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The (new) HD800 Impressions Thread - Page 476

post #7126 of 24297
Quote:
Originally Posted by pdrm360 View Post
 

 

Smooth Jazz and New Age music. 

O, your not talking about Miles, Coltrane and the like..

post #7127 of 24297
Quote:
Originally Posted by preproman View Post
 

O, your not talking about Miles, Coltrane and the like..

Miles Davis, but the well recorded ones ;)

post #7128 of 24297
Quote:
Originally Posted by preproman View Post
 

O, your not talking about Miles, Coltrane and the like..

with the right tubes the hd800 sounds excellent with miles - i am rolling RCA's and Chatam 6as7g's and comparing them to the 5998's 

 

the album  -  "Sorcerer" sounds a tad bit treble peaky with 5998's but its smooth as butter with the RCA's and i don't think it looses to much detail. 

 

You don't use tubes amps though - you are solid state right? 

 

Even old Tubby Hayes sax solos sound smooth to me with the RCA's. When you say that you prefer other headphones for jazz do you mean the HE6? 

post #7129 of 24297

An absolutely amazing player!

 

 

post #7130 of 24297
Quote:
Originally Posted by magiccabbage View Post
 

with the right tubes the hd800 sounds excellent with miles - i am rolling RCA's and Chatam 6as7g's and comparing them to the 5998's 

 

the album  -  "Sorcerer" sounds a tad bit treble peaky with 5998's but its smooth as butter with the RCA's and i don't think it looses to much detail. 

 

You don't use tubes amps though - you are solid state right? 

 

Even old Tubby Hayes sax solos sound smooth to me with the RCA's. When you say that you prefer other headphones for jazz do you mean the HE6? 

I mean planars n general.  They gives a more fuller sound for that music.  Not fact, just IMO

post #7131 of 24297
Quote:
Originally Posted by preproman View Post
 

I mean planars n general.  They gives a more fuller sound for that music.  Not fact, just IMO

Cool, i have heard this before but have never heard a good planar. I was interested in the LCD2 but i dont think i would give them the attention that they deserve with the T1 and HD800 around. I would have to get a top tier planar like LCD3 or HE6 but that is a long way off for now - i would have to go solid state for that i think but i  am planning on building a RJM audio Sapphire sometime this year - i wonder would the LCD3 sound good out of this? - maybe not? 

post #7132 of 24297
Quote:
Originally Posted by pdrm360 View Post
 

 

Lacks euphony on what kind of music?  The HD800 is the best for Classical, Acoustic, and Jazz.


Rock, pop, electronica, and hip-hop/rap, though I don't listen to hip-hop/rap. These genres seem to be deemed as ones the HD800 struggles on. And in my experience, with a very neutral solid state amp that reproduces the stock sound of the HD800, I can hear that lack of euphony for those genres. I think a lot of it comes from the wide soundstage and separation of sounds is not suited for those genres, and it comes off as analytical and not engaging. Imagine if a rock band on a large stage with members spread far apart from each other. It wouldn't sound good, or at least it's not what we're used to, and I think this is what the HD800 does with these genres of music that aren't suited for a wide soundstage and that level of separation.

 

However, I'm interested in how to fix this problem. Obviously, we wouldn't want to shrink the soundstage or screw up instrument separation, because to me those are good things. However, I think what could be done instead is giving added depth, body, and tactility to each instrument and sound. This way each sound covers up more space, so there isn't as much a sense of empty space in between sounds. I think we can all agree on what a congested sound sounds like. Imagine a lot of instruments in a small soundstage, so there's poor separation. The problem I think the stock sound of the HD800 has with these genres like rock or pop is the exact opposite of a congested sound. It's too spaced out, and leaves too much empty space in between that takes away from the liveliness and intimacy that makes these genres sound more natural. I think this is why people complain about the HD800 sounding lifeless or thin and lacking euphony.

