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The (new) HD800 Impressions Thread - Page 828

post #12406 of 17701
Quote:
Originally Posted by Maxvla View Post
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by ubs28 View Post

Will the Chord Hugo + Sennheiser HD800 work great? I'm interested in the Chord Hugo since I also got the Shure SE846 which needs a new amplifier.
I've heard the pairing. It's decent, but not great. If you must use HD800s in a transportable situation (hotel room, mixing tracks away from home, etc) it's good enough. As a main rig, no way.

 

What about the Centrance HiFi-M8? Would it be a better solution for a transportable HD800 rig?

post #12407 of 17701
I wish I was smart enough to explain the cause of the phenomena SE. All I can share is what I hear and that various threads and posted measurements seem to agree that higher output impedance leads to a slight bass boost and a fuller sounding hd800. Some speculate that hd800s can be overdamped (and I don't mean mechanically - see eg http://www.hydrogenaud.io/forums/index.php?showtopic=101834 ). For all I know, part of the effect could be slight added distortion, which might ultimately sound more real/pleasing (to some of us?) because of the room effects we are accustomed to hearing when listening to real life bass instruments and voices.

I can PM you with a link if you like, but there is a thread elsewhere
where purrin posted comparative measurements using impedance adapters which showed how the hd800 FR curve changes as output impedance goes up. The bass develops quite a hump.

Thanks for the link you posted! I've read a couple of other interesting benchmark articles on output impedance (eg how they advocate against push pull circuits because output impedance doubles). Along the same lines, I read all of nwavguy's proselytizing about 0 ohm output impedance back in the day. I agree that this school of design seems to make a lot of sense, but most headfiers don't seem to find measurement first headamps like the o2 or benchmark dac1 headamp to be ideal pairings with hd800s. (I love my agdr modded o2 with my ADs though...)

I'd love to better understand all this. Senns decision to run with a slightly high output impedance on their own amps seems consistent with the theory that 0 ohms doesn't yield ideal FR or damping with hd800s though. Thoughts?
post #12408 of 17701

well, i just finished listening to Pink Floyd's Coming back To Life, from the Division Bell remastered cd.

 

It literally made the hair on my arms stand up........I just love these cans  :D

post #12409 of 17701
Quote:
Originally Posted by skeptic View Post

Thanks for the link you posted! I've read a couple of other interesting benchmark articles on output impedance (eg how they advocate against push pull circuits because output impedance doubles). Along the same lines, I read all of nwavguy's proselytizing about 0 ohm output impedance back in the day. I agree that this school of design seems to make a lot of sense, but most headfiers don't seem to find measurement first headamps like the o2 or benchmark dac1 headamp to be ideal pairings with hd800s. (I love my agdr modded o2 with my ADs though...)

I'd love to better understand all this. Senns decision to run with a slightly high output impedance on their own amps seems consistent with the theory that 0 ohms doesn't yield ideal FR or damping with hd800s though. Thoughts?

 

Running my HD800's through 1 ohm output impedance of my Master-6 and it sounds superb.

Plenty of deep tight impactful bass, smooth but extended treble, full open midrange. Combine that with superb speed, detail and dynamics and I could wish for nothing more.  :D

 

So I don't think it's just an impedance issue.

post #12410 of 17701
Quote:
Originally Posted by nigeljames View Post

Running my HD800's through 1 ohm output impedance of my Master-6 and it sounds superb.
Plenty of deep tight impactful bass, smooth but extended treble, full open midrange. Combine that with superb speed, detail and dynamics and I could wish for nothing more.  biggrin.gif

So I don't think it's just an impedance issue.

Good to hear that it works well with M6, but it would be more useful if you are comparing it straight from M6 vs M6 with an adapter that changed the OI and see if you find any difference.
post #12411 of 17701
Quote:
Originally Posted by skeptic View Post

I wish I was smart enough to explain the cause of the phenomena SE. All I can share is what I hear and that various threads and posted measurements seem to agree that higher output impedance leads to a slight bass boost and a fuller sounding hd800. Some speculate that hd800s can be overdamped (and I don't mean mechanically - see eg http://www.hydrogenaud.io/forums/index.php?showtopic=101834 ). For all I know, part of the effect could be slight added distortion, which might ultimately sound more real/pleasing (to some of us?) because of the room effects we are accustomed to hearing when listening to real life bass instruments and voices.

