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The (new) HD800 Impressions Thread - Page 159

post #2371 of 13346
Quote:
Originally Posted by longbowbbs View Post

OK, time for a mini-review on Denon receiver HP capabilities.

I fired up the Denon AVR-4311CI with the HD800's. I used my Denon DVD-5900 DVD/SACD as source via the Denon Link digital connection. Test disc's were the DTS version of Alan Parsons "On Air", The SACD of Nick Drake's "A Treasury" and a regular Redbook CD of the Eagles "Their Greatest Hits".









The Denon receiver uses 2 AKM 4358 DAC's to cover it's 11.2 processing:

* The Denon AVR-4311CI receiver uses TWO AKM DACs, the exact same DAC as in the 3311 receiver.


Because the AVR-4311 receiver is an 11.2-channel receiver, it has 13 preouts for 13 channels. So it needs 13 DACs. And TWO AK4358 DACs equals 16 DACs all together; the three extra DACs are NOT used. 


The Denon DVD-5900 uses a pair of Burr-Brown 24 bit/192 PCM/DSD 1790 Audio DAC's

A review of the DVD-5900 by Kris Deering can be found here:

http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/volume_11_1/denon-dvd-5900-dvd-player-2-2004.html

After a couple of hours A/B'ing between the Denon AVR-4311CI and my Decware CSP2+/Taboo MK III using the same DVD-5900 source it was no contest between them. The Decware was easily superior to the Denon for HP use.

The Denon is clean, but sterile in its presentation. Even with the vaunted HD800 it felt flat and much less dimensionality. You hear everything, but it is artificial in its presentation.

Switching to the Decware things really open up. Alan Parson "On Air" casts a wide soundstage and the Decware revealed it fully. Suddenly you had depth alongside height and width

That wasnt a comparison between the Denon and Decware. It was a comparison between solid state and tubes.
post #2372 of 13346
Quote:
Originally Posted by BournePerfect View Post

It's tragic when you've heard them on a better rig imo. It's always the downgrade that is more noticeable imo than the upgrade. That's why the E9 = ZDSE crowd always cracks me up. Live with both systems, get accustomed to the  differences, and the downgrade will almost always be night/day.

 

-Daniel

True enough...I do not have to compromise here...biggrin.gif

post #2373 of 13346
Quote:
Originally Posted by palmfish View Post

That wasnt a comparison between the Denon and Decware. It was a comparison between solid state and tubes.

 

That is certainly a relavant point.  However, I would want to use something like the Headamp GS-X mk2 vs the Decware to get a nice SS vs Tubes comparison. That way you are comparing items built for the same specific task.

post #2374 of 13346
Quote:
Originally Posted by longbowbbs View Post

That is certainly a relavant point.  However, I would want to use something like the Headamp GS-X mk2 vs the Decware to get a nice SS vs Tubes comparison. That way you are comparing items built for the same specific task.

Agreed, that would be a more appropriate comparison. I think if you compared the Denon vs. a V200 you might be surprised though.

Although again, the Denon with its high output impedance does tend to muddy up the 800s mid-bass a bit.
post #2375 of 13346
Quote:
Originally Posted by 3ternalDr4gon View Post

Someone said that the AD900X's have 85% of the sound quality that the HD800's have. Does anyone agree to this? Because if it's true, I think I might get the AD900X's instead of the HD650's when I upgrade to open cans

Blasphemy to the HD800's. Not even remotely close in sound. The only mid level headphone that resembles closely to the HD800 sound is the SA5k or SA3k with 5k pads (same drivers, different housing and different pads). 

post #2376 of 13346
Quote:
Originally Posted by palmfish View Post

It was a comparison between solid state and tubes.

 

Great solid state has all the attributes of great tubes.  My Soloist and GS-X mk2 just stomped my tubes amps everywhere while the tubes stomped other solid state I've had.

post #2377 of 13346
Quote:
Originally Posted by DefQon View Post

Blasphemy to the HD800's. Not even remotely close in sound. The only mid level headphone that resembles closely to the HD800 sound is the SA5k or SA3k with 5k pads (same drivers, different housing and different pads). 


