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The (new) HD800 Impressions Thread - Page 43

post #631 of 25197
Quote:
Originally Posted by Girls Generation View Post

It's not easy to find a headphone that meets all your needs without it being properly driven. DACs would play a role as well, in curving the sound to his preference, not only FR wise. 

 

That is the truth...  The HD800 and the HE-6 are perfect examples...

post #632 of 25197
Quote:
Originally Posted by preproman View Post

 

That is the truth...  The HD800 and the HE-6 are perfect examples...

 

Not in my experience... After having several amps with different tonality and several flagship headphones in the last two years, I do not share this opinion. People on head-fi seem to heavily exaggerate the impact of amplifier or DAC on sound. The actual differences are very subtle unless you apply some heavy bass/treble EQ filter on your Fiio/Centrance/whatever amp/DAC.

 

I don't want to offense anyone... But I really find absurd that people think any amp or DAC can transform their headphones into something COMPLETELY different. HD800 always sounded like HD800 to me, the same with LCD-2, D7000, Acer IEMs, T50RP, Sony headphones etc. etc.

 

If you don't like a headphone, don't buy with intention to pair it with 3k amplifier in order to "get the sound right". Buy a cheap 5 USD equalizer if you want to change the signature.

 

By the way - I spent about a year reading all this stuff about "HD800 without a proper 2k amplifier and 3k DAC is totally unlistenable, ...", Then, I decided to stop reading and get back to the real world. I bought a pair and realised what the reality is. ,-)


Edited by RustA - 3/7/13 at 11:20am
post #633 of 25197

I don't think anyone was implying they completely change the headphone, but rather have it sound optimal and/or more towards ones preferences. One cannot change presentation, detail, or soundstage depth and width with EQ, but these aspects can be brought forth by good equipment. If not, why don't all Audeze owners use iPhone headphone out and use an EQ app? They can drive the LCDs loud enough. 

 

Further, by "unlistenable" they're probably drawing relative comparisons because their ears were spoiled. 

Quote:
Originally Posted by RustA View Post

 

Not in my experience... After having several amps with different tonality and several flagship headphones in the last two years, I do not share this opinion. People on head-fi seem to heavily exaggerate the impact of amplifier or DAC on sound. The actual differences are very subtle unless you apply some heavy bass/treble EQ filter on your Fiio/Centrance/whatever amp/DAC.

 

I don't want to offense anyone... But I really find absurd that people think any amp or DAC can transform their headphones into something COMPLETELY different. HD800 always sounded like HD800 to me, the same with LCD-2, D7000, Acer IEMs, T50RP, Sony headphones etc. etc.

 

If you don't like a headphone, don't buy with intention to pair it with 3k amplifier in order to "get the sound right". Buy a cheap 5 USD equalizer if you want to change the signature.


Edited by Girls Generation - 3/7/13 at 11:22am
post #634 of 25197
Quote:
Originally Posted by Girls Generation View Post

It's not easy to find a headphone that meets all your needs without it being properly driven. DACs would play a role as well, in curving the sound to his preference, not only FR wise.


The hd800 is by default "without taste" like tap water , and all these quests to bring back some "excitement"  with "properly  driving" source, which in fact just add some colorations / distortions so that it sounds more pleasing. Why not get some headphone that already have some colorations/distortions in the sound, and save money.

Sorry, but I can't help thinking it's a deceiving game.


Edited by extrabigmehdi - 3/7/13 at 11:23am
post #635 of 25197
Quote:
Originally Posted by Girls Generation View Post

I don't think anyone was implying they completely change the headphone, but rather have it sound optimal and/or more towards ones preferences. One cannot change presentation, detail, or soundstage depth and width with EQ, but these aspects can be brought forth by good equipment. If not, why don't all Audeze owners use iPhone headphone out and use an EQ app? They can drive the LCDs loud enough. 

 

I could find tons of posts about how HD800 is unlistenable from laptop's output or cheap amplifiers and how you need to spend at least 2x the cost of the headphone itself to enjoy the listen, that you need a tube amplifier in order to enjoy music and that with modern music, HD800 are totally unlistenabl, that only super high-end DAC can let it shine etc. etc.

 

Then, again, I stopped reading and the reality seem A LITTLE BIT different.

