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The (new) HD800 Impressions Thread - Page 44

post #646 of 24297

yes daniel we get accustomed to the higher resolution of a source or a pair of headphones without totally realizing it, then the return to something we loved before the upgrade proves disastrous.  this is also why many a/b trials are necessary over a period of time before deciding which equipment to keep and which to retire...

post #647 of 24297

It seems like the only thing you consider in your book is the frequency range, basically bass, mids, and treble. However, you must give mind to the other aspects of sound such as sound stage, presentation, resolution, imaging, and more informal aspects like emotion imparted by synergy and harmony of the whole, when you're at this level of audio fidelity.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by RustA View Post

 

So tell me the whole story with amplifiers and DACs... There are several great cheap amplifiers with enough current and enough voltage to deliver all the power needed. What else are you searching sound-wise? High-end amplifiers and DACs do maybe offer higher level of detail with lower jitter but tell me why I cannot enjoy my HD800 to the full extend with O2 which is supposed to have a horrible synergy with HD800?

post #648 of 24297
Quote:
Originally Posted by RustA View Post

 

I hooked my HD800 to my laptop's output and still I am enjoying them... I don't see a reason why I cannot. It's a worse sound but it's still the same headphone and it does not sound horrible.


I just dislike this "properly driven" statement because too many people connects it with money here (and don't try to tell me you didn't notice this before, it's far too frequent here)... And it's especially associated with HD800 and HE-6. I haven't heard HE-6 but with HD800, I don't see anything difficult in driving them to sound great. They have high sensitivity and quite acceptable power demands. They don't even need much current.

 

I just don¨t think that any amplifier or DAC can solve problems that you have with a pair of headphones. As you said, the differences are subtle and if you only consider your headphone to lack something very subtle to be perfect, it's most probably not an issue at all. And if it is, why to spend money on something uncertain if you can exactly address your issue and fix it with an equalizer or crossfeed (etc.)?

 

But, sorry for derailing the thread... I just wanted to point out that I strongly disagree with a statement that HD800 is difficult to drive properly or that it cannot sound great with the majority of amplifiers or DACs. It's still a pair of headphones, nothing more. And it will always sound like HD800 whatever amp or DAC you use them with.

 

 

Look up top at the bold.  This is what you said.  This is what I don't want.  "A worse sound"  That's the hole point in all of this.  Trying not to get that worse sound as you put it.  

 

If you haven't had any experience with the HE-6 they you are not in the know.   As I said hook the HE-6 up to your laptop - then hook them up to a quality speaker amp.  Then report back.  I would love to read your impressions.  

 

My HD800s (2nd pair) sounds horrible out of my iPod.  It gives me that worse sound.  Why would I want that.  If you are able to enjoy the sound no matter what they're hooked up to - then more power to you.  But is it fair to say we should not go after that 3 to 5% more of a better sound - that just so happens to come out of so called better amps?


Edited by preproman - 3/7/13 at 12:48pm
post #649 of 24297
Indeed. I find it amusing when the Fiio/Objective propogandists refuse to accept that there are those that have actually put their time and resources where their mouth is, and actually found out based on real world experience, that there are indeed great sonic improvements to be found with higher end gear-especially in regards to the HD 800. Everyone these days wants something for free, the easy road if you will, and will never know what they are missing. It's amusing to watch them bark at the moon though, ignoring the testaments of those who have walked the walk. It took me me 3 pairs of HD 800s, and 4 amps to even 'like' them, let alone love them. I put my time, energy, frustrations, and $$ in regards to this headphone more than any other-and it has paid off in an incredible way. Glad I for one didn't base my opinions on a graph, or a sceptic's budget. wink.gif

-Daniel
post #650 of 24297
Quote:
Originally Posted by Girls Generation View Post

It seems like the only thing you consider in your book is the frequency range, basically bass, mids, and treble. However, you must give mind to the other aspects of sound such as sound stage, presentation, resolution, imaging, and more informal aspects like emotion imparted by synergy and harmony of the whole, when you're at this level of audio fidelity.