+1. It's scary how much detail the Sony SAx000 can bring up when compared to the HD800.

post #2378 of 13346
Quote:
Originally Posted by dukeskd View Post


+1. It's scary how much detail the Sony SAx000 can bring up when compared to the HD800.

Yeah they a pita to get the right amplification though, it either sounds crap or really good. But they sound best out of solid states with bass boost on.

post #2379 of 13346

Thanks for that reply man. About exactly what I expected. That MKIII amp is a lot of money and I have the same DACs in my Denon 2112ci as the high-range Denon. Mine costed 388 so I think of it as a very budget-oriented amp. I have 700GB of FLAC music and the Denon helps with the whole painless, digital networking idea. You also gave me a good recommendation for an amp if I so choose to go that extra step. Thanks. Any more recommendations in the 1500 range for amps? Any solid state designs for recommendations?

 

Again, I am not about to start a solid vs tube war. I know the differences to a point and some people will swear by tubes as above and others will swear by solid state. Not really a problem for me as I can have both. The Denon should have zero problems with these in the mid-high-range audio level. It's exactly what I wanted to know. The fact you can get some of the circuitry in the high-level Denons at a very reduced price all the way to the 1712ci makes it a great value for those that want value in lower dollars. Note: It must be said you shouldn't go below the 2112ci for video with the Denon range as there was a huge issue with this line not passing a full range video signal that was fixed through firmware update. Also, does anyone actually know the output impedance of the Denons?
 


Edited by OrbitingCow - 5/2/13 at 4:45pm
post #2380 of 13346
Quote:
Originally Posted by 3ternalDr4gon View Post

Someone said that the AD900X's have 85% of the sound quality that the HD800's have. Does anyone agree to this? Because if it's true, I think I might get the AD900X's instead of the HD650's when I upgrade to open cans

 

They may very well be 85% of the sound quality of the HD800, but what headphone represents 50%?  25%?  0%?  Without knowing another point of reference, they're useless.  If the HD650 were to represent 50% of the sound quality, then I'd say that's an enormous compliment (and absolutely wrong).  If 0% represents a busted bullhorn, then that's a huge slap in the face to the AD900X.  

 

TL;DR summary - As a rule, assume all percentage difference opinions are completely arbitrary/useless.

post #2381 of 13346
Quote:
Originally Posted by DefQon View Post

Yeah they a pita to get the right amplification though, it either sounds crap or really good. But they sound best out of solid states with bass boost on.


I agree. The bass is severely lacking on the Sony's. But at 1/4 and less than the HD800, they are a total bargain.

post #2382 of 13346
Quote:
Originally Posted by Solude View Post

 

Great solid state has all the attributes of great tubes.  My Soloist and GS-X mk2 just stomped my tubes amps everywhere while the tubes stomped other solid state I've had.

Is ist about the time you are ready to sell the GSX? This may be the longest time you have had an amp. biggrin.gif

post #2383 of 13346
Quote:
Originally Posted by preproman View Post

 

Can't speak on the V200.  However, the GS-X mkII would be my pick over the BHA-1.  I use to own it and with the HD800 the GS-X mkII is a win win.  

 

All depending on your buget as well.

 

For the $1k price range, I'd go Soloist or V200. If you can open your budget, then the GS-X is a fantastic option!

post #2384 of 13346
Quote:
Originally Posted by Frank I View Post

Is ist about the time you are ready to sell the GSX? This may be the longest time you have had an amp. biggrin.gif

 

Too true :P  To be fair there have been some amps that last a while in house... HeadAmp Reference, HeadAmp KGSS, Apex Peak and now the HeadAmp GS-X mk2 which is kind of a return to the original king.  So err umm the king is dead, long live the king =)

post #2385 of 13346

I'd still like to hear a DHT amp some day but no luck finding that ditch filled with $1000s yet ;)

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