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The (new) HD800 Impressions Thread - Page 870

post #13036 of 18783

Hi guys, what do you think about this graph by headroom:

 

They seem to suggest that a balanced HD800 measures quite differently than a standard HD800, especially in the upper treble area. While I do notice an improvement of going balanced, most of the difference I heard are only in regard to seperation, soundstage & imaging and so on. I don't hear any difference in the treble area.

post #13037 of 18783

http://graphs.headphone.com/graphCompare.php?graphType=-1&graphID[]=4061&graphID[]=2321&graphID[]=863&scale=30

 

Has that HD800 balanced measurement been up for a while? Is it the "2013" or an older HD800?

 

http://graphs.headphone.com/graphCompare.php?graphType=-2&graphID[]=4061&graphID[]=2321&graphID[]=863&scale=30

 

Looking at the raw measurements, the balanced looks more controlled as there is less jumping and spikes in the treble. Balanced looks a lot flatter from 2-8KHz which I assume is due to better control?


Edited by namaiki - 8/13/14 at 10:33pm
post #13038 of 18783

It's pointless drawing conclusions without knowing if any of these are the same headphone, measured same day on the same rig in the same position without moving them. Positioning, pad wear etc all make wild variations in the upper areas.

 

Hmm I could do some balanced measuring experiments with my HD800 & CMA800R. Since you only need to measure one channel, I don't need another monoblock. :D Just need to build adapter..

 

(Seriously doubt if there would be any basic FR or other differences. And as we know, no one has yet come up with a way to measure soundstage..)


Edited by hekeli - 8/13/14 at 11:58pm
post #13039 of 18783
Quote:
Originally Posted by 62ohm View Post
 

 

Purrin,

 

Do you think the Sonett 2 would be any good if using only stock/not-very-expensive tubes?

 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by 62ohm View Post
 

 

 I'm worried that if I go with Sonett 2 I would spend a lot more for expensive, premium tubes.. But then again, sometimes that is the fun part of tube amps I guess :p

 

There're not so much possibilities for Tube Rolling on the Sonett. it uses a pair of 6H30p/6N30p  & a GZ34/5AR4 rectifier. There was only one NOS 6H30p , it was the Reflektor 6h30pi-DR "supertubes". They're out of stock so it's very rare and & very expensive. The only two options are Sovtek 6H30p and Electro Harmonix ones. I asked Donald when i purchased my Sonett 2 and i answered me he didn't found the Reflektor 6h30pi brings improvement so I didn't care about these. He said he didn't try EH 6h30p yet . I didn't try myself neither but I will.

 

For the rectifier, Donald said me he tried a NOS Mullard and find a real improvement . I purchased one here in France ( 100€ Shipped) and I'm happy with the result. There're many other NOS GZ34 but I didnt search a lot. Many of those GZ34 seems to be produced by Mullard ? .

 

I really appreciate that Sonett doesn't permit so much tube rolling and Works good  with stock tubes.  It's better for my wallet and the peace of my mind . I can listen to music without asking me all the time if there's some better tube combo somewhere ;) .  The main thing I gained with the metrum + Sonett combo is thart I can switch them on, let them warm a few minutes and forget them when the Music start .


Edited by Sorrodje - 8/14/14 at 7:05am
post #13040 of 18783
Sorrodje,

Did you get yours with the TKD volume potentiometer? What's your thought on it? Also, how long did it take for you to receive yours?
post #13041 of 18783

Hi guys, has anyone tried the Siltech Dutchess Crown HD800 cable? Can you please let me know how's your feeling for this cable? How's it compare with the Cardas Clear? :)

 

Thanks~

post #13042 of 18783
Quote:
Originally Posted by soundeffect View Post

Sorrodje,

Did you get yours with the TKD volume potentiometer? What's your thought on it? Also, how long did it take for you to receive yours?

 

Yes. Donald adviced me the upgrade then I took it and didn't regret it. It's not very expensive but I'm a fan of the sonett volume setting: very smooth and precise , extremely good feeling in the hand. Donald told me it's an upgrade in SQ but I really can''t judge it ;) . 

