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The (new) HD800 Impressions Thread - Page 475

post #7111 of 12139
Quote:
Originally Posted by koiloco View Post
 

Happy new year!  Just got back from a new year party.  :)

 

I think "lifeless", at least for me, is a relative term.  The term has to be put in context and described in relation to other known HPs.  In my case, it's the HE500.  For other people, it could be T1 and maybe different top end HPs.  Taken out of this context, the terms "lifeless", "cold", "analytical" will not make much sense.  Also, it will totally depend on personal preference.  Some of us might prefer HD800 exactly the way it sounds and there's no need to warm/lush it up in anyway.  Some of us will change every single component in the chain to somewhat alter HD800 to his/her liking.  For me,  I bought the HD800 already knowing/accepting the way it would sound with my current chain.  I bought it to complement what I already have (HE500), not to have another HP just like the HE500.


Sure, context is very important. I have a proposition for comparing the euphony of the HD800 to other headphones. So let's use a percentile system, comparing to all other respectable headphones, from mid-fi to summit-fi. So anything from M50 and onwards. No consumer headphones. Assume each headphone is being put through a system where no sound signature of the chain is added, so we're just comparing stock sound of the headphones here. Also assume every headphone is properly driven with the appropriate power requirements. Now that we've establish a large set of respectable headphones and parameters, let's try to get a percentile number on euphony and musicality for the stock sound of the HD800. Would you consider it top half or bottom half? The way it has been described, I get the idea it's bottom 10%ile on this rating system. Now if you were allowed to add a chain that brings out the most musicality out of the HD800, and let's keep all other headphones with their stock sound, so they don't get the benefit of a chain optimized for euphony. So what percentile is the HD800 on that scale now? Does the HD800 have the technical feasibility to break into the top 25%ile even with the most ideal setup for euphony, and still comparing to other headphones with their stock sound? Even if one optimizes the HD800 for musicality and euphony, could it be on par to headphones that have a general consensus of being euphonic at their stock sound?

post #7112 of 12139
Quote:
Originally Posted by koiloco View Post
 

Happy new year!  Just got back from a new year party.  :)

 

I think "lifeless", at least for me, is a relative term.  The term has to be put in context and described in relation to other known HPs.  In my case, it's the HE500.  For other people, it could be T1 and maybe different top end HPs.  Taken out of this context, the terms "lifeless", "cold", "analytical" will not make much sense.  Also, it will totally depend on personal preference.  Some of us might prefer HD800 exactly the way it sounds and there's no need to warm/lush it up in anyway.  Some of us will change every single component in the chain to somewhat alter HD800 to his/her liking.  For me,  I bought the HD800 already knowing/accepting the way it would sound with my current chain.  I bought it to complement what I already have (HE500), not to have another HP just like the HE500.

 

Just wanted to add that the T1 is an amazing pair with the HD800.

 

Happy new year!


Edited by pdrm360 - 1/1/14 at 2:53am
post #7113 of 12139
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sonido View Post

... but I have a question on the subject of the HD800 being described as analytical, lacking euphony, lifeless, doesn't have musicality, etc. Would you guys say that statement has been greatly exaggerated, or is spot on? Assume a very neutral DAC and amp that just puts out the sound of the HD800 without adding sounds from the chain. If this is true, how easy would you guys say it is to make the HD800 sound euphonic and musical? Would it require a very expensive amp? Or does the HD800 never really lose that sense of analytical or lifelessness, regardless of what your chain is?

Quote:
Originally Posted by koiloco View Post

... I think "lifeless", at least for me, is a relative term.  The term has to be put in context and described in relation to other known HPs. ...  For me,  I bought the HD800 already knowing/accepting the way it would sound with my current chain.  I bought it to complement what I already have (HE500), not to have another HP just like the HE500.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DarKen23 View Post

Id say the HD800 are quite amp picky, they can exhibit what youve described. Im assuming thats the reason the HD800 and tubes are talked in relation so much...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sonido View Post


Sure, context is very important. I have a proposition for comparing the euphony of the HD800 to other headphones. So let's use a percentile system...

This is an interesting discussion and one that I have been thinking about since expanding my 'next' HP search to include the TH600 and more recently, HD800. Originally I was only thinking about the TH900.

I'll try to keep this short but the way I see it, as a newbie, is that the HD800 allows you to hear the music in a way that is very close to its purest form while most HPs has in a way eq'd the sound. I already have the Ed8, which imho is one of the best portable HP (regardless of their customer service, lol), so when I got a chance to audition the TH900, I was impressed but to me, they were too similar in sound/eq'ing to my Ed8, even though they were better than the Ed8 in every way from a sound perspective. I am still going to go for a final audition soon and I am leaning towards the HD800 because it has much more room to 'sculpture' the sound/eq to a wide variety of music types. I know that this sounds crazy because each HP is designed in their own unique way... it is not designed and then eq'ed in the way that I mention above. That is just the only way I was able to describe it.

