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The (new) HD800 Impressions Thread - Page 21

post #301 of 12072


 he only downside I have at the moment is that sibilance can be an issue on recordings that I know are prone to it,  

 

 

 

 

 

Glad you enjoying the hd800. They have been my reference headphones and they are special indeed. The copper cable upgrade is well worth the money for them and I am still very impressed by the headphone. it is ruthlessly revealing an  if the recording is poor it is unforgiving but in the end it the best headphone I own out distancing everything else I have tried and its a special headphone.  Its a nice addition and for most genre there is no better all rounder. 


Edited by Frank I - 2/26/13 at 4:19am
post #302 of 12072

Well, finally, I don't find the hd800 too bright.

I was trying first to tame the treble by large amount 6db, then 3 db , then only 1.5 db,

but it was just too much, often making the sound less interesting.

 

So here is (hopefully) my last eq , I  tame by less than 0.8 db:

 

 

0.8 db  might seem an insignificant amount, but I  just find the treble is a bit more forward than remaining frequency range,

which I  find this a bit distracting, while listening especially to ambient stuff.

post #303 of 12072

Agree.. I must say that the bass is very very clean.. happy toe-tapping very_evil_smiley.gif

post #304 of 12072
Quote:
Originally Posted by extrabigmehdi View Post

So here is (hopefully) my last eq , I  tame by less than 0.8 db:

 

 

0.8 db  might seem an insignificant amount, but I  just find the treble is a bit more forward than remaining frequency range,

which I  find this a bit distracting, while listening especially to ambient stuff.

 

Try to reel that in to just the treble shelf area around 6-8KHz and something closer to -3dB.

post #305 of 12072
Quote:
Originally Posted by Solude View Post

 

Try to reel that in to just the treble shelf area around 6-8KHz and something closer to -3dB.

Well, that's how I  hear it : a slight treble emphasis , but wide in bandwidth.

I've already tried what you've suggesting, being inspired by the changes in frequency response you get from annax mod, but it doesn't always sound better to me (although not bad).

 

Anyways, I wanted to "fix  the imaging",  somehow it was as if the sound came in front of my head , and I prefer that it comes a bit from the back.

post #306 of 12072
Quote:
Originally Posted by preproman View Post

 

 

 

I'm assuming your using the Master 6?  If this is the case being as both the Master 6 and the HD800 are very revealing - if the sibilance is in the recording the amp and headphones are doing their job.  Both will give you whats on the recording.  Maybe try using a pure copper cable.

 

Thanks Frank I & preproman, yes I am using my Master-6. The issue with the sibilance is as already stated only on disks that are known for it so it's an unfortunate side effect of extreme resolution not a fault as such with the H800's however it is slightly worse on the HD800's than the T1's or HE6's and,  much more obvious than with the LCD2.2's but no surprise there!

 

As regards the cable upgrade, generally I love silver cables. As I do not find the HD800's bass light or overly bright and my Toxic Silver Poison, soon to be upgraded to Silver Widow, works superbly with my HE6's which are also recommended to be used with copper cables, I would prefer a silver cable. I don't believe good quality silver cables are inherently bright. Toxic cables SPC cables are supposed to sound brighter than their pure silver cables.

However I am certainly not ruling out a high quality copper cable.

Any cable upgrade would be to use my amp through its balanced output and for general SQ improvements as I don't require specific SQ fix's.

post #307 of 12072
Quote:
Originally Posted by extrabigmehdi View Post

From what I've understood , the hd800 are not very used by "audio engineers", and it's not just a matter of cost.

The hd600/hd650 are more popular for music production, although they tend to to be forgiving on flaws.

I remind someone using the hd600 to remove noise hiss, and then after using speakers, realizing that the noise was still there. My srh940 does the opposite, it makes noise related flaws more obvious .

 

A the tombraiderforums, there's a "remastered" version of the tomb raider soundtrack, and I  know the hd800 was used to do the remastering .

