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The (new) HD800 Impressions Thread - Page 828

post #12406 of 13980
Quote:
Originally Posted by reddog View Post


In the head-fi summer 2014 guide, The Chord Hugo was demonstrated, for Jude, with the HD800. The cans seemed to run just fine with the C.H.

Thanks :)

post #12407 of 13980
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pepper View Post
 

Just got my hands on a vintage JVC RS-5 receiver, and the HD800s have suddenly come alive. I can't believe I haven't ever listened to them through something like this... I was running them out of the Objective2s before, and it was very articulate but it was very lifeless and dull.

 

Now the HD800s sound more like speakers instead of headphones.

 

The RS-5 isn't even good. I'm trying to purchase a famed a Marantz 2245 next week. Let's see how that goes!


Pepper, I hope you have better luck pairing your HD800 with a vintage Marantz than I had. My recapped 2226B sounded...well, gritty. I didn't expect that, since that Marantz paired so well with the HE500s I used to own.

 

FWIW, I'm completely blown away by the HD800/Woo WA2 combo. :beerchug:

post #12408 of 13980
Quote:
Originally Posted by skeptic View Post
 

I'll wager that your JVC has a nice high output impedance on its headphone jack, like many other vintage receivers.  What is bad for low ohm phones and iems often sounds really good with hd800's (at least to a lot of us!).  Google up: "hd800 and 120ohm standard"  

Explain to me how this standard works,who came up with the standard.  And what this 120ohms is doing.  Explain the study in details. Then I'll buy it.  In the mean time, here is some literature.

 

http://test.benchmarkmedia.com/discuss/sites/default/files/Headphone-Amplifier-Performance-Part-2.pdf

 

:popcorn: 


Edited by SilverEars - 7/28/14 at 7:04pm
post #12409 of 13980

120 Ohm was/is the design standard because the headphone jack on most amps back then was tapped direct from the speaker output with around 120 Ohm of resistance added to reduce gain to headphone friendly levels. 

post #12410 of 13980

I just received my color-coordinated-by Colorware Sennheiser HD 800 headphones and HDVD 800 DAC/amp! YAY!!!

 

Colors chosen to go with my prized red-and-black FIAT Abarth, as shown...

 

HD/HDVD 800s selected for the best in color-coordinated on-the-road listening!  :wink_face:

 

Initial impressions? Absolutely BREATHTAKING on .wav version of Nikolaus Harnoncourt recording of Mozart's Requiem

 

I then wanted to try its bass response, so I went to my bass test track to find its sub bass was horribly distorted.  Using the same amp but another headphone (Sennheiser HD 598), sub bass was STILL distorted.

 

I brought up more details in the HDVD 800 thread here:  http://www.head-fi.org/t/605444/sennheiser-hdvd800-headphone-amplifier/2145#post_10750794

 

Thanks to SilverEars, I think I'm getting some insight on this...

 

Anyway, I'm now in a new world with an amplifier where bass is actually played rather than attenuated, and the HD 800 is known to be most revealing of defects such as compression.  Lots to learn and try!

 

edit 40 min later... was neither the headphone nor the amp... I unknowingly had my iTunes PC equalizer turned up for +12 dB bass boost at 32 Hz!  Wild distortion!  Clue was when Windows Media Player played the same file just fine.


Edited by kayandjohn - 7/28/14 at 8:57pm
post #12411 of 13980
Quote:
Originally Posted by OldSkool View Post
 


Pepper, I hope you have better luck pairing your HD800 with a vintage Marantz than I had. My recapped 2226B sounded...well, gritty. I didn't expect that, since that Marantz paired so well with the HE500s I used to own.

 

FWIW, I'm completely blown away by the HD800/Woo WA2 combo. :beerchug:


This worries me a lot :(. Hopefully I will get a chance to audition the Marantz 2245 before I commit. This JVC sounds really good to my ears and all, but it does sound a little sloppy at times (whatever that means). Thanks for the heads up.

 

I would love to try out the HD800s with the WA2 or something like the ZDSE... But they're both a trillion times more expensive than these vintage amps.

