill the decay? Basically the atmosphere of the music would suffer imo. I own loads of ambient/world fusion stuff that is electronic and most of it sounds amazing with the Senn's because it is produced very well. Bad recordings will always sound bad with the HD800 whether they are pop rock or acoustic. 

 

I totally understand some preferring a smaller, more 'compact' soundstage and for that reason I can understand a modification. However I'm not sure how that would improve the imaging. Less ringing may make the image more focused, but I would argue about the loss of decay/atmosphere again. As far as mods for the treble goes, noo nooo. Just no. Live brass is far more intrusive to the eardrums than the HD800's can replicate... Unless they are recorded very badly (or many years ago) to begin with.

 

I'm not technically minded at all, however I do like looking at graphs for reference to equalize some hp's. I've kind of learned to use the HD800 as a bench mark. For instance (and a bad example maybe ) my current RS2's need to be EQ'd down 3 decibels in the 6k area - and they still sound brighter than the Senn's. If I was to make them equal to the Senn's I'd have to EQ them down approximately 5 db. This is crazy but true!  

 

I'm not an HD800 fanboy - I'm big on aesthetics and I'm afraid that they look a bit silly to me....  But they are the nearest to perfection in regards to sound reproduction I've heard, regardless what any measurements say. Perfection as in 'accuracy' (using subjective reference of course).  

 

I'm really starting to annoy myself now with my opinionated opinions.. So I'm going to stop typing. After this full stop.  

 

     

post #9546 of 24305
Quote:
Originally Posted by purrin View Post
 

 

To some extent I agree with that. But what do you understand about i2s signaling? Are you saying the PSA/W2S i2s standard (differential signaling with the four lines) was created by retards, that it was created by noobs who didn't care about the integrity of the signal at the tail end?

 

Have you seen DacLadder's measurements and the work he's done on improving the RJ45 i2s transmission to the M7 (which BTW was not ideal) He got measurably better results with resistor changes (for a more ideal match with the OR5), and better shielded cables. In the end, he ditched the RJ45 in favor of the LVDS HDMI of the PSA/W2S for more consistent results regardless of cables.

 

Using your logic, airplanes shaped like the F117 and B2 were never meant to fly, and separate CD transports and DACs using external SPDIF via coax should have never meant to be.

 

Only what I've read.  However, what I do know "Fo Sho" is the longer the cable the grayer background becomes.  I don't know if that's because of noise or induced jitter.  

 

I've heard one DAC with the USB to i2S conversion done on the inside of the DAC side by side with the PWD2 / OR5 / Alpha USB - (Buffalo III with the exaU2I USB to I2S Interface).  The BIII had a blacker background but fail behind at other things.  You won't notice this "of course" unless you compare them side by side.

 

This has nothing to do with the HD800 - sorry.  Back to the topic of the thread..

post #9547 of 24305
Quote:
Originally Posted by LugBug1 View Post
 

Haven't tried the mods but..

 

....boring blablablablabla by LugBug1....

 

I'm really starting to annoy myself now with my opinionated opinions.. So I'm going to stop typing. After this full stop.  

 

     

 

 

+1 :beerchug: 

post #9548 of 24305

I smell another lock coming to this thread...

 

 

Well, before it is locked, has anyone tried the Leckerton UHA-6S with HD800? Thanks.

post #9549 of 24305
Quote:
Originally Posted by preproman View Post
 

 

Only what I've read.  However, what I do know "Fo Sho" is the longer the cable the grayer background becomes.  I don't know if that's because of noise or induced jitter.  

 

I've heard one DAC with the USB to i2S conversion done on the inside of the DAC side by side with the PWD2 / OR5 / Alpha USB - (Buffalo III with the exaU2I USB to I2S Interface).  The BIII had a blacker background but fail behind at other things.  You won't notice this "of course" unless you compare them side by side.

 

This has nothing to do with the HD800 - sorry.  Back to the topic of the thread..

 

Agreed on the cable lengths and effects on the "blackground".

 

However, I think it's a stretch to say internal USB to i2s implementations are always superior in X regards. I don't know if you knew this, but USB to i2s conversion is done on practically every DAC that uses USB. I don't hear the internal VIA chip USB to i2s implementation on the M7 or XMOS chip USB to i2s PWD as better than the external implementations using the OR5, even in the "blackground" aspect. In fact, they are far far worse.


Edited by purrin - 3/26/14 at 2:50pm
post #9550 of 24305
Quote:
Originally Posted by 62ohm View Post
 

I smell another lock coming to this thread...

 

 

Well, before it is locked, has anyone tried the Leckerton UHA-6S with HD800? Thanks.

 

It's a good combination if using the amp section. The Leckerton won't shape or color the sound to work with the HD800 specifically, but it's not harshing sounding either like some of the other portables I have tried. It's pretty straight up, has sufficient power to keep the HD800 from sounding anemic (mushy), and very resolving for the price and footprint. I thought the internal DAC was kind of lean sounding. Using a warmer source (in my case, the Sony X) + UHA-6S got me good results with the HD800.


Edited by purrin - 3/26/14 at 2:52pm
post #9551 of 24305
Quote:
Originally Posted by purrin View Post
 

 

It's a good combination if using the amp section. The Leckerton won't shape or color the sound to work with the HD800. It's pretty straight up, has sufficient power to keep the HD800 from sounding anemic (mushy), and very resolving for the price and footprint. I thought the internal DAC was kind of lean sounding. Using a warmer source (in my case, the Sony X) + UHA-6S got me good results with the HD800.