 

EDIT: "professionals" discussing what could be the best headphone (for monitoring/mixing/mastering/producing electronic music)

 

http://www.kvraudio.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=242636&postdays=0&postorder=asc&highlight=hd800&start=0

 

I guess I could find similar thread at gearslutz. I know steve hoffman like the hd600.

I think that's largely due to the stigma surrounding headphones for audio production. I originally got into headphones through that 'world' before I joined head-fi, and there is a lot of negativity surrounding headphones for anything other than tracking or mix 'checking'; Just look at one of the first answers from that kvr thread: "Headphones should never be used for mixing, and for that reason i think you really shouldn't go overboard with the most expensive set of cans on the market. I have both a HD650 for reference and a HD25 for tracking, and i wouldn't go any further than that. " (with regards to the HD800).

I mean, it makes sense in the way that a perfectly treated room with good quality speakers will beat out headphones because of the ability to change your listening spot, get less ear fatigue, have better depth, etc. But a quality set of headphones will still usually be a better bet than less-than-ideal loudspeaker monitoring conditions. Unfortunately, the conventional wisdom about never mixing on headphones from the days before these high quality ~$1000 flagships existed, is still very much around, making most audio people very hesitant to even try, much less spend that kind of money on, a top-tier set of headphones for audio work.


The newer generation of hobbyist audio producers is gradually changing the tide though, since not only do most lack the luxury of being able to set up a 'proper' studio, but they also probably listen to most of their music through headphones (like most younger people), making them quite familiar with the 'headphone sound' and thus more comfortable/open-minded about experimenting with headphones for audio tasks. Just look at LFF; that guy supposedly masters with his Paradox phones professionally (something that's probably even more frowned upon than simply mixing on headphones). The pro audio world is pretty conservative, and seems to move a lot slower than the consumer audio world, so I'd like to think we're still just in a transition period with regards to headphones.


Edited by oblique63 - 2/26/13 at 1:38pm
post #308 of 12072
Quote:
Originally Posted by oblique63 View Post

 the conventional wisdom about never mixing on headphones from the days before these high quality ~$1000 flagships existed

I  don't think it's a problem of sound quality, and that a 1000$ flagship is required to get the best results.

With speakers, each ears can hear both speakers , which I guess is more natural. Also with speakers the perception of sound vary a bit  while you move your head.

With headphone , there a complete separation between left and right, and sound doesn't vary when you move your head.

 

I've seen people at kvr, interested to mix with headphones , but using a crossfeed vst like tb isone.

I personally never liked much crossfeed.

Also I've seen some people complaining that headphone "beautify" things, and that with headphone it almost always sound good, and hence it's unreliable for mixing.

post #309 of 12072
Quote:
Originally Posted by extrabigmehdi View Post

I've seen people at kvr, interested to mix with headphones , but using a crossfeed vst like tb isone.
I personally never liked much crossfeed.
Also I've seen some people complaining that headphone "beautify" things, and that with headphone it almost always sound good, and hence it's unreliable for mixing.
They would need tb isone and vst if they don't have HD800s on. Nothing else recreates a proper soundstage like them. I guess K1000 does a good job of it too, but they are far more compromised in other areas. Enough so that they are not useful for professional audio work.
post #310 of 12072
Quote:
Originally Posted by Maxvla View Post


They would need tb isone and vst if they don't have HD800s on. Nothing else recreates a proper soundstage like them. I guess K1000 does a good job of it too, but they are far more compromised in other areas. Enough so that they are not useful for professional audio work.

Each time I listen to the HD800 I feel the the soundstage is artificial. What are your thoughts about this?

post #311 of 12072
Your ears are artificial? tongue.gif

Sorry. Don't know what to tell you. It will be tough to beat the HD800 when it comes to a live sounding stage. I actually prefer it to most speaker setups, too. When I listen to HD800s I always find some sound that comes from a direction I'm not expecting from headphones, then I realize that it is where it really should be. This in combination with other similarly surprising accuracies make the HD800 soundstage more interesting, engaging, and immersive for me.
post #312 of 12072

Hmm sometimes it seems like the HD800 is creating soundstage that wasn't meant to be. Sometimes. 

post #313 of 12072
Quote:
Originally Posted by extrabigmehdi View Post

I  don't think it's a problem of sound quality, and that a 1000$ flagship is required to get the best results.