 

I just can't believe I've been listening to my HD800s through something like the O2 and thinking that's all they really had to deliver. I love these so much I even came home early today to listen to them.

post #12412 of 13980
Quote:
Originally Posted by ubs28 View Post

Will the Chord Hugo + Sennheiser HD800 work great? I'm interested in the Chord Hugo since I also got the Shure SE846 which needs a new amplifier.
I've heard the pairing. It's decent, but not great. If you must use HD800s in a transportable situation (hotel room, mixing tracks away from home, etc) it's good enough. As a main rig, no way.
post #12413 of 13980
Quote:
Originally Posted by kayandjohn View Post

 

edit 40 min later... was neither the headphone nor the amp... I unknowingly had my iTunes PC equalizer turned up for +12 dB bass boost at 32 Hz!  Wild distortion!  Clue was when Windows Media Player played the same file just fine.

Now we know, when something clips, EQ should be checked also.  :tongue:  On a related note, graphic equalizer for foobar that I use has anti-clipping mechanism when you try to boost the frequencies.  The volume will lower when boosting, and I thought it was odd, and Lug said it was to prevent clipping.  

post #12414 of 13980
Quote:
Originally Posted by Maxvla View Post
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by ubs28 View Post

Will the Chord Hugo + Sennheiser HD800 work great? I'm interested in the Chord Hugo since I also got the Shure SE846 which needs a new amplifier.
I've heard the pairing. It's decent, but not great. If you must use HD800s in a transportable situation (hotel room, mixing tracks away from home, etc) it's good enough. As a main rig, no way.

 

What about the Centrance HiFi-M8? Would it be a better solution for a transportable HD800 rig?

post #12415 of 13980
I wish I was smart enough to explain the cause of the phenomena SE. All I can share is what I hear and that various threads and posted measurements seem to agree that higher output impedance leads to a slight bass boost and a fuller sounding hd800. Some speculate that hd800s can be overdamped (and I don't mean mechanically - see eg http://www.hydrogenaud.io/forums/index.php?showtopic=101834 ). For all I know, part of the effect could be slight added distortion, which might ultimately sound more real/pleasing (to some of us?) because of the room effects we are accustomed to hearing when listening to real life bass instruments and voices.

I can PM you with a link if you like, but there is a thread elsewhere
where purrin posted comparative measurements using impedance adapters which showed how the hd800 FR curve changes as output impedance goes up. The bass develops quite a hump.

Thanks for the link you posted! I've read a couple of other interesting benchmark articles on output impedance (eg how they advocate against push pull circuits because output impedance doubles). Along the same lines, I read all of nwavguy's proselytizing about 0 ohm output impedance back in the day. I agree that this school of design seems to make a lot of sense, but most headfiers don't seem to find measurement first headamps like the o2 or benchmark dac1 headamp to be ideal pairings with hd800s. (I love my agdr modded o2 with my ADs though...)

I'd love to better understand all this. Senns decision to run with a slightly high output impedance on their own amps seems consistent with the theory that 0 ohms doesn't yield ideal FR or damping with hd800s though. Thoughts?
post #12416 of 13980

well, i just finished listening to Pink Floyd's Coming back To Life, from the Division Bell remastered cd.

 

It literally made the hair on my arms stand up........I just love these cans  :D

post #12417 of 13980
Quote:
Originally Posted by skeptic View Post

Thanks for the link you posted! I've read a couple of other interesting benchmark articles on output impedance (eg how they advocate against push pull circuits because output impedance doubles). Along the same lines, I read all of nwavguy's proselytizing about 0 ohm output impedance back in the day. I agree that this school of design seems to make a lot of sense, but most headfiers don't seem to find measurement first headamps like the o2 or benchmark dac1 headamp to be ideal pairings with hd800s. (I love my agdr modded o2 with my ADs though...)

I'd love to better understand all this. Senns decision to run with a slightly high output impedance on their own amps seems consistent with the theory that 0 ohms doesn't yield ideal FR or damping with hd800s though. Thoughts?

 

Running my HD800's through 1 ohm output impedance of my Master-6 and it sounds superb.

