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The (new) HD800 Impressions Thread - Page 135

post #2011 of 15307
Quote:
Originally Posted by xphynance View Post

 

why it is the weakest element of the audio chain?

It's science, the "objectivist" from hydrogenaudio would be able to tell it more about it, and better than me.

Otherwise measurements for headphone, are far from "perfect" (including any top of the line headphone) , while some source are just considered "objectively" transparent (i.e their limits are lower than what the human ear can perceive).

post #2012 of 15307

i see, then, I may go with cans first. I was originally thinking of getting a decent amp first to scale up my hd650, then I realized a good dac is also important, then I want to save longer to get them both at a time, then I realized my hd650 may not reveal 100% of the improvement in the source, then I want to save even longer, then I feel frustrated I may not have any new gear in the near future...

what a mess...   then I read this thread...

 

thank you all!


Edited by xphynance - 4/19/13 at 2:35pm
post #2013 of 15307
Quote:
Originally Posted by negura View Post

 

This, however knowing you may not be enjoying your HD800 at its optimal level for a while. I don't know how your downstream fits the HD800, but maybe someone else has tried that combination before.

 

you mean the hd800 may not sound as good as hd650 on the HDP?

post #2014 of 15307

I would say if you really like the 650's then stick with them as they scale very well. Or, If you like them but are always wanting a bit more... Then go all-out on the HD800's. I very much doubt you will regret it. They are like are a much bigger sounding 650 with better extention at both ends and better resolution. The treble really isn't an issue with me and the amps that I've tried. Grado's and Beyers are too bright for my liking. 

 

As has been said many times, the HD800's will only sound as good as what they are plugged into and what source you are using. But my limited experience with them is this; They sound great anyway! Much more amp friendly than I have been lead to believe. Plug them into a toaster and I'm sure you won't feel like your missing anything.. Plug them into your girlfriend! Have a listen..? I'm sure she'll agree that that's   a great bottom end.. and what with those two healthy sized peaks and smooth silky finish... k I'll stop now. :D

post #2015 of 15307
Quote:
Originally Posted by LugBug1 View Post

I would say if you really like the 650's then stick with them as they scale very well. Or, If you like them but are always wanting a bit more... Then go all-out on the HD800's. I very much doubt you will regret it. They are like are a much bigger sounding 650 with better extention at both ends and better resolution. The treble really isn't an issue with me and the amps that I've tried. Grado's and Beyers are too bright for my liking. 

 

As has been said many times, the HD800's will only sound as good as what they are plugged into and what source you are using. But my limited experience with them is this; They sound great anyway! Much more amp friendly than I have been lead to believe. Plug them into a toaster and I'm sure you won't feel like your missing anything.. Plug them into your girlfriend! Have a listen..? I'm sure she'll agree that that's   a great bottom end.. and what with those two healthy sized peaks and smooth silky finish... k I'll stop now. :D

 

"tube amp"  redface.gif

post #2016 of 15307
Boneaphone alert!
post #2017 of 15307
Quote:
Originally Posted by LugBug1 View Post
Plug them into your girlfriend! Have a listen..? I'm sure she'll agree that that's   a great bottom end.. and what with those two healthy sized peaks and smooth silky finish... k I'll stop now. :D

 

Haha! That made me laugh really :D

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by xphynance View Post

i see, then, I may go with cans first. I was originally thinking of getting a decent amp first to scale up my hd650, then I realized a good dac is also important, then I want to save longer to get them both at a time, then I realized my hd650 may not reveal 100% of the improvement in the source, then I want to save even longer, then I feel frustrated I may not have any new gear in the near future...

what a mess...   then I read this thread...

 

thank you all!

 

Keep in mind that the HD 650 tend to be a bit darker in sound signature as from what I've heard and the HD 800 is somewhat brighter just like the HD 600 - which, in my eyes, is the unofficial successor of it.

 

As been already mentioned, test the headphone yourself first - have a good listen to them in a hifi-store near you (if your lucky to have one around). Kindly ask them if they would lend them to you for a weekend - I was lucky enough and had that chance without paying a deposit.

If you think they are for you, then go ahead!

I would keep the amp you have got now as the HD 800 adapts to its source exceedingly well (more than any other headphones I've heard so far). So you can easily decide if the sound signature delivered from your amp to the headphone is something you enjoy or not. Then you can consider upgrading to another amp.