 

One of the main thing I noticed when I discovered the Sonett is how it can sound good at very low volume levels.  The music sounds exactly the same at very low or very loud volumes. this point will never end to impress me . That been said, It's not related to the TKD potentiometer I think.

post #13043 of 18783

I follow this thread daily with great interest; I'm picking up all kinds of useful tidbits about how to improve my HD800 experience, so thanks to all who are contributing!

 

Five months ago I began my search for "an HD650 with more treble". Having listened to many 'phones and simply not found this mythical beast I went for the HD800 because it has such great detail and soundstage and is a clear improvement over the HD650 in most ways. I've applied the Anaxilus 2.0 mod to remove the HD800 sibilance (a great success) and thence tried to get comfortable with the headphone in lean-back listening sessions. Unfortunately I have continually come away disappointed. Somehow I am just not drawn into the music in the same way I used to be with the HD650.

 

I know my amplifier (the Matrix m-Stage) is low-end, but everyone says that its a good match for the headphone so I can't easily lay the blame there. It is my belief that a DAC has less effect on the sound one hears than the amp (after all the headphone circuit is formed with the amp - the DAC is further removed along the chain) so my thinking is that so long as the DAC is reasonable (I've an HRT microStreamer) one isn't going to make a huge difference to the sound by changing it.

 

Right now I'm at the point where I'd like to hear the HD800 on a mid-range tube amp (e.g. DNA Sonnett) to see whether that'll solve my lack-of-musical-involvement problem, or continue my headphone quest with my current amplifier.

 

When I read such good things about the HE-560 I thought that finally there might be a headphone that is my mythical "HD650 with more treble". See my comparative review here. That audition taught me something very important. What I think the HD800 is missing is midrange; its treble range is distinctly louder than it's midrange. For me this is what prevents me from settling in and getting involved in the music.

 

So then, in my continuing quest to find the "HD650 with more treble" I'm wondering:

 

- will a better (likely valve) amp fill in the HD800's missing midrange and warmth?

- would a cable upgrade improve the midrange?

- what other headphones do people think I should audition?

 

 

Many thanks in advance for any suggestions,

 

Ian


Edited by drdiem - 8/14/14 at 10:06am
post #13044 of 18783

I'm curious if there is a budget DAC that pairs well with the HD 800's like the Vali does as an amp.

 

Basically I'm asking if there is a "Vali-like" DAC in terms of price and performance.

 

I know I won't get the most out of the senns but I would like to know if there is such a DAC.

 

Thanks for any suggestions. 

post #13045 of 18783
Quote:
Originally Posted by drdiem View Post

I follow this thread daily with great interest; I'm picking up all kinds of useful tidbits about how to improve my HD800 experience, so thanks to all who are contributing!

Five months ago I began my search for "an HD650 with more treble". Having listened to many 'phones and simply not found this mythical beast I went for the HD800 because it has such great detail and soundstage and is a clear improvement over the HD650 in most ways. I've applied the Anaxilus 2.0 mod to remove the HD800 sibilance (a great success) and thence tried to get comfortable with the headphone in lean-back listening sessions. Unfortunately I have continually come away disappointed. Somehow I am just not drawn into the music in the same way I used to be with the HD650.

I know my amplifier (the Matrix m-Stage) is low-end, but everyone says that its a good match for the headphone so I can't easily lay the blame there. It is my belief that a DAC has less effect on the sound one hears than the amp (after all the headphone circuit is formed with the amp - the DAC is further removed along the chain) so my thinking is that so long as the DAC is reasonable (I've an HRT microStreamer) one isn't going to make a huge difference to the sound by changing it.

Right now I'm at the point where I'd like to hear the HD800 on a mid-range tube amp (e.g. DNA Sonnett) to see whether that'll solve my lack-of-musical-involvement problem, or continue my headphone quest with my current amplifier.

When I read such good things about the HE-560 I thought that finally there might be a headphone that is my mythical "HD650 with more treble". See my comparative review here. That audition taught me something very important. What I think the HD800 is missing is midrange; its treble range is distinctly louder than it's midrange. For me this is what prevents me from settling in and getting involved in the music.

So then, in my continuing quest to find the "HD650 with more treble" I'm wondering:

- will a better (likely valve) amp fill in the HD800's missing midrange and warmth?
- would a cable upgrade improve the midrange?
- what other headphones do people think I should audition?