 

I don't know why all the Audeze users don't use iPhones and EQ, maybe because LCD-2 need more current and people read head-fi threads too often to stay realistic? But they certainly don't need a super-expensive amplifiers, no headphone needs it in order to sound great. I would certainly rather use EQ than spend 2x the cost of the headphone itself for an amp in order to get it right. I don't find it very appealing when any generic EQ will help you to achieve better sound adjustment for free.

 

Again, if you don't like a headphone like it is, buy something different or use EQ... Much more time and cost effective.


Edited by RustA - 3/7/13 at 11:29am
post #636 of 25197

Because FR isn't the whole story. 

Quote:
Originally Posted by extrabigmehdi View Post


The hd800 is by default "without taste" like tap water , and all these quests to bring back some "excitement"  with "properly  driving" source, which in fact just add some colorations / distortions so that it sounds more pleasing. Why not get some headphone that already have some colorations/distortions in the sound, and save money.

Sorry, but I can't help thinking it's a deceiving game.

post #637 of 25197

Because FR isn't the whole story. 

Quote:
Originally Posted by RustA View Post

 

I could find tons of posts about how HD800 is unlistenable from laptop's output or cheap amplifiers and how you need to spend at least 2x the cost of the headphone itself to enjoy the listen, that you need a tube amplifier in order to enjoy music and that with modern music, HD800 are totally unlistenabl, that only super high-end DAC can let it shine etc. etc.

 

Then, again, I stopped reading and the reality seem A LITTLE BIT different.

 

I don't know why all the Audeze users don't use iPhones and EQ, maybe because LCD-2 need more current and people read head-fi threads too often to stay realistic? But they certainly don't need a super-expensive amplifiers, no headphone needs it in order to sound great. I would certainly rather use EQ than spend 2x the cost of the headphone itself for an amp in order to get it right. I don't find it very appealing when any generic EQ will help you to achieve better sound adjustment for free.

 

Again, if you don't like a headphone like it is, buy something different or use EQ... Much more time and cost effective.

post #638 of 25197
Quote:
Originally Posted by RustA View Post

 

I could find tons of posts about how HD800 is unlistenable from laptop's output or cheap amplifiers and how you need to spend at least 2x the cost of the headphone itself to enjoy the listen, that you need a tube amplifier in order to enjoy music and that with modern music, HD800 are totally unlistenable etc. etc.

 

Then, again, I stopped reading and the reality seem A LITTLE BIT different.

 

I don't know why all the Audeze users don't use iPhones and EQ, maybe because LCD-2 need more current and people read head-fi threads too often to stay realistic? But they certainly don't need a super-expensive amplifiers, no headphone needs it in order to sound great. I would certainly rather use EQ than spend 2x the cost of the headphone itself for an amp in order to get it right. I don't find it very appealing when any generic EQ will help you to achieve better sound adjustment for free.

Maybe i have golden ears but I don't agree with what you're saying. going from something like a e7/e9 to a bifrost/lyr was a massive upgrade for me. then the jump to gungnir/mjolnir was a whole different world. note that i didnt have a list of all the improvements after the first song. if you're basing your analysis on a couple short term listens with higher end gear, theres a good chance you won't see what it's made of.

post #639 of 25197

RustA doesn't believe amps sound much different, if different at all. What's the use with reason.

post #640 of 25197
Quote:
Originally Posted by Girls Generation View Post

Because FR isn't the whole story. 

 

So tell me the whole story with amplifiers and DACs... There are several great cheap amplifiers with enough current and enough voltage to deliver all the power needed. What else are you searching sound-wise? High-end amplifiers and DACs do maybe offer higher level of detail with lower jitter but tell me why I cannot enjoy my HD800 to the full extend with O2 which is supposed to have a horrible synergy with HD800?

post #641 of 25197
Quote:
Originally Posted by paradoxper View Post

RustA doesn't believe amps sound much different, if different at all. What's the use with reason.

 

I believe that they sound different... But I don't believe it is worth to mitigate "faults" of any headphone buying super expensive amplifiers. I don't see a reason why.

post #642 of 25197
Quote:
Originally Posted by RustA View Post

 

Not in my experience... After having several amps with different tonality and several flagship headphones in the last two years, I do not share this opinion. People on head-fi seem to heavily exaggerate the impact of amplifier or DAC on sound. The actual differences are very subtle unless you apply some heavy bass/treble EQ filter on your Fiio/Centrance/whatever amp/DAC.