 

Hope I could help a little :)


Edited by Kenion - 4/19/13 at 6:13pm
post #2018 of 15307
Quote:
Originally Posted by brokenthumb View Post

 

"tube amp"  redface.gif

LMAO 

 

beerchug.gif

post #2019 of 15307
Quote:
Originally Posted by xphynance View Post

why it is the weakest element of the audio chain?

 

It isn't, not by a long shot.  The HD600/650 used to be headphones considered at home in rigs costing upwards of $10000.  The HD800 is better, planars are also better but to think that the HD650 is the weak link in a rig with a $400 combo dac and amp upfront... no, just no.  The HD650 is darker than the HD800 but feels a little brighter than the LCD-2 because it can't reach down as far into the bass.

 

post #2020 of 15307
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cante Ista View Post

obviously it depends on the tube, but stock they are VERY similar on the warmth dimension. NOw I have the older Sonett and mine is SE. Not sure how the new one would compare.

Thanks cante. How about detail level retrieval and slam on Sonett and Phonitor?
post #2021 of 15307
Quote:
Originally Posted by Solude View Post

 

 but to think that the HD650 is the weak link in a rig with a $400 combo dac and amp upfront... no, just no. 

Well, the performances of the headphone are limited by the mechanical , moving parts, how fast the driver is able to react etc...

There's no moving part in an amp/source, just pure circuitry.

I could link to some discussion at hydrogenaudio, telling how much we are technologically advanced, regarding the  components of a source,

and the spending of big buck  for the source, is hardly justified.

Now, I let go the "part of mystery" of why the hd650 would sound much better from more expensive source (I'm  curious, to some extent).

But I noticed few people were disappointed after upgrading their source, they just do not talk much about it.

post #2022 of 15307

Through my years as an audiophile I've gone from $100 sources to $3000 and back again to $1500 range and so forth.  Long story short, cost isn't always an indicator of quality and at the same time giant killers at bargain bin prices are rare.  My last round of sources... W4S DAC-2 was modestly better than the Burson HA-160D, but the Metrum Octave was better than the W4S everywhere and cost less, win, but neither approached the PWD2 in performance and admittedly cost.  But I consider audio gear solid forms of currency and not money spent, so as long as I can swing the buy price, I haven't spent anything.  In case that made no sense... I can sell the PWD2 for what I paid for it so essentially the upgrade is free.

 

The other side of the equation is that if the amp isn't transparent or capable of keeping up with the source, upgrades are hard to hear.  Ie the Burson HA-160D is just passable as an amp so the differences between it's DAC and the W4S took speakers to hear, well feel would be more accurate since the change was in force so bass hit harder.  Something you could feel but not hear.  On better amps the W4S grew it's performance gap to the HA-160D but still wasn't as good as the less expensive Metrum.

post #2023 of 15307
Quote:
Originally Posted by Solude View Post

Through my years as an audiophile I've gone from $100 sources to $3000 and back again to $1500 range and so forth.  Long story short, cost isn't always an indicator of quality and at the same time giant killers at bargain bin prices are rare.  My last round of sources... W4S DAC-2 was modestly better than the Burson HA-160D, but the Metrum Octave was better than the W4S everywhere and cost less, win, but neither approached the PWD2 in performance and admittedly cost.  But I consider audio gear solid forms of currency and not money spent, so as long as I can swing the buy price, I haven't spent anything.  In case that made no sense... I can sell the PWD2 for what I paid for it so essentially the upgrade is free.

 

The other side of the equation is that if the amp isn't transparent or capable of keeping up with the source, upgrades are hard to hear.  Ie the Burson HA-160D is just passable as an amp so the differences between it's DAC and the W4S took speakers to hear, well feel would be more accurate since the change was in force so bass hit harder.  Something you could feel but not hear.  On better amps the W4S grew it's performance gap to the HA-160D but still wasn't as good as the less expensive Metrum.

LoL....and I compared the PWD2 to the W4S DAC-2 and let's just say I have little interest in the PS Audio DAC. Was it nice...sure, but better? Not really. I found that it imparted a bit too much of its character (warmish-sweet) on the sound, while the DAC-2 was a bit "truer" to the source. Even at roughly the same price, I'd still go with the W4S DAC. This is one area that you and I don't hear things the same (thought for the most part we do). Plus, the PWD2 is freakin' HUGE! tongue.gif We really love the GS-X and HD-800s. Could be personal preferences coming into play too. So I guess it really pays to listen first. 

 

Now this one, I'm interested in trying soon:

 

http://www.theabsolutesound.com/articles/bryston-bda-2-digital-to-analog-converter/?utm_campaign=Newsletter&utm_medium=email&utm_source=email-105

 

My buddy and I did a shoot out between his BDA-1 and the DAC-2. Long story short, he know owns the DAC-2. But the biggest difference was with USB inputs and the BDA-1 lacked asyncronous USB...but it appears that this has been rectified on the BDA-2. 