 

However, as I've already done, I found certain amping, especially tube amps, can add body and make instruments seem to take up more space, so there is less empty space in between, creating a more natural and coherent soundstage for these livelier genres. The reason I brought up all this euphony stuff, and whether amping can fix it is because I think I have personally done so with my setup. I just wanted confirmation I wasn't hearing crazy things. Currently my chain that is tuned most for euphony and catered to making rock/pop sound good to me is Bottlehead Quickie -> Bottlehead Crack -> HD800. I was using the Quickie + Emotiva, my HE-500 setup, with the HD800 and it was already sounding more musical that Crack + HD800, but then the people on the Bottlehead forums recommended me to try the Quickie going into Crack. I had doubts because I've never heard of preamping a headphone amp, and it was borderline double headphone amping, which is a big no-no here. But to my surprise, not only did it sound even more euphonic and lush to me for rock/pop than Quickie + Emotiva, it also had a dead silent noise floor, which was a problem with the Quickie + Emotiva setup. I exclaimed this revelation on the Bottlehead forums, and later Doc B. the owner of Bottlehead Corporation mentioned it's all about gain stages, and not the number of boxes, and it seems the Quickie and Crack match well as far as gain stage is concerned, and I'm loving the sound.

 

Right now I still find the low end of the my HE-500 setup to have more impact and tactility for rock/pop than the HD800, but the HD800 is just as euphonic and engaging for these genres as the HE-500. It does not sound lifeless or analytical at all. However, the HD800 does have a wider (but still coherent and intimate) soundstage, and better detailing. It's really a toss-up on whether I prefer the HD800 or HE-500 for rock/pop. The bass of the HD800 is by no means weak, though it doesn't have that level of impact and feel the HE-500 makes, but it still sounds great with rock/pop. I also found the HE-500 to be more fatiguing when listening to this bass impact for a prolonged period of time. Honestly I had intended the HD800 to complement the HE-500, with the HE-500 winning hands down in rock/pop and other livelier genres, and the HD800 for classical and orchestral genres. However, with my setup, I'm finding the HD800 to be a more well rounded headphone that sounds great with any genre. :eek:

 

One last note I should make, as I've mentioned in previous posts, I had listened to a friend's HD800 before, and I found it to be sibilant and have treble issues. I remember listening to it just through my D3 USB DAC/amp, and it sounded very thin and terrible. Even with the Crack, I could still hear sibilance all over, especially female vocals. I did not have the Quickie at the time. But with my pair, it never had these problems, and even connected to the D3, it sounded decent. I thought maybe this was ownership bias, but then koiloco who has also heard my friend's HD800, and bought his HD800 at the same time as me (the $890 sale), discovered the same thing, and that his pair had had none of these issues. Perhaps our HD800s from a recent batch has a new revision or something. Our serial numbers are 25XXX to 26XXX.

 

To recap my chain:

Audioengine D3 -> Bottlehead Quickie -> Bottlehead Crack -> HD800

Audioengine D3 -> Bottlehead Quickie -> Emotiva MiniX a-100 -> HE-500

 

 

So out of interest I went ahead and used this app called AudioTool on my phone that uses the mic to record frequencies. I tested both drivers of the HD800 through variation of my chain and recorded the graphs. I made sure each test was set to 75 dB of white noise, and I aligned the mic opening as close to the center of each driver. I'm sure this is far from accurate with my phone, but it should still give a comparison between the setups. Also note that the mic obviously has limitations for upper treble and bass, as you can see the roll-offs.

 

HD800 Left D3

 

HD800 Right D3

 

Left D3 -> Crack

 

Right D3 -> Crack

 

Left D3 -> Quickie -> Crack

 

Right D3 -> Quickie -> Crack

 

 

I also combined some of the pictures to better show the difference between the most neutral stock sound from the D3, which is a solid state device, and my final setup, Quickie+Crack.

 

Left D3 vs. D3 -> Quickie -> Crack (D3 is green, D3 + Quickie + Crack is violet)

 

Right D3 vs. D3 -> Quickie -> Crack (D3 is green, D3 + Quickie + Crack is violet)

 

I noticed there was more bass with the Quickie + Crack over the D3 alone.

 

I next combined the graphs for the D3 + Crack and the D3 + Quickie + Crack to see exactly what the Quickie added to the chain.

