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The (new) HD800 Impressions Thread - Page 181

post #2701 of 19162
Quote:
Originally Posted by paradoxper View Post

Funny because you have soo many people who claim toslink is completely flawed or that USB isn't good enough without a converter.

 

Personally, I've heard optical and USB sound no different. That's from a Bifrost, Gungnir, M51 and PWD MKII.

 

I agree with this, sound wise I hear no different. The only thing I notice is with USB you can hear computer noise at very high volumes. (from hard drives, graphics cards and other USB devices.)

post #2702 of 19162

There is some truth to that.  Toslink at 24/96 is approaching failure.  In fact I have some 'prosumer' cards that the PWD2 can't lock on to at 24/96.  Others are fine.  USB is an implementation thing.  Many manufacturers, PWD2 included, use great chips, great clocks, solid drivers... and then go full retard and forget to isolate it or cut the power feed entirely.  Which inserts among other things... ground loops.  You'd be really hard pressed to hear them on full sized headphones or low gain but plug in an IEM, crank it up and yep... background hum.  You go toslink and poof dead silence.  I think that's where the love for external boxes comes from.  They tend, note tend, to be more well thought out and not just a throw in.  Now the good news for me is the PWD2 literally throws out the incoming signal timing and reclocks it so the higher jitter on the toslink doesn't really matter.  Certainly not enough to go back to the USB that I know has a background ground loop hum ;)

post #2703 of 19162
Quote:
Originally Posted by Solude View Post

There is some truth to that.  Toslink at 24/96 is approaching failure.  In fact I have some 'prosumer' cards that the PWD2 can't lock on to at 24/96.  Others are fine.  USB is an implementation thing.  Many manufacturers, PWD2 included, use great chips, great clocks, solid drivers... and then go full retard and forget to isolate it or cut the power feed entirely.  Which inserts among other things... ground loops.  You'd be really hard pressed to hear them on full sized headphones or low gain but plug in an IEM, crank it up and yep... background hum.  You go toslink and poof dead silence.  I think that's where the love for external boxes comes from.  They tend, note tend, to be more well thought out and not just a throw in.  Now the good news for me is the PWD2 literally throws out the incoming signal timing and reclocks it so the higher jitter on the toslink doesn't really matter.  Certainly not enough to go back to the USB that I know has a background ground loop hum ;)

 

Ditto. Supposedly the Burson Conductor has the USB power cut-off and still gets obliterated by a good interface. Heck even some peanuts cheap stuff like IFI IUSB made a difference... More companies should figure out by now that if they can't get it right, maybe they should just license technology from the likes of Audiophilleo, M2Tech etc... Some like Naim and some others have already done just that. Pity the rest of their product still has some catch-up to do.

post #2704 of 19162
Quote:
Originally Posted by paradoxper View Post

Funny because you have soo many people who claim toslink is completely flawed or that USB isn't good enough without a converter.

 

Personally, I've heard optical and USB sound no different. That's from a Bifrost, Gungnir, M51 and PWD MKII.

I've also had people who tell me optical is the best :P I think before when usb was still a new thing for audio there was some superiority but now if done correctly it can be hard if not impossible to tell the difference.

post #2705 of 19162
Have a hard time believing Solude about locking on optical at 24/96. My Bifrost and Gungnir never had a problem even with my onboard spdif.
post #2706 of 19162
More impressions of the bifrost uber with the HD800 would be nice. I won't bite until I know it won't be brighter.
post #2707 of 19162
Quote:
Originally Posted by paradoxper View Post

Funny because you have soo many people who claim toslink is completely flawed or that USB isn't good enough without a converter.

 

Personally, I've heard optical and USB sound no different. That's from a Bifrost, Gungnir, M51 and PWD MKII.

+1...I am confused by the impressions finding these big differences.

post #2708 of 19162
A bit off topic but I just read and old post on the LCD3 thread from our good poster Solude: "Conversely there isn't an amp on the planet that would make me an HD800 fan wink.gif"

Boy can oneself trick their own mind sometimes! I remember when I got my LCD3, I was stunned that it underwhelmed me vs my HE6 and HD800.

It's safe to say that once your system is configured, the HD800's are the non-Stax headphone to beat
post #2709 of 19162
Quote:
Originally Posted by dleblanc343 View Post

A bit off topic but I just read and old post on the LCD3 thread from our good poster Solude: "Conversely there isn't an amp on the planet that would make me an HD800 fan wink.gif"

Boy can oneself trick their own mind sometimes! I remember when I got my LCD3, I was stunned that it underwhelmed me vs my HE6 and HD800.

