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The (new) HD800 Impressions Thread - Page 635

post #9511 of 24367
Quote:
Originally Posted by purrin View Post
 

 

I believe there is a middle ground. The LCD-3 is just way too laid back. The HE-6 is indeed somewhere in between, but it does have some issues with "etch". The HE-6 is fast sounding, but like most other orthos, not very resolving. The LCD-3, if you can hear past its laid back nature, is actually more resolving than the HE-6. The HFM's take a brute force approach with big magnets and coarse traces on the diaphragm. The Audezes have very fine traces on the diaphragm which results in better efficiency and better ability to reproduce micro details.

 

Dynamic driver technology tends to be more resolving than planar. It's really just a matter of Sennheiser making a headphone with the HD800's resolving capabilities which isn't as bright. The Anax modded HD800 or HD800 with EQ sound just as resolving to me, but without pain when used with rock or popular music recordings. The reason classical or natural instrument recordings tends to be fine with the HD800 is that they are much more bandwidth limited. One can even argue that the HD800s brightness works in favor of recordings which are bandwidth limited in the treble.

 

Moar treble is like bad photoshop sharpening on a 640x480 image (assuming low resolution). Moar resolving is like 6000x4000 image from a good camera/lens. 

 

 

The best approach relies on a combination of ear training and experience (particularly studio / pro, building amps or speakers) and measurements to confirm and keep us honest. There's much more to sound than measurements. But measurements are one of the basic tools. The trained ear should be the final decider. 

+1 well said.  I used to compare expensive Neuman mics to modded ones that cost thousands of dollar less and were very shocked to find out how comparable these mics were.

post #9512 of 24367
Quote:
Originally Posted by purrin View Post

The diffuse imaging issue has been mentioned by other people in the past. It's not anything new. The effect I am describing is not any different from having a flat screen TV smack the the middle of your speakers or having open baffle speakers located too close to the wall where we get some early reflections which muck up the imaging or create an overly diffuse sound. Let's think about the HD800 design. It's basically a driver suspended in air with a cage and the mesh screen. Unfortunately, the mesh screen isn't totally acoustically transparent, which means it acts similarly (but not nearly as bad) as the TV flat screen or wall in the aforementioned examples.
So would the HD800 be better off without the screen? Obviously it would be more fragile, but just looking at it from a sonic standpoint.
post #9513 of 24367

Would probably lose bass without the screen.

post #9514 of 24367
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stapsy View Post
 

Al I am not saying I don't appreciate the engineering that has gone into the HD800.  I think it is quite remarkable.  However I will say that I am able to form my own opinion on the other design merits and limitations of the HD800 
 

We are really talking about semantics here.  If you want to put your faith in a manufacturer to produce a perfect product then kudos to you.  However I do think it is funny that the OR5 I have seen you mention is essentially just a modified OEM hiface.  M2Tech is a much bigger company then Emprirical Audio, yet Steve has managed to squeeze an unbelievable amount of performance out of what is basically an obsolete technology.

What makes you say that this is obsolete technology? I don't see anything obsolete about it. Please expand.

post #9515 of 24367

Has anyone ever tried the HD800 with Leckerton UHA-6S Mk.2?

post #9516 of 24367
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chodi View Post
 

What makes you say that this is obsolete technology? I don't see anything obsolete about it. Please expand.

 

I think he meant to say the M2Tech is rather ho-hum, entry level, or often passed over by audiophiles who want much higher performance. Also, consider the context of Staps reply to AL regarding the application of mods. The OR5 is really a highly modded M2Tech. Staps was simply pointing out that mods can be a legitimate way to obtain better performance - that there can always be ways to improve, or at least tailor or customize even the most well engineered products to one's personal tastes.


Edited by purrin - 3/25/14 at 6:02pm
post #9517 of 24367

Hmm

Quote:
Originally Posted by purrin View Post
 

Would probably lose bass without the screen.

 

So something that creates pressure for the bass yet controls reflections?   Perhaps what you really need is expanded earcups like the R10 to move the open baffle away from the wall.

 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chodi View Post
 

What makes you say that this is obsolete technology? I don't see anything obsolete about it. Please expand.

 

The measurements and performance from hiface stuff is not that great when compared with other USB audio solutions.  Perhaps I could have been more clear but, it was kind of a flippant comment based on my discussion with Al.


Edited by Stapsy - 3/25/14 at 6:13pm
post #9518 of 24367
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stapsy View Post

 

So something that creates pressure for the bass yet controls reflections?   Perhaps what you really need is expanded earcups like the R10 to move the open baffle away from the wall.