 

 

What is "presentation", "resolution", "harmony" in terms of sound? Soundstage and imaging are both associated with headphones, with construction and positioning of their drivers. Of course, you could increase both soundstage or imaging with emphasising certain high frequency content, or through improving the level of detail, lowering jitter etc. But I don't why you should get "better" soundstage or imaging if you use two amplifiers with the same frequency response and the other technical aspects mentioned before, and which deliver the same power to the headphone.

 

However, if you have any reliable papers elaborating on amplifiers/DACs improving soundstage or imaging, I would gladly read them... To be honest, I would really appreciate that because I am aware about anything like that.

post #651 of 24297
Quote:
Originally Posted by RustA View Post

 

So tell me the whole story with amplifiers and DACs... There are several great cheap amplifiers with enough current and enough voltage to deliver all the power needed. What else are you searching sound-wise? High-end amplifiers and DACs do maybe offer higher level of detail with lower jitter but tell me why I cannot enjoy my HD800 to the full extend with O2 which is supposed to have a horrible synergy with HD800?

 

 

Who's saying you can't.  You can enjoy what you want to enjoy - that's up to you.  Tell me why I can't go after that 3 to 5% increase in sound quality with better amplification?  

 

Or are you saying better amplification won't give me that 3 to 5% increase?

post #652 of 24297
Quote:
Originally Posted by RustA View Post

What is "presentation", "resolution", "harmony" in terms of sound? Soundstage and imaging are both associated with headphones, with construction and positioning of their drivers. Of course, you could increase both soundstage or imaging with emphasising certain high frequency content, or through improving the level of detail, lowering jitter etc. But I don't why you should get "better" soundstage or imaging if you use two amplifiers with the same frequency response and the other technical aspects mentioned before, and which deliver the same power to the headphone.

However, if you have any reliable papers elaborating on amplifiers/DACs improving soundstage or imaging, I would gladly read them... To be honest, I would really appreciate that because I am aware about anything like that.
[/quotSo because there isn't currently a machine that can measure these clearly audible traits-you deny their existence/importance???? Good luck with life, Rusta. rolleyes.gif

-Daniel
post #653 of 24297

I sure do love my 800's.

 

 

Oh, carry on. I feel Rust coming to his senses. tongue.gif

post #654 of 24297
Quote:
Originally Posted by BournePerfect View Post

Indeed. I find it amusing when the Fiio/Objective propogandists refuse to accept that there are those that have actually put their time and resources where their mouth is, and actually found out based on real world experience, that there are indeed great sonic improvements to be found with higher end gear-especially in regards to the HD 800. Everyone these days wants something for free, the easy road if you will, and will never know what they are missing. It's amusing to watch them bark at the moon though, ignoring the testaments of those who have walked the walk. It took me me 3 pairs of HD 800s, and 4 amps to even 'like' them, let alone love them. I put my time, energy, frustrations, and $$ in regards to this headphone more than any other-and it has paid off in an incredible way. Glad I for one didn't base my opinions on a graph, or a sceptic's budget. wink.gif

-Daniel

 

I would like to hear those GREAT improvements using different amplifiers or DACs... "great" is a word that means much. It means something is very significantly better and that it is possible to spot it immediately. Great is a difference that I hear between my HD800 and crappy Acer IEMs. So I assume your superexpensive amplifier transforms HD800 in the same significant way how I hear the difference between HD800 and those crappy Acer IEMs?

 

I don't refuse to accept that there are better amplifier and DACs than O2 and ODAC... I refuse to accept your $tatement that you hear GREAT difference with different amplifiers or DACs.

 

But this discussion really leads to nowhere... So I will stop. I don¨t know why I tried to discuss about this on head-fi... Silly me. rolleyes.gif


Edited by RustA - 3/7/13 at 12:34pm
post #655 of 24297
Quote:
Originally Posted by RustA View Post

I would like to hear those GREAT improvements using different amplifiers or DACs... "great" is a word that means much. It means something is very significantly better and that it is possible to spot it immediately. Great is a difference that I hear between my HD800 and crappy Acer IEMs. So I assume your superexpensive amplifier transforms HD800 in the same significant way how I hear the difference between HD800 and those crappy Acer IEMs?