I can PM you with a link if you like, but there is a thread elsewhere
where purrin posted comparative measurements using impedance adapters which showed how the hd800 FR curve changes as output impedance goes up. The bass develops quite a hump.

Thanks for the link you posted! I've read a couple of other interesting benchmark articles on output impedance (eg how they advocate against push pull circuits because output impedance doubles). Along the same lines, I read all of nwavguy's proselytizing about 0 ohm output impedance back in the day. I agree that this school of design seems to make a lot of sense, but most headfiers don't seem to find measurement first headamps like the o2 or benchmark dac1 headamp to be ideal pairings with hd800s. (I love my agdr modded o2 with my ADs though...)

I'd love to better understand all this. Senns decision to run with a slightly high output impedance on their own amps seems consistent with the theory that 0 ohms doesn't yield ideal FR or damping with hd800s though. Thoughts?

 

The Sonett 2 provides an impedance switch so i can choose between IEC output impedance ( 120 Ohms) and standard Sonett Impedance ( 12ohms in low gain , 28 in High gain & on XLR output ) . I tried the IEC setting and found the result a bit "muddy". I switched back to low impedance mode and never looked back since .  I don't know if this experience can be extened to other amps.

post #12412 of 17701
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pepper View Post
 


This worries me a lot :(. Hopefully I will get a chance to audition the Marantz 2245 before I commit. This JVC sounds really good to my ears and all, but it does sound a little sloppy at times (whatever that means). Thanks for the heads up.

 

I would love to try out the HD800s with the WA2 or something like the ZDSE... But they're both a trillion times more expensive than these vintage amps.

 

I just can't believe I've been they to my HD800s through something like the O2 and thinking that's all they really had to deliver. I love these so much I even came home early today to listen to them.

Yeah the problem with all vintage amps is that because they are old the sound can vary dramatically between the same models depending on the condition inside. Dying capacitors can really dull the sound compared to an amp that hasn't had much use for instance. Always clean the pots and switches with contact cleaner as there will be a build-up of oxides if it hasn't been serviced in a long while, this can make a dramatic difference too as the signal travels through all pots and switches.

 

Just a note on 70's Marantz in general and IME- They look lovely :) But there are much better sounding amps for a lot less money. Don't get me wrong, they sound nice and will power the HD800's well and add body - but what you pay for a Marantz you could have A LOT better sound (and a higher end model) for your money with a 70's Pioneer, Sansui, Trio, Yamaha or my particular fave with the HD800 an early 80's NAD.

 

This is obviously just my two cents as some are very happy with the old Marantz sound :)  

 

Just a note on 120ohm, I would advise anyone who thinks the HD800 can sound a little dry or thin (and there are peeps out there! ;) to try a high impedance output and see if it pleases them. I think it can work great if you want a more bassy HD800. These days I tend to think it can be a little bit overkill as the sub bass isn't as tight as lower impedance amps... But its all give and take and what you lose you gain etc... The NAD amps I mentioned above have very low impedance value for vintage and they sound more 'right' to me. 

post #12413 of 17701
Quote:
Originally Posted by LugBug1 View Post
 

Yeah the problem with all vintage amps is that because they are old the sound can vary dramatically between the same models depending on the condition inside. Dying capacitors can really dull the sound compared to an amp that hasn't had much use for instance. Always clean the pots and switches with contact cleaner as there will be a build-up of oxides if it hasn't been serviced in a long while, this can make a dramatic difference too as the signal travels through all pots and switches.

 

Just a note on 70's Marantz in general and IME- They look lovely :) But there are much better sounding amps for a lot less money. Don't get me wrong, they sound nice and will power the HD800's well and add body - but what you pay for a Marantz you could have A LOT better sound (and a higher end model) for your money with a 70's Pioneer, Sansui, Trio, Yamaha or my particular fave with the HD800 an early 80's NAD.

 

This is obviously just my two cents as some are very happy with the old Marantz sound :)  

 

Just a note on 120ohm, I would advise anyone who thinks the HD800 can sound a little dry or thin (and there are peeps out there! ;) to try a high impedance output and see if it pleases them. I think it can work great if you want a more bassy HD800. These days I tend to think it can be a little bit overkill as the sub bass isn't as tight as lower impedance amps... But its all give and take and what you lose you gain etc... The NAD amps I mentioned above have very low impedance value for vintage and they sound more 'right' to me. 

