Oh and not saying the WA22 is a bad amp or not an upgrade over the other Woo amps just that for the $2400(tubes on this beast aren't cheap) you can do much better, ie poor value. For example the B22 is a direct drop in replacement to the WA22 and you can buy those used for $800. Still wouldn't get that per say for the HD800 just drawing an example.
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The (new) HD800 Impressions Thread - Page 98
Gear mentioned in this thread:
Lots of choices for flavour headphones without going completely off your rocker and getting a high priced Grato err Grado. Beyer 990 or Senn 650 or AT anything are all less expensive, more comfortable and just as flavoured.
I hope you're joking. As long as Grado interests people enough to buy their products, it's great and correct they do make them.
Competitive in terms of what? Remember that this hobby is an extremely subjective business... It's as much subjective as any objectivist here on head-fi is being highly criticised for even trying to be objective. ,-)
So I hope you realise that your view on Grado is nearly 100% subjective and therefore =/= the ultimate truth. My opinion is no less subjective, of course (not a Grado fan).
Edited by RustA - 3/30/13 at 5:51am
My opinion of Grado is objective. They measure like garbage, they aren't well constructed, they aren't comfortable and they cost a lot more than their competitors. Subjectively you may like their flawed response, but objectively they're junk. Their $80 model is ok though.
Off course they "measure like garbage" , but I still imagine people "subjectively" like them.
Anyway the "objective" argument , is only used when you find it's convenient.
Lot of expensive source (amp/dac) suggested on this thread , and no measurements, in the name of the sacro saint subjectivity.
When it's grados, then the objective argument is getting back.
I'm not sure if you are realizing the "double standard" used here to make any judgment.
This... Yes, this is head-fi.
All of my opinions are based on objective data and subjective experience. But yes a lot of people like things that are objectively a poor choice. For example I went back to the LCD-2 after owning the LCD-3 because subjectively it never sounded quite right and objectively it rings quite a bit.
On the HD800 front though objectively I expected to like them... subjectively I really didn't enjoy it the first two times. So subjectively I expected to be disappointed again this time out but now with my current gear they're subjectively awesome.
What drives me nuts is pure objectivists or pure subjectivists. Or worse objectivists who have exceptions making their objectivity more about justifying not spending money more than actual objectivity. The spending multiples of funds on the transducer instead of the amp or source comes to mind. Objectively there is no reason to believe transducers aren't bound by their measurements if you believe electronics or cables are. Just saying ;)
I'm now a proud owner of the HD800 after jumping from Beyer T1.. Really loving the HD800 now.. i find the treble just slightly exaggerated with some songs, but overall its acceptable, much better than the stock T1 (I have felt dampering mods on them). Overall am happy switching to the HD800.. the little improvements in sound is what got me.
Am currently running it with Audio-GD NFB 3.32 and Meier Concerto. What do you guys think of my rig? i'm loving the sound so far :)
But the headphone is the weakest link in the audio chain, it's the biggest bottleneck, that's why it still make sense.
Just like the performance of a pc is hampered by the hard drive, and the purchase of an expensive ssd make sense.
The source is not often a bottleneck, and now if you found source that let you better appreciate "subjectively"
your hd800, I'd be curious about the more technical details/measurements of your source.
The irony, is that it might be precisely because your source measure badly, that you'd appreciate better your hd800.
I agree, If strictly limited to a certain budget, I'd much rather have an HD800 with say, an O2/ODAC than a K701 with $1000 amp/dac combo. Obviously there is a lot of potential to be wrung out of the HD800 but with a lesser headphone, you can only max it out so much. And you can always upgrade your source components down the road.
Performance can be measured objectively, but perception will always be subjective.
On paper my BMW doesn't have as much acceleration, cornering, or braking ability as a Toyota Corrolla, but subjectively it's a lot more fun to drive.
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