 

I don't want to offense anyone... But I really find absurd that people think any amp or DAC can transform their headphones into something COMPLETELY different. HD800 always sounded like HD800 to me, the same with LCD-2, D7000, Acer IEMs, T50RP, Sony headphones etc. etc.

 

I stand behind my experience as I specifically stated two headphones.  (HE-6 and the HD800)  Does your experience include these two headphones?  

 

I in no way said anything about easy to drive headphones as you stated with the D7000 LCD-2 IEms and T50RP.  

 

There is no exaggeration coming from here if that's what your implying.  Go ahead an hook your HE-6s up to your Fiio.  Then hook them up to a high quality speaker amp.  The proof is in the pudding.

 

Nobody said anything about being "COMPLETELY" different but you.  I have not seen that statement anywhere.  Please show me if I missed it.  

 

Besides I thought is was understood anyway that all differences are subtle and not night and day.  You seem to want to make it out to be that way.  But that was never said anywhere.  Again, if I missed it please show me.

post #643 of 25197

Idea for mid-price HD800 chain: used WA-6SE fed by a JKenny JK32 DAC.  Great combination... In that scenario the phones are the most expensive but the other components are still top notch...

post #644 of 25197
Keep in mind the 'dramatic' differences you speak of, aren't necessarily in regards to obvious measureable differences in gear, but rather relate to the user's subjective sonic satisfaction. It only takes that last 5-10% to raise the bar enough to take listening pleasure up to nirvana, subtle measurements be damned. You can't put a number on that. The devil really is in the details, in the subtlety of music that simply isn't found in lesser gear a lot of times. On a related not, I FREQUENTLY find that gear changes are found more easily on the downgrade-not the upgrade. It just takes longer to grasp these subtleties, but A/B with lesser equipment makes it obvious.

Quick analogy: first time I went from upconverted dvds to bluray discs. At first I could barely see any improvements, but then I got accustomed to the higher resolution and going back to dvd now is an absolute joke. There just simply is no comparison-it was the downgrade if you will, that showed me the light. If that makes sense...

-Daniel
post #645 of 25197
Quote:
Originally Posted by preproman View Post

 

I stand behind my experience as I specifically stated two headphones.  (HE-6 and the HD800)  Does your experience include these two headphones?  

 

I in no way said anything about easy to drive headphones as you stated with the D7000 LCD-2 IEms and T50RP.  

 

There is no exaggeration coming from here if that's what your implying.  Go ahead an hook your HE-6s up to your Fiio.  Then hook them up to a high quality speaker amp.  The proof is in the pudding.

 

Nobody said anything about being "COMPLETELY" different but you.  I have not seen that statement anywhere.  Please show me if I missed it.  

 

Besides I thought is was understood anyway that all differences are subtle and not night and day.  You seem to want to make it out to be that way.  But that was never said anywhere.  Again, if I missed it please show me.

 

I hooked my HD800 to my laptop's output and still I am enjoying them... I don't see a reason why I cannot. It's a worse sound but it's still the same headphone and it does not sound horrible.


I just dislike this "properly driven" statement because too many people connects it with money here (and don't try to tell me you didn't notice this before, it's far too frequent here)... And it's especially associated with HD800 and HE-6. I haven't heard HE-6 but with HD800, I don't see anything difficult in driving them to sound great. They have high sensitivity and quite acceptable power demands. They don't even need much current.

 

I just don¨t think that any amplifier or DAC can solve problems that you have with a pair of headphones. As you said, the differences are subtle and if you only consider your headphone to lack something very subtle to be perfect, it's most probably not an issue at all. And if it is, why to spend money on something uncertain if you can exactly address your issue and fix it with an equalizer or crossfeed (etc.)?

 

But, sorry for derailing the thread... I just wanted to point out that I strongly disagree with a statement that HD800 is difficult to drive properly or that it cannot sound great with the majority of amplifiers or DACs. It's still a pair of headphones, nothing more. And it will always sound like HD800 whatever amp or DAC you use them with.

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