Edited by MacedonianHero - 4/19/13 at 7:32pm
post #2024 of 15307
Quote:
Originally Posted by LugBug1 View Post

Plug them into a toaster and I'm sure you won't feel like your missing anything.. Plug them into your girlfriend! Have a listen..? I'm sure she'll agree that that's   a great bottom end.. and what with those two healthy sized peaks and smooth silky finish... k I'll stop now. :D

 

I like your metaphor evil_smiley.gif

 


Quote:
Originally Posted by Kenion View Post

 

Haha! That made me laugh really :D

 

 

Keep in mind that the HD 650 tend to be a bit darker in sound signature as from what I've heard and the HD 800 is somewhat brighter just like the HD 600 - which, in my eyes, is the unofficial successor of it.

 

As been already mentioned, test the headphone yourself first - have a good listen to them in a hifi-store near you (if your lucky to have one around). Kindly ask them if they would lend them to you for a weekend - I was lucky enough and had that chance without paying a deposit.

If you think they are for you, then go ahead!

I would keep the amp you have got now as the HD 800 adapts to its source exceedingly well (more than any other headphones I've heard so far). So you can easily decide if the sound signature delivered from your amp to the headphone is something you enjoy or not. Then you can consider upgrading to another amp.

 

Hope I could help a little :)

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Solude View Post

Through my years as an audiophile I've gone from $100 sources to $3000 and back again to $1500 range and so forth.  Long story short, cost isn't always an indicator of quality and at the same time giant killers at bargain bin prices are rare.  My last round of sources... W4S DAC-2 was modestly better than the Burson HA-160D, but the Metrum Octave was better than the W4S everywhere and cost less, win, but neither approached the PWD2 in performance and admittedly cost.  But I consider audio gear solid forms of currency and not money spent, so as long as I can swing the buy price, I haven't spent anything.  In case that made no sense... I can sell the PWD2 for what I paid for it so essentially the upgrade is free.

 

The other side of the equation is that if the amp isn't transparent or capable of keeping up with the source, upgrades are hard to hear.  Ie the Burson HA-160D is just passable as an amp so the differences between it's DAC and the W4S took speakers to hear, well feel would be more accurate since the change was in force so bass hit harder.  Something you could feel but not hear.  On better amps the W4S grew it's performance gap to the HA-160D but still wasn't as good as the less expensive Metrum.

 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by MacedonianHero View Post

LoL....and I compared the PWD2 to the W4S DAC-2 and let's just say I have little interest in the PS Audio DAC. Was it nice...sure, but better? Not really. I found that it imparted a bit too much of its character (warmish-sweet) on the sound, while the DAC-2 was a bit "truer" to the source. Even at roughly the same price, I'd still go with the W4S DAC. This is one area that you and I don't hear things the same (thought for the most part we do). Plus, the PWD2 is freakin' HUGE! tongue.gif We really love the GS-X and HD-800s. Could be personal preferences coming into play too. So I guess it really pays to listen first. 

 

Now this one, I'm interested in trying soon:

 

http://www.theabsolutesound.com/articles/bryston-bda-2-digital-to-analog-converter/?utm_campaign=Newsletter&utm_medium=email&utm_source=email-105

 

My buddy and I did a shoot out between his BDA-1 and the DAC-2. Long story short, he know owns the DAC-2. But the biggest difference was with USB inputs and the BDA-1 lacked asyncronous USB...but it appears that this has been rectified on the BDA-2. 

 

 

 

very informative, thank you all for the inputs!

 

It is the "transparent" and "disappearing" effect of a gear that makes me excited most. I do like my hd650, ever since I put it on my head I could not enjoy the music with any IEMs straight plugged into the iphone, just too vague and, seems like there's a wall stands in between.... I am also surprised I had not noticed that for such a long time.

 

I assume hd800 could do much better... Hope some one could let me try their hd800 for a while or allow me to plug my hd650 to their amps tomorrow at the NY meeting.

 

BTW: GS-X 2 is on my wishlist too, need more time to save up for...

post #2025 of 15307
Quote:
Originally Posted by Solude View Post

 On better amps the W4S grew it's performance gap to the HA-160D but still wasn't as good as the less expensive Metrum.

I am interested on Metrum for a long time, partly because of the looks, but I've been hearing bass and hf frequency roll off. What is your impression?
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