 

THIS...

post #12414 of 17701
Quote:
Originally Posted by LugBug1 View Post
 

 

Thanks! Actually, instead of the PM, would you happen to have any recommendations as to some of these models that pair the best?

 

You speak highly of the NAD amp, but I don't know much about them. Is there a particular model I should be looking out for?

post #12415 of 17701
Quote:
Originally Posted by nigeljames View Post
 

 

Running my HD800's through 1 ohm output impedance of my Master-6 and it sounds superb.

Plenty of deep tight impactful bass, smooth but extended treble, full open midrange. Combine that with superb speed, detail and dynamics and I could wish for nothing more.  :D

 

So I don't think it's just an impedance issue.

 

No doubt you're right!  Output impedance is just one interesting part of the equation when amping hd800's -- one means of increasing bass response and perceived fullness (but also bass bloom) by a few plainly audible db's as it goes up.  I don't doubt that there are many excellent ss headamps out there that pair beautifully with hd800's.  Higher output impedance is just an easily identified factor that can change the balance and FR for those who find them a little too lean or treble heavy.  

 

Honestly, I was surprised when I found out the output impedance numbers on the Sennheiser amps.  I would love to hear an insider perspective on how they made their design decisions.  Granted, I prefer the sound of my modded crack to my "boosted" o2 with hd800's, but 40 ohms seems relatively unusual among modern ss gear.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sorrodje View Post
 

 

The Sonett 2 provides an impedance switch so i can choose between IEC output impedance ( 120 Ohms) and standard Sonett Impedance ( 12ohms in low gain , 28 in High gain & on XLR output ) . I tried the IEC setting and found the result a bit "muddy". I switched back to low impedance mode and never looked back since .  I don't know if this experience can be extened to other amps.

 

Actually, your experience mirrors my own with the mainline.  I use the low impedance setting (nominally 16 ohms but effectively single digit per BH's recent clarification on the topic) 90% of the time with my hd800 because it sounds cleaner, tighter and faster to me, and the mainline has 0 issues with strident trebles.  

 

I don't mean to suggest that high output impedance is somehow objectively better when amping hd800's, but try the following: listen for an hour with something like the o2 and then jack them into an OTL amp or vintage receiver for a very refreshing change of pace.  At CanJam, I went from listening to hd800's on a headamp max to Woo Audio table.  They almost sounded like different headphones.  Kind of like that thread regarding the android app fiio is developing that makes one headphone sound like another purely through eq.    

post #12416 of 17701
Quote:
Originally Posted by skeptic View Post
 listen for an hour with something like the o2 and then jack them into an OTL amp or vintage receiver for a very refreshing change of pace.  At CanJam, I went from listening to hd800's on a headamp max to Woo Audio table.  They almost sounded like different headphones.  Kind of like that thread regarding the android app fiio is developing that makes one headphone sound like another purely through eq.    

 

 

 

That's a point that characterizes very well the HD800. This can can really sound differently depending on the upstream gear associated with

I tried a HD650 last WE. it sounded beautifully on my Sonett/Octave Rig but the first and main thing I thought is that i don't need a HD650 as compliment. my HD800/Sonett/Metrum Octave system covers all bases for my personal tastes . I can really enjoy every music I want without any need of another headphone.

 

That been said, i'm really interested in listening more amps, dacs & headphones despite the fact I'm fully happy with my current rig. :beerchug:


Edited by Sorrodje - 7/29/14 at 1:35pm
post #12417 of 17701

Thinking of going with the HD800's to join my rig, currently have LCD-X + Hugo + Studio Six. ALO were telling me this morning what a great combination the HD800's are with the SS.

 

Anyone tried this combo and can report?

post #12418 of 17701
I can attest to the HD800 pairing very well with the studio six - best I have heard myself smily_headphones1.gif imho of course..
post #12419 of 17701
Quote:
Originally Posted by Revogamer View Post

I can attest to the HD800 pairing very well with the studio six - best I have heard myself smily_headphones1.gif imho of course..


Can you give any impressions please on the differences between LCD-X and HD800's?

 

What cable are you running?

 

Thanks

post #12420 of 17701

Cables are standard on my HD800's but will be going Reference 16 soon..

 

The LCD-X has more weight to it; the HD800 has a much airier presentation and a much larger sound stage, the S6 tames the treble so that it is detailed and not harsh.

 

Pretty much in line with what everyone else says.. different than better; what kind of music do you listen to mostly?

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