I don't refuse to accept that there are better amplifier and DACs than O2 and ODAC... I refuse to accept your $tatement that you hear GREAT difference with different amplifiers or DACs.

No you don't. If you did, you'd put the time, effort, and money required to find out yourself. I have done that. You have not, it seems. So before you keep carrying on like a frustrated stubborn child, might I suggest gaining your own experience firsthand, rather than helplessly trying to refute those that have? Experience trumps aimless scepticism I'm afraid. Your loss I suppose.

-Daniel
post #656 of 24297

I very honestly wish I could be happy plugging my HD800 or LCD-3 into my iPod and calling it good. I can't. I've tried.

 

Bottom line, do what works for you, but don't expect others to do or believe the same. That's not how audio works -- or how anything works, really.

post #657 of 24297
Quote:
Originally Posted by BournePerfect View Post


No you don't. If you did, you'd put the time, effort, and money required to find out yourself. I have done that. You have not, it seems. So before you keep carrying on like a frustrated stubborn child, might I suggest gaining your own experience firsthand, rather than helplessly trying to refute those that have? Experience trumps aimless scepticism I'm afraid. Your loss I suppose.

-Daniel

 

Eh? Do you realise that there are people who really care about their money very much? I have people who I want to make happy, I have another things to spend money for in order to survive and I simply didn't hear any spectacular differences with sub1000USD devices I have heard so far. O2/ODAC outperformed them all. And at last, I am not willing to spend more on amp or DAC than on the headphone itself. The headphone is what makes the real difference, not amp or DAC, in my view. By the way, it's the music that counts even more than the headphones... At least this is how I see it. So I am going to spend the highest amount of money towards the music.

 

By the way, I am in a search for a quality 1000USD amp/DAC in one for HD800, preproman can confirm this. ,-) However, nothing seems to be impressive enough... If you can suggest anything worth it, I would gladly appreciate that.

 

I like HD800 that much that I am not interested in any other pair of headphones. Now I am trying to find a very good and versatile amp/DAC unit for it... No luck still.

post #658 of 24297
Quote:
Originally Posted by RustA View Post

 

Eh? Do you realise that there are people who really care about their money very much? I have people who I want to make happy, I have another things to spend money for in order to survive and I simply didn't hear any spectacular differences with sub1000USD devices I have heard so far. O2/ODAC outperformed them all. And at last, I am not willing to spend more on amp or DAC than on the headphone itself. The headphone is what makes the real difference, not amp or DAC, in my view. By the way, it's the music that counts even more than the headphones... At least this is how I see it. So I am going to spend the highest amount of money towards the music.

 

By the way, I am in a search for a quality 1000USD amp/DAC in one for HD800, preproman can confirm this. ,-) However, nothing seems to be impressive enough... If you can suggest anything worth it, I would gladly appreciate that.

 

I like HD800 that much that I am not interested in any other pair of headphones. Now I am trying to find a very good and versatile amp/DAC unit for it... No luck still.

 

 

Might have to go after the Conductor.  It's a bit more expensive.  I can't think of anything else..  

post #659 of 24297
I'm not telling you how to spend your money-I'm telling you to stop telling people with real world experience in matters where you don't have that same experience-what they hear or cannot hear. That is insane.

In regards to your under 1K combo for the HD800 (now we are getting somewhere!), I haven't tried a lot. I am however, a huge fan of Audio GD's 1704 dacs-so if he has a combo unit in that price range, that would be my (albeit, blind) recommendation. Best of luck!

-Daniel
post #660 of 24297
Quote:
Originally Posted by preproman View Post

 

 

Might have to go after the Conductor.  It's a bit more expensive.  I can't think of anything else..  

 

This is a price range of Benchmark DAC2 HGC... If I had 2000USD to spend, i would go for DAC2 and quit head-fi forever ,-)

 

But thank you... I will just continue in my search and hope.

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