This may be the reason why the HD800 is thought to be so picky... Because it can be more finely sculptured, through the selection of various equipment, THAN most other HPs.

I know this may not sound very audiophile like and I apologize for that but this is what I've been thinking while carrying out this next HP search. I'll try to clarify if you have any questions.
Edited by Rayzilla - 1/1/14 at 6:36am
post #7114 of 12139
Quote:
Originally Posted by DarKen23 View Post
 

Could it be possible that your fingers are too stubby to fit in the ear? You shouldnt let it build up like that. I use a Q-Tip once every 2 days, habit I suppose.

I stuff my ears with foam ear plugs on a night time... Wife snores. Think this might have something to do with me not getting any excess wax. But in general I wince at the thought of anything being put deep into my ear. My old Science teacher told us that the only thing you should put in your ear is your elbow. 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sonido View Post
 

I recently got the HD800. Been listening for a while now. I know a lot depends on your chain and what amp you're using, but I have a question on the subject of the HD800 being described as analytical, lacking euphony, lifeless, doesn't have musicality, etc. Would you guys say that statement has been greatly exaggerated, or is spot on? Assume a very neutral DAC and amp that just puts out the sound of the HD800 without adding sounds from the chain. If this is true, how easy would you guys say it is to make the HD800 sound euphonic and musical? Would it require a very expensive amp? Or does the HD800 never really lose that sense of analytical or lifelessness, regardless of what your chain is?

 

Analytical yes, but lifeless? They are the opposite for me. They have always sounded full and deep, the most real sound that I've heard out of any hp or speaker. I remember being blown away by the eerily realness when I woke up and was still wearing them after a power nap. Spooked I was! by the realness.  

 

I personally think that some peeps 'just can't handle the truth' that the HD800's deliver compared to other hp's. Similar priced planars for instance have a wonderful way off coating the sound with a smooth eggshell finish. If anyone prefers this extra something on the music thats fine. But the HD800's aren't anything in contrast, they are only truer to the source ime. 

 

I also think that younger ears maybe more sensitive to the transparent treble than older ones. My middle aged ones are fine with it. But I can empathise with someone with sensitive ears and a brighter than neutral amp (Schiit SS for e.g) finding them fatiguing.

 

My preference for sound has always been for warmth over flat neutrality. I listen to too many old Jazz cd's. So I pair the ultra transparent HD800's with high impedance amps. This adds weight to the bottom end and warms em up nicely. Nice and full sounding with all the glorious detail still there. 


Edited by LugBug1 - 1/1/14 at 8:17am
post #7115 of 12139
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rayzilla View Post


That sounds like the ultimate mod. lol

Is that where they squirt water into your ear, let it sit for a minute and then let it flow out? I bought one of those 'use at home' bottles that contains seawater or something like that.

you have to use that kit for 3- 5 days to soften the wax and then go to the doctor and he uses a machine and other tools. He pumps warm water into your ear at high pressure. It is a bit sore but works really well. 

post #7116 of 12139
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sonido View Post


Sure, context is very important. I have a proposition for comparing the euphony of the HD800 to other headphones. So let's use a percentile system, comparing to all other respectable headphones, from mid-fi to summit-fi. So anything from M50 and onwards. No consumer headphones. Assume each headphone is being put through a system where no sound signature of the chain is added, so we're just comparing stock sound of the headphones here. Also assume every headphone is properly driven with the appropriate power requirements. Now that we've establish a large set of respectable headphones and parameters, let's try to get a percentile number on euphony and musicality for the stock sound of the HD800. Would you consider it top half or bottom half? The way it has been described, I get the idea it's bottom 10%ile on this rating system. Now if you were allowed to add a chain that brings out the most musicality out of the HD800, and let's keep all other headphones with their stock sound, so they don't get the benefit of a chain optimized for euphony. So what percentile is the HD800 on that scale now? Does the HD800 have the technical feasibility to break into the top 25%ile even with the most ideal setup for euphony, and still comparing to other headphones with their stock sound? Even if one optimizes the HD800 for musicality and euphony, could it be on par to headphones that have a general consensus of being euphonic at their stock sound?

....W... t.... F........

 

ummm... it's actually a lot simplier than that. you buy headphones, you listen to em. if you like em, you keep em. if you don't you return or sell em. what the hell does "euphony & musical" mean objectively on a rating system?! those are totally personal subjective terms!! lollol... so it is impossible to rate headphones on "how pleasing they sound to your ear" on some objective universal percentage system. lol!!!!