 

Thanks for your thoughts, so I assume if I use a FiiO X3 / X5, or an AK100 the Leckerton would shine with HD800 as a semi-portable rig then?

post #9552 of 24305
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sorrodje View Post
 

 

 

+1 :beerchug: 

Zzzzzzz... :beerchug:

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by 62ohm View Post
 

I smell another lock coming to this thread...

 

 

Why would it be locked? No one is personally attacking anyone. It's a heated debate thats all.. and mostly on topic. 

 

I'm off to bed now, but I'm already preparing my next post. Its going to be very long and full of interesting thoughts ! :tongue_smile: 

post #9553 of 24305

@Lugbug

 

I think the point of the mod is to reduce the stray sounds inside of the cups...at least that is what I am now attempting to do.  It is not dissimilar from room treatment when using speakers.  The idea is to kill the resonant frequencies that can confuse the imaging.  If done poorly the mod could easily make the sound worse. I am not concerned with altering the FR.  I have no problem with the stock HD800 anymore, but I do think there could be improvements made on the internal "treatment"


To your other point my answer is it depends on your perspective of decay/atmosphere.  I suppose stray frequencies could have the effect of simulating decay because the reflections take longer to reach your ear.  In my opinion headphones/speakers aren't musical instruments and aren't meant to have natural acoustics.  I would argue that the less distortion of the sound by stray frequencies, the easier it is to hear the natural resonance of instruments as they were recorded.  I haven't quite satisfied myself in that regard with the mod yet, but this discussion has given me some new idea's to play around with for implementation.

 

Oh and also no heat on my part, I am just trying to explain my thought process behind the mod.  I tend to agree with you that instruments do sound quite harsh in real life.


Edited by Stapsy - 3/26/14 at 3:32pm
post #9554 of 24305
Quote:
Originally Posted by LugBug1 View Post
 

Haven't tried the mods but..

 

I think the HD800 is designed to extract the highest resolution possible. And to do this you need peaks! But the peaks (or peak) of the HD800 isn't nearly as bad as some other hp's out there.

 

I agree that the HD800 is the most resolving can out there. However, I would not dare say that treble peaks are a prerequisite for high resolution. There's no correlation to this. Some Ultrasones have peaks in the treble. They sound harsh, unrefined, without even the slightest ability of the HD800. Similar experience with the AKG K812. The K812 has a peak around 7kHz. Guess what? It's horrible in the resolution department. I had a chance to compare the K812 directly to the "lowly" HD600 last week. The K812 simply drops off huge amounts of low level information in tracks such as the Eagles Live Hotel CA, Pixies Brick is Red. Pretty much on every track, little details such as string decay, ambient cues, tape noise, etc. All gone... blank... on the K812. The HD600 exhibits no such peak. It's response is even less bright than the HD800. Then how does it still resolve so well? Finally, I hear no less capability of modded or EQ'd HD800s to extract microdetail.

 

Quote:

Originally Posted by LugBug1 View Post

 

Lets take Daft Punk's latest for e.g. It is a good modern pop recording, mixed to sound great at high volumes- all nicely compressed with emphasized bass. It sounds amazing with the HD800! But any dampening in the cups to control the ringing would surely start to render it duller? kill the decay? Basically the atmosphere of the music would suffer imo.

 

How would you know? You've admitted that you've never heard the mods to the HD800. More on this later... (BTW, I would not consider the new Daft Punk record a good recording. Too much bass and lower end.)

 

Quote:

Originally Posted by LugBug1 View Post

 

Unless they are recorded very badly (or many years ago) to begin with.

 

Bad recordings, specifically bright ones, will sound bad on even less bright headphones such as HD600, HE-500, Abyss, UERM, Paradox, etc. No need for an HD800 for that. However, recordings of marginal quality, that is which are marginally bright, will do OK with the HD600, HE-500, Abyss, UERM, Paradox, but end up as quite difficult on the HD800. It's really not so black and white. One thing I've noted is that there is a strong tendency of HD800 fans to blindly blame only the recording when in fact its really a combination of the recording and the HD800.

 

Which leads to the the following:

 

  1. The Anax mods were thrown out there as a possible solution to those who appreciated the HD800's resolving capabilities but found it difficult to use with marginally bright recordings. It was never the intent of the person and associated persons such as myself behind the mods to IMPOSE our view of how the HD800s should sound like. As I will quote icebear who sort of started this entire thing: "Obviously preferences for musical taste are different and no one is right or wrong but to decide if a headphone reproduces a sound as close as possible to the original (to the highest fidelity), my personal reference is the comparison to acoustic instruments and voices." I will again emphasize, no one is forcing you to use this mod. No one is saying this mod is right for you. That statement doesn't work only one way.
  2. The effects of the Anax mod are subtle depending upon implementation. I think there's some misperception that Daft Punk's Get Lucky will be rendered on the HD800 to sound like it was coming from an LCD-3. This is hardly the case. In fact, even after the 2.0 mods, the HD800 is still bright relative to cans such as the HD600. The possible downsides of the mod were also fully disclosed and discussed.
  3. Classical and jazz listeners likely won't need the Anax mod. This has been stated several times already. The existence of the mod or people who think the HD800 is on the bright sounding side should not be taken as a affront to people who are perfectly happy with the HD800 as is.

Edited by purrin - 3/26/14 at 3:59pm
post #9555 of 24305

I'm not reading about too many people with the HD 800 paired with the AURALiC TAURUS Mk2, but it seems like it's really hitting it out of the park in terms of reviews. Anyone here take the leap and, if you did, what do you think? I would say it's this and the CMA800R that are at the top of the list right now for me.

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