Well, when you're competing against speakers, the HD800 and SR-009 are probably the closest, but yeah they're not necessary. It's more that they make it easier. Anybody can learn to mix properly in headphones if they put the effort into it, but it is certainly much more challenging and frustrating that using speakers (I learned this the hard way). So a lot can still be accomplished with just some HD600's; but to fully replace speakers (even just in a hobbyist setup) and not give yourself a headache along the way, that might require some cans that are at least as detailed as the current lineup of flagships. Using headphones in conjunction with loudspeakers will usually yield the best results, and for that, yeah, you don't need anything too fancy; but if your limitations don't let you have a speaker setup for whatever reason, then using 'lesser' headphones might just make things a bit more complicated than they need to be once you're trying to squeeze that last 10% to make your mix sound 'pro'. Now, I don't think it should be the case that the only cans capable of competing with speakers here should be the +$1000 ones, and that's why I ordered myself a set of Paradox phones last week, but I do think it's still too early to tell how producing on cans will work out. So far, the 'EDM' community seems to be the most widely progressive in this regard.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by extrabigmehdi View Post

I've seen people at kvr, interested to mix with headphones , but using a crossfeed vst like tb isone.

Yep, there's lots of good crossfeeds out there, software and hardware, not to mention crazier stuff like the Realizer. But I think most of that is seen as necessary largely because audio engineers simply tend to be used to loudspeakers more than headphones. I don't think we've quite reached the point in time yet where all the kids that grew up with ipods+earbuds are making too many commercial records, cause I'd wager they would be more likely to be accustomed to headphones more than any other medium of listening to music, thus eventually choosing cans as their primary weapon. Cross-checking with loudspeakers is always going to be important though, and I believe that's what all those crossfeed/virtual-room-DSP's are gonna be used for in the future for people that use their headphones 'plain' for mixing. I'm just speculating out of my ass at this point though. tongue.gif

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by extrabigmehdi View Post

Also I've seen some people complaining that headphone "beautify" things, and that with headphone it almost always sound good, and hence it's unreliable for mixing.

Given that we're in an HD800 thread, that's almost hilarious to think about, considering the oodles of people that hate this phone due to it being too 'cold'/'clinical'/'unforgiving'. While I personally wouldn't use those words to describe them, I do think headphones tend to be more revealing than similarly priced loudspeaker counterparts on average, if for no other reason than the obvious fact that they're right up against the side of your head so you can hear things better.rolleyes.gif  Now, I'm not aware of any headphone equivalents to the NS10's or auratones, but those are a whole other story anyway... I think bass and depth are probably the toughest things to get right with headphones, but other than that, they're really not too far behind, imo.


Edited by oblique63 - 2/26/13 at 4:51pm
post #314 of 12072
EDM is different though because virtually everything isn't real. There is no reference so they can do whatever they want.
post #315 of 12072
Quote:
Originally Posted by Maxvla View Post

EDM is different though because virtually everything isn't real. There is no reference so they can do whatever they want.

tongue.gif

Yeah, in terms of getting timbre 'right', that's pretty much true. I think the merits there are more about getting ambiance and special positioning right though, not to mention the deep, controlled (yet, admittedly artificial) bass. It's not easy getting those lower frequencies right without a decent subwoofer setup, so any headphone-produced EDM with good, clean thumpin' [virtual] bass still probably deserves a bit of kudos I think. Then again, I'm really not that much into the EDM scene, so a lot of that could be pre-made samples for all I know, but I prefer to be optimistic about it. 
smile.gif  Either way, I'm sure headphone-production will spread to other -- less 'artificial'(?) -- genres in time; we gotta crawl before we can walk after all...


Edited by oblique63 - 2/26/13 at 5:42pm
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