Plenty of deep tight impactful bass, smooth but extended treble, full open midrange. Combine that with superb speed, detail and dynamics and I could wish for nothing more.  :D

 

So I don't think it's just an impedance issue.

post #12418 of 13980
Quote:
Originally Posted by nigeljames View Post

Running my HD800's through 1 ohm output impedance of my Master-6 and it sounds superb.
Plenty of deep tight impactful bass, smooth but extended treble, full open midrange. Combine that with superb speed, detail and dynamics and I could wish for nothing more.  biggrin.gif

So I don't think it's just an impedance issue.

Good to hear that it works well with M6, but it would be more useful if you are comparing it straight from M6 vs M6 with an adapter that changed the OI and see if you find any difference.
post #12419 of 13980
Quote:
Originally Posted by skeptic View Post

I wish I was smart enough to explain the cause of the phenomena SE. All I can share is what I hear and that various threads and posted measurements seem to agree that higher output impedance leads to a slight bass boost and a fuller sounding hd800. Some speculate that hd800s can be overdamped (and I don't mean mechanically - see eg http://www.hydrogenaud.io/forums/index.php?showtopic=101834 ). For all I know, part of the effect could be slight added distortion, which might ultimately sound more real/pleasing (to some of us?) because of the room effects we are accustomed to hearing when listening to real life bass instruments and voices.

I can PM you with a link if you like, but there is a thread elsewhere
where purrin posted comparative measurements using impedance adapters which showed how the hd800 FR curve changes as output impedance goes up. The bass develops quite a hump.

Thanks for the link you posted! I've read a couple of other interesting benchmark articles on output impedance (eg how they advocate against push pull circuits because output impedance doubles). Along the same lines, I read all of nwavguy's proselytizing about 0 ohm output impedance back in the day. I agree that this school of design seems to make a lot of sense, but most headfiers don't seem to find measurement first headamps like the o2 or benchmark dac1 headamp to be ideal pairings with hd800s. (I love my agdr modded o2 with my ADs though...)

I'd love to better understand all this. Senns decision to run with a slightly high output impedance on their own amps seems consistent with the theory that 0 ohms doesn't yield ideal FR or damping with hd800s though. Thoughts?

 

The Sonett 2 provides an impedance switch so i can choose between IEC output impedance ( 120 Ohms) and standard Sonett Impedance ( 12ohms in low gain , 28 in High gain & on XLR output ) . I tried the IEC setting and found the result a bit "muddy". I switched back to low impedance mode and never looked back since .  I don't know if this experience can be extened to other amps.

post #12420 of 13980
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pepper View Post
 


This worries me a lot :(. Hopefully I will get a chance to audition the Marantz 2245 before I commit. This JVC sounds really good to my ears and all, but it does sound a little sloppy at times (whatever that means). Thanks for the heads up.

 

I would love to try out the HD800s with the WA2 or something like the ZDSE... But they're both a trillion times more expensive than these vintage amps.

 

I just can't believe I've been they to my HD800s through something like the O2 and thinking that's all they really had to deliver. I love these so much I even came home early today to listen to them.

Yeah the problem with all vintage amps is that because they are old the sound can vary dramatically between the same models depending on the condition inside. Dying capacitors can really dull the sound compared to an amp that hasn't had much use for instance. Always clean the pots and switches with contact cleaner as there will be a build-up of oxides if it hasn't been serviced in a long while, this can make a dramatic difference too as the signal travels through all pots and switches.

 

Just a note on 70's Marantz in general and IME- They look lovely :) But there are much better sounding amps for a lot less money. Don't get me wrong, they sound nice and will power the HD800's well and add body - but what you pay for a Marantz you could have A LOT better sound (and a higher end model) for your money with a 70's Pioneer, Sansui, Trio, Yamaha or my particular fave with the HD800 an early 80's NAD.

 

This is obviously just my two cents as some are very happy with the old Marantz sound :)  

 

Just a note on 120ohm, I would advise anyone who thinks the HD800 can sound a little dry or thin (and there are peeps out there! ;) to try a high impedance output and see if it pleases them. I think it can work great if you want a more bassy HD800. These days I tend to think it can be a little bit overkill as the sub bass isn't as tight as lower impedance amps... But its all give and take and what you lose you gain etc... The NAD amps I mentioned above have very low impedance value for vintage and they sound more 'right' to me. 

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