 

Left D3 -> Crack vs. D3 -> Quickie -> Crack (D3 + Crack is green, D3 + Quickie + Crack is violet)

 

Right D3 -> Crack vs. D3 -> Quickie -> Crack (D3 + Crack is green, D3 + Quickie + Crack is violet)

 

While it's probably inconsistent measuring, especially on the left driver, but it seems the Quickie has a more linear curve, and with a touch less deep valleys.

 

Once again, these are very informal measurements. Also, I don't think these graphs describe euphony at all.


Edited by Sonido - 1/1/14 at 10:14pm
post #7133 of 24297
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sonido View Post
 


Rock, pop, electronica, and hip-hop/rap, though I don't listen to hip-hop/rap. These genres seem to be deemed as ones the HD800 struggles on. And in my experience, with a very neutral solid state amp that reproduces the stock sound of the HD800, I can hear that lack of euphony for those genres. I think a lot of it comes from the wide soundstage and separation of sounds is not suited for those genres, and it comes off as analytical and not engaging. Imagine if a rock band on a large stage with members spread far apart from each other. It wouldn't sound good, or at least it's not what we're used to, and I think this is what the HD800 does with these genres of music that aren't suited for a wide soundstage and that level of separation.

 

Sorry you chose a wrong headphones for rock/pop. Beyer T1 is a way better for rock and the HD6X0s are good enough for pop music, IMO. 

 

To me the HD800 is a Ferrari 458 and the HE-500 is a Ford F-150, of course the Ford F-150 is a better car for for transporting building equipment. :D just kidding 


Edited by pdrm360 - 1/1/14 at 9:00pm
post #7134 of 24297
Quote:
Originally Posted by pdrm360 View Post
 

 

Sorry you chose a wrong headphones for rock/pop. Beyer T1 is a way better for rock and the HD6X0s are good enough for pop music, IMO. 

 

To me the HD800 is a Ferrari 458 and the HE-500 is a Ford F-150, of course the Ford F-150 is a better car for for transporting building equipment. :D just kidding 

Kidding or not, Ferrari vs. Ford, my behind.  If you are on something, please get off it quickly.  Just like Sonido, If I don't have both HD800 and HE500, i might have believed you for real.  ;)

post #7135 of 24297
Quote:
Originally Posted by pdrm360 View Post

Sorry you chose a wrong headphones for rock/pop. Beyer T1 is a way better for rock

Sorry I disagree. Rock and pop is way better on the HD800's imo. Much more natural sounding much better bass and much easier to pick out all of the instruments and effects with. Also much easier to listen to over hours of listening time. These are my conclusions based on owning both phones.
The hd650 I listened to is not in the same league as the HD800 for pop music. Including playing mp3 flac and hi res.
post #7136 of 24297
The HD-800 covers all genres. Some folks prefer a more whumpy sound because, hey, it IS rock! A bit like turning up the bass knob on those old receivers powering Sony floor speakers. I'll hold off on T1 opinions until next week when I audition them again (3rd time). This time with a beefy tube amp. Over 3 SS amps, they weren't memorable.
post #7137 of 24297
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mambosenior View Post

The HD-800 covers all genres. Some folks prefer a more whumpy sound because, hey, it IS rock! A bit like turning up the bass knob on those old receivers powering Sony floor speakers. I'll hold off on T1 opinions until next week when I audition them again (3rd time). This time with a beefy tube amp. Over 3 SS amps, they weren't memorable.

Yes, as do all HPs including my $5 ear-buds.  It's a "thing" called personal preference.

post #7138 of 24297
Whose arguing with you or your preferences? Go for it.
post #7139 of 24297
Quote:
Originally Posted by koiloco View Post

Kidding or not, Ferrari vs. Ford, my behind.  If you are on something, please get off it quickly.  Just like Sonido, If I don't have both HD800 and HE500, i might have believed you for real.  wink.gif

Verry true indeed, with this two phones you are covereing nearly every need (well one portable is lacking). If your on a budget and listen only to pop rock the T1 is the best solution.
post #7140 of 24297
Quote:
Originally Posted by koiloco View Post
 

Kidding or not, Ferrari vs. Ford, my behind.  If you are on something, please get off it quickly.  Just like Sonido, If I don't have both HD800 and HE500, i might have believed you for real.  ;)

 

Do you think the HE-500 is a better headphones for classical music? or just better for pop music? 

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