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The (new) HD800 Impressions Thread - Page 598

post #8956 of 24348
Wow how fast and simple that was. Lol.
I never will understand how they can assemble people in away to discredit those who can hear the obvious.

Today I did a quick A/B of my own useing the hdvd800 with the hd800 headphones . Both we're used with redbook reference tracks is use for the purpose.
a was the above from a surface pro jriver 19.
The B was all the same but using the AP1 /PP.

Wow what a difference , as I listened to it with out the ap1 , I was saying to myself what a lousy dac this is.
But when I switched in the ap 1/PP. I then said wow what good dac. . I think it's mostly jitter that affected the changes in most dacs 2k down. And I find they all sound very good if adding the offramp or audiophileo .

Just my 2 C ,s

Al
post #8957 of 24348
Where is all this jitter coming from? Doesn't the HDVD have asynchronous USB to prevent it? I mean all of these DACs and converters use their own internal clocks to eliminate timing errors.

The clocks used by TI, C-Media, XMOS, etc. either work or they don't. If they work, then none of the DAC's made by a mainstream manufacturer using asynchronous USB processors will produce audible jitter (and the amount of jitter required to become audible is highly debatable).

Think of the digital audio input chipset of your DAC like you would the fuel pump in your car. You can "upgrade" it all you want, but your car will not perform any differently.
Edited by palmfish - 3/8/14 at 6:57pm
post #8958 of 24348
Quote:
Originally Posted by palmfish View Post

Where is all this jitter coming from? Doesn't the HDVD have asynchronous USB to prevent it? I mean all of these DACs and converters use their own internal clocks to eliminate timing errors.

The clocks used by TI, C-Media, XMOS, etc. either work or they don't. If they work, then none of the DAC's made by a mainstream manufacturer using asynchronous USB processors will produce audible jitter (and the amount of jitter required to become audible is highly debatable).

Think of the digital audio input chipset of your DAC like you would the fuel pump in your car. You can "upgrade" it all you want, but your car will not perform any differently.

 

That is grossly oversimplified. 


Edited by Greed - 3/8/14 at 7:04pm
post #8959 of 24348
Quote:
Originally Posted by ALRAINBOW View Post

I cannot explain the circumstances of the study. But to my ears there is changes in dacs big time. I do not hear cables , or hardrives . But absolutely dacs. And I can say almost all dacs greatly improve with a good USB converter too. I guess I am just imagining it all. Lol.

Al

You might be shocked!  Ask a friend to help you conduct a blind test and verify your own doubt.

post #8960 of 24348
Quote:
Originally Posted by Greed View Post
 

 

That is grossly simplified. 

simplifed, yes.  grossly, no.  IMO of course.

post #8961 of 24348
I will give you an idea but you need to read about the topic. .

Now all the bits get to the dac so you do hear all the bits. But the timing is off , why many reasons and do not buy the aso sync that's all bull to. .

Now what is jitter and why you hear it. Imagine ten bits going towards you dac all next to each other , but the spaces between them is different . That jitter. So as the dac converts the data into sounds the bits are not continuos they are chopped up . But you will read of course they are that is what sample rate is chopped up bits. But the chopped up parts are not even in separation . That difference is what jitter is and it's why all cheap dacs sound the same . And it's why using a device to help lower it makes all dacs sound much better.

I hope this helps , but read will you and I am too old to feed you guys pure bull. I may be wrong as well are but never meant on purpose .

Now go find a good jitter killer and leave me and my jitter alone .

Al
post #8962 of 24348
I will do that when I can.

Al
post #8963 of 24348
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sorrodje View Post
 

 

Where's the Eddie Current S7 in your ranking ? :popcorn:    I saw you have (had) a violectric V800 ? is the V800/HD800 combo enjoyable ? 

 

I think the S7 is a great choice in its price range.

post #8964 of 24348
Quote:
Originally Posted by ALRAINBOW View Post

Now all the bits get to the dac so you do hear all the bits. But the timing is off , why many reasons and do not buy the aso sync that's all bull to. .

Al

 

http://www.audiophilleo.com/definitions.aspx?Asynchronous%20USB

 

"Apart from all the marketing hype, asynchronous USB transfer mode simply means that a "downstream" audio device, the Audiophilleo in this case, controls when the computer sends data through its USB interface and how much at a time. The Audiophilleo becomes the bus "master", and no longer has to rely upon noisy clocks generated by the computer or its USB interface logic. Products using synchronous or adaptive USB transfer are inherently "slaved" to the computer; clocking information has to be extracted from USB packet and frame timing signals, which are seldom accurate enough for high-end audio purposes."

 

http://www.thewelltemperedcomputer.com/KB/USB.html

 

"The data transfer from the PC to the DAC can be done in adaptive or in asynchronous mode...In asynchronous mode the DAC keeps its timing constant and controls the amount of data send by the PC. By design asynchronous mode eliminates input jitter."

 

 

And yes, I know this is oversimplified too... :wink:


Edited by palmfish - 3/8/14 at 8:29pm
post #8965 of 24348
So are in or out ?
Now do you understand why it's converted to spidif ? Answer so all the bits are lined up now as spidif carries the clock and the data on one cable. And do not use a coax. Use the adaptors they give you. Why cause almost all coax cables do not match 75 ohms and more likely will cause there own jitter. . Unless you spend 225 on a cable from imperical audio .

The mKer of offramp.
Al
Edited by ALRAINBOW - 3/8/14 at 8:31pm
post #8966 of 24348

Can I just state for the record that I'm not a jitter believer.

 

Sure - if you're building the chips it makes sense to try and make that internal clock work as well as possible.

 

But you're unlikely to notice much difference unless something in your system is serioulsy broken.

 

Source material quality on the other hand.... that's were you'll see some real gains.

post #8967 of 24348
If anyone is interested in a more thorough discussion of jitter, this article by john swenson, designer of the upcoming bottlehead fpga based dac, is definitely worth a look. http://www.audiostream.com/content/qa-john-swenson-part-2-are-bits-just-bits
post #8968 of 24348
Quote:
Originally Posted by BournePerfect View Post
 

 

Hope that helps-and sorry I forgot to respond to your PM regarding this...

 

-Daniel

 

No worry ;) and thks for information.

 

About dacs. I had a Hegel HD10 after my dacmagic. all psychological bias whould have pushed me to love it: hi end, ,nice casing, well regarded brand. And during the firt days i really enjoyed what I heared but a month later, my listens became painful .. too dry, sterile & so on. I traded the Hegel vs a REGA Dac and no more problem. Then I became a dac believer. :D  . I really think now A/B comparison ans Blind tests doesn"t tell us the whole story ;) .   


Edited by Sorrodje - 3/9/14 at 1:37am
post #8969 of 24348
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sorrodje View Post
I traded the Hegel vs a REGA Dac and no more problem. Then I became a dac believer. :D  . I really think now A/B comparison ans Blind tests doesn"t tell us the whole story ;) .   

 

Well duuh, I don't think anyone can claim or suggest that all dacs sound the same. As we know, even the filters can affect the sound quite a bit. Things get much more interesting when we know all parameters of the dacs and try to compare similar ones.

post #8970 of 24348
http://www.head-fi.org/t/625793/audio-gd-master-7-discrete-fully-balanced-dac-pcm1704/1485#post_10344355

Read it , it is people from here , like myself that do understand .
I am not clIming anyone here must beleave . The only request I had is fine someone who has it and just listen both ways.
And all dacs do not sound the same. But the point is if you remove enough jitter most dacs sound pretty good and thus similar
Al
Edited by ALRAINBOW - 3/9/14 at 5:03am
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