 

The secret to the R10 is not the drivers. It's the cups.

post #9519 of 24367
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stapsy View Post
 

Hmm

 

So something that creates pressure for the bass yet controls reflections?   Perhaps what you really need is expanded earcups like the R10 to move the open baffle away from the wall.

 

 

 

The measurements and performance from hiface stuff is not that great when compared with other USB audio solutions.  Perhaps I could have been more clear but, it was kind of a flippant comment based on my discussion with Al.


I thought the M2Tech USB solution was suppose to be half decent (based on Elberoth's shootout of 15 USB interfaces).

post #9520 of 24367
It's more than decent! A great product for many that are not in the market for that extra 5% of uber fidelity. Beyond a certain "uber" point of hearing perception, spending money on uber DACs or related digital products is basically pissing money away (and I have done a lot of the latter over the years).

(Uber and out.)
post #9521 of 24367
Quote:
Originally Posted by purrin View Post

...

 

Dynamic driver technology tends to be more resolving than planar. It's really just a matter of Sennheiser making a headphone with the HD800's resolving capabilities which isn't as bright. The Anax modded HD800 or HD800 with EQ sound just as resolving to me, but without pain when used with rock or popular music recordings. The reason classical or natural instrument recordings tends to be fine with the HD800 is that they are much more bandwidth limited. One can even argue that the HD800s brightness works in favor of recordings which are bandwidth limited in the treble.

...

 

Obviously preferences for musical taste are different and no one is right or wrong but to decide if a headphone reproduces a sound as close as possible to the original (to the highest fidelity), my personal reference is the comparison to acoustic instruments and voices. Where is the bandwidth limitation between the lowest registers of a church organ and the highest notes on a violin ? Sorry I don't get the point here.

 

With an electric guitar or a synthesizer you are hearing the sound of the amp and speaker and not directly the sound of the instrument in the first place.

Rock and pop music are already working with amps and effects to make it more interesting / exciting. Most often it is mixed to sound great on "budget" (teenage budget) equipment and not on high end speakers or headphones. To take such a source material as example that the HD800 w/o mod or EQ is painful doesn't make too much sense to me. If your favorite style of music needs the HD800 to be modded or EQ'd, go for it. It's all about getting the most fun out of this hobby. I would just choose a different headphone.

 

But hey, I don't have any issues with all the negatives anyway (no mod. HD800 classic ;)).

post #9522 of 24367
Quote:
Originally Posted by Golfnutz View Post


I thought the M2Tech USB solution was suppose to be half decent (based on Elberoth's shootout of 15 USB interfaces).

 

It's decent. But we are looking for the last few percent. Elberoth's USB / SPDIF shootout also lacks one crucial element: the use of the i2s interface on DACs that will take i2s. In my experience, i2s was another step up compared to the SPDIF output from the OR5 on the PWD2 and M7. Considering how small the differences are, if the M2Tech USB is 80 points, the OR5 SPDIF 90 points, I'd say the OR5 i2s ethernet is 125 points and OR5 HDMI i2s 140 points.

post #9523 of 24367
Quote:
Originally Posted by icebear View Post

 

Rock and pop music are already working with amps and effects to make it more interesting / exciting. Most often it is mixed to sound great on "budget" (teenage budget) equipment and not on high end speakers or headphones.

 

That's nonsense. You obviously haven't heard some well engineered rock or pop albums. Not all classical is recorded or mastered well either.

 

Quote:

Originally Posted by icebear View Post

 

To take such a source material as example that the HD800 w/o mod or EQ is painful doesn't make too much sense to me. If your favorite style of music needs the HD800 to be modded or EQ'd, go for it. It's all about getting the most fun out of this hobby. I would just choose a different headphone.

 

I don't understand. First you say go for the mods. Then you say choose a different headphone.


Edited by purrin - 3/25/14 at 8:26pm
post #9524 of 24367

ALRAINBOW...

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HAIKU

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YOU'LL MAKE

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@hifimanrookie...

    How about I fill half the page with...some nonsense?

 

                                                           Headphones

 

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HD800

 

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                     Thread


Edited by Nimzerz - 3/25/14 at 9:01pm
post #9525 of 24367
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mambosenior View Post

It's more than decent! A great product for many that are not in the market for that extra 5% of uber fidelity. Beyond a certain "uber" point of hearing perception, spending money on uber DACs or related digital products is basically pissing money away (and I have done a lot of the latter over the years).

(Uber and out.)

+1 I use it and I like it.

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