It's safe to say that once your system is configured, the HD800's are the non-Stax headphone to beat

+1 to that!

post #2710 of 19162
Hypothetically speaking, do you think it's realistic that Sennheiser will release the hd800 successor within the next 2-3 years or would it be longer?
Edited by gords - 5/15/13 at 9:28pm
post #2711 of 19162
Quote:
Originally Posted by longbowbbs View Post

+1...I am confused by the impressions finding these big differences.

 

Aren't you a head-fi savant? Isn't it normal to notice immediate differences even days or weeks later without A/B? We are special people. biggrin.gif

post #2712 of 19162

***** Separate Linear Power Supplies*****

 

Call me crazy but - I try to put one on everything.  I have two on my PC.  One for the PC and one for the SOtM USB card (This card gets no power from the mobo).  I have one on my USB converter.  I also like separate PSUs for my amps.  Hell, I would like it if DACs offer that as well.  You can add one to that ExaSound E20 if you want.  


Edited by preproman - 5/16/13 at 3:35am
post #2713 of 19162

Regarding the usb/optical or spdif converter business. If you have optical output on your computer then happy days. But it also depends how powerful your computer is as to how it copes with delivering the data. And there may well be no discernible differences at all using these two methods. As far as USB or using an spdif converter goes, I hear a big (as far as audiophile terms go) difference. But not in a change of the frequencies. By that I mean you aren't going to get deeper bass or brighter treble, because if its not there in the first place... What I do notice, is no jitter. This can sound as big as clicks, pops when the computer is doing lots of tasks. Or as little as congestion in complex passages. If all of the re-clocking is done outside of the computer then there is no fear of it being disrupted by Internet etc. Also, adding another component into the chain for this purpose is fine because data hasn't reached the dac yet. Adding components after the dac is where the sound will begin to degrade. 

 

 

Yes. I'm an expert at sounding like I'm an expert tongue.gif

 

 

Oh, and none of the above will matter if you aren't using a headphone as good as the HD800's :D 

post #2714 of 19162
Originally Posted by MickeyVee View Post

Here's the thread on the Uber Upgrade. I did the upgrade last night and the difference was immediately noticeable.

http://www.head-fi.org/t/661444/schiit-bifrost-uber-analog-upgrade

I cant specifically talk to the HD800... yet... but with the HE-500 the bass tightened up, better extension across the spectrum and smoother mids and highs with less grain. I'm suspecting that I'm getting more detail also but it's hard to tell. It seems a little brighter but that may be due to the upper end extension/detail. Need to spend some more time with it.

I didn't do the Gen2 USB upgrade. I do have both USB and optical hooked up with my MacMini but it's really hard to tell the difference. Maybe when I get the HD800...

Hope this helps, M

 

Thank you.. glad to see the uber upgrade made a distinguishable difference for you.  Looking forward to seeing how you like it when the HD800 arrives.  If you've had some experience with other DACs, some general performance comparisons of them vs the Bifrost-Uber would be appreciated, too.


Originally Posted by palmfish View Post

I think a well designed input, whether USB, Coax, or Optical will sound equally good. I personally would rather use the input I have rather than use a converter in the chain.

 

Agreed.  I'd rather just go with USB for the sake of simplicity (and lack of clutter).. if the implementation was solid.


Originally Posted by paradoxper View Post

Funny because you have soo many people who claim toslink is completely flawed or that USB isn't good enough without a converter.

 

Personally, I've heard optical and USB sound no different. That's from a Bifrost, Gungnir, M51 and PWD MKII.

 

Personally, I've never had a problem with toslink or coax (as far as finding one 'flawed' vs the other).  Most of the USB implementations I've heard (admittedly, in "mid-fi" territory) have been good as far as reliability, but in a few cases, I've found coax/optical to sound noticeably better (the Leckerton UHA-6S MKII being one of the best examples).  The TubeDAC-11 is antoehr that seems to have a marginally better coax/optical input vs the USB.  I never found the USB inputs on these devices to be substandard or performing poorly, just that the coax/optical inputs yielded slightly better sound.  I'm using the Izmo M1 as a DDC (project86 reviewed it for IF and said it compared quite favorably to the Stello U3) with the V800.  The V800's usb input is great.. but it's optical sounds a bit more spacious and clear.


Edited by FlySweep - 5/16/13 at 1:12am
post #2715 of 19162

I never heard the V800s USB.  However, I think it's adaptive oppose to asynchronous.  Not saying it's not good.  Just saying it's a little older technology.  

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