Many thanks in advance for any suggestions,

Ian

You need the HD600. That is the HD650 with more treble.
post #13046 of 18783
IMO different headphones will be more dependent on AMP or DAC differently. I find my HE6 highly dependent on the amp, while my HD800 is more DAC dependent, and my LCD3 isn't as sensitive to either for amp or dac. For HD800 you should gain most by upgrading your DAC. Depending on your budget there would be many choices.
post #13047 of 18783
Quote:
Originally Posted by James-uk View Post


You need the HD600. That is the HD650 with more treble.

 

Thanks James, I'll certainly try that. I worry though that it won't be more trebly enough - that it'll be too similar and that there's a better (likely more recent/more expensive) solution. Anyone else have any suggestions for alternate 'phone or whether I can 'fix' the HD800 missing midrange issue with an amp and/or cable?

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by kkcc View Post


IMO different headphones will be more dependent on AMP or DAC differently. I find my HE6 highly dependent on the amp, while my HD800 is more DAC dependent, and my LCD3 isn't as sensitive to either for amp or dac. For HD800 you should gain most by upgrading your DAC. Depending on your budget there would be many choices.

 

Really? Ah jeez. It just got more complicated :rolleyes:

 

Ian


Edited by drdiem - 8/14/14 at 10:29am
post #13048 of 18783

whats better amp for hd800? valhalla 2 or bottlehead crack+sb?

post #13049 of 18783
Quote:
Originally Posted by drdiem View Post

 

I know my amplifier (the Matrix m-Stage) is low-end, but everyone says that its a good match for the headphone so I can't easily lay the blame there. It is my belief that a DAC has less effect on the sound one hears than the amp (after all the headphone circuit is formed with the amp - the DAC is further removed along the chain) so my thinking is that so long as the DAC is reasonable (I've an HRT microStreamer) one isn't going to make a huge difference to the sound by changing it.

 

Right now I'm at the point where I'd like to hear the HD800 on a mid-range tube amp (e.g. DNA Sonnett) to see whether that'll solve my lack-of-musical-involvement problem, or continue my headphone quest with my current amplifier.

 

So then, in my continuing quest to find the "HD650 with more treble" I'm wondering:

 

- will a better (likely valve) amp fill in the HD800's missing midrange and warmth?

- would a cable upgrade improve the midrange?

- what other headphones do people think I should audition?

 

  1. Your DAC is more than reasonable at this stage; however read below
  2. A good valve amp will fill in the warmth to varying degree depending upon amp, tubes, etc.
  3. Midrange has never been the HD800's forte. Some HD800s users resort to a resistor ladder DAC, i.e. Metrum, AGD M7, to improve midrange, e.g. vocals.
  4. The M-Stage is a good match for the HD800 in that it's a warm sounding amp which has sufficient power for the HD800 - so that the HD800 does not sound limpish, lean, edgy, nasty. Otherwise, in the overall scheme of things, the M-Stage is pretty craptastic. I owned the M-Stage many years ago.
  5. The good valve amps will sound more involving, more spacious, more layered. more dynamic, less compressed in terms of huge and small volume changes, than the M-Stage (and actually the majority of solid-state amps). Good valve amps have the ability to do these instantaneous swings in small volume changes which the M-Stage cannot do. Really digging into the music. The HD800 will respond to this.
  6. The HD800 is always going to sound like an HD800, on the dry side, analytical; however
  7. You can resort to something syrupy and lush like a Leben, WA2, Cary amp. But honestly, you are better off with an LCD-2 or HE-500 because amps like that take away too much from the inherent strengths of the HD800.
  8. Best to play to the HD800s strengths and do what we can to take off the edge and add some warmth; and live with that. Just one philosophy. I think I've mentioned this before, but I cringe when I see people put over a hundred pounds of supercharger, intercooler, piping over the front wheels of an FR-S/BRZ. Sort of defeats the point of the car.

Edited by purrin - 8/14/14 at 10:43am
post #13050 of 18783
Quote:
Originally Posted by listen4joy View Post
 

whats better amp for hd800? valhalla 2 or bottlehead crack+sb?

 

Val2 is more resolving, faster, but less warm.

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