 

it sounds to me like you aren't enjoying the way they sound, and are trying to justify keeping em because you got a deal on em. i would just continue trying em for 2 weeks & maybe try pairing with different equipment, but after that if you still don't like the basic sound signature or whatever, you should just return em. it is really that simple.

post #7117 of 12139
Quote:

Originally Posted by LugBug1 View Post

 

I personally think that some peeps 'just can't handle the truth' that the HD800's deliver compared to other hp's. Similar priced planars for instance have a wonderful way off coating the sound with a smooth eggshell finish. If anyone prefers this extra something on the music thats fine. But the HD800's aren't anything in contrast, they are only truer to the source ime. 

 

I also think that younger ears maybe more sensitive to the transparent treble than older ones. My middle aged ones are fine with it. But I can emphasize with someone with sensitive ears and a brighter than neutral amp (Schiit SS for e.g) finding them fatiguing.

 

My preference for sound has always been for warmth over flat neutrality. I listen to too many old Jazz cd's. So I pair the ultra transparent HD800's with high impedance amps. This adds weight to the bottom end and warms em up nicely. Nice and full sounding with all the glorious detail still there. 

 

 

Quote:

Originally Posted by money4me247 View Post

 

it's actually a lot simplier than that. you buy headphones, you listen to em. if you like em, you keep em. if you don't you return or sell em. what the hell does "euphony & musical" mean objectively on a rating system?! those are totally personal subjective terms!! lollol... so it is impossible to rate headphones on "how pleasing they sound to your ear" on some objective universal percentage system. lol!!!!

 

it sounds to me like you aren't enjoying the way they sound, and are trying to justify keeping em because you got a deal on em. i would just continue trying em for 2 weeks & maybe try pairing with different equipment, but after that if you still don't like the basic sound signature or whatever, you should just return em. it is really that simple.

 

Exactly.

 

The HD 800 is an honest headphone. A clear window to the source. It's OK to not want this.


Edited by palmfish - 1/1/14 at 7:56am
post #7118 of 12139
Quote:

Originally Posted by palmfish View Post

 

The HD 800 is an honest headphone. A clear window to the source. It's OK to not want this.

Well said. 

 

(I just need to stop saying 'emphasize' when I mean 'empathise' I've just changed it on my original post :biggrin:)

post #7119 of 12139
Quote:
Originally Posted by money4me247 View Post

....W... t.... F........

ummm... it's actually a lot simplier than that. you buy headphones, you listen to em. if you like em, you keep em. if you don't you return or sell em. what the hell does "euphony & musical" mean objectively on a rating system?! those are totally personal subjective terms!! lollol... so it is impossible to rate headphones on "how pleasing they sound to your ear" on some objective universal percentage system. lol!!!!

it sounds to me like you aren't enjoying the way they sound, and are trying to justify keeping em because you got a deal on em. i would just continue trying em for 2 weeks & maybe try pairing with different equipment, but after that if you still don't like the basic sound signature or whatever, you should just return em. it is really that simple.

On the contrary, through my chain, I'm surprised at how lively and musical they are. They're as euphonic as any headphone I've heard. Sure with a more neutral setup, it was more polite sounding at first. I've been questioning whether that people are greatly exaggerating the whole lacks euphony thing, or if there is something wrong with my hearing.
post #7120 of 12139
Quote:
Originally Posted by LugBug1 View Post

Well said. 

(I just need to stop saying 'emphasize' when I mean 'empathise' I've just changed it on my original post biggrin.gif )

Empathize

As long as you are editing wink.gif
post #7121 of 12139
Quote:
Originally Posted by palmfish View Post


Empathize

As long as you are editing wink.gif

Agghhh I'll get it right one day :biggrin: I cant emphasize enough how important it is to me. I'm sure you can empathize with that. Got it! :bigsmile_face:

post #7122 of 12139
Lol!
post #7123 of 12139

Anyone hook these up to the project ember?

post #7124 of 12139
Quote:
Originally Posted by RAZRr1275 View Post
 

Anyone hook these up to the project ember?

 

Not myself but a friend of mine did it.  it seems to sound very good. Confirmed by two listeners who disliked HD800 before trying it on a Rega DAC + Ember combo ;) 

post #7125 of 12139
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sonido View Post
 

I recently got the HD800. Been listening for a while now. I know a lot depends on your chain and what amp you're using, but I have a question on the subject of the HD800 being described as analytical, lacking euphony, lifeless, doesn't have musicality, etc. Would you guys say that statement has been greatly exaggerated, or is spot on? Assume a very neutral DAC and amp that just puts out the sound of the HD800 without adding sounds from the chain. If this is true, how easy would you guys say it is to make the HD800 sound euphonic and musical? Would it require a very expensive amp? Or does the HD800 never really lose that sense of analytical or lifelessness, regardless of what your chain is?

 

To me it was lifeless and dull out of a $4500 SBT--> M7/M8 combo.

To me it was euphonic and musical from a $500 SBT-->m-Stage/Vali combo.

Synergy is king wrt the HD800s.

That said:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

It was pure magic w/ the $5000 SBT-->DP1/ZDSE combo. :evil:

 

-Daniel

 

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