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post #31 of 72
Quote:
Originally Posted by preproman View Post

Are you serious?

 

As in, you expected it to be more? less?

post #32 of 72
Quote:
Originally Posted by mwilson View Post

 

As in, you expected it to be more? less?

 

 

lol..  Maybe a tad bit less..

post #33 of 72

What kind of price did you expect, seriously?

 

He's going to have to make money, you know. 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by preproman View Post

lol..  Maybe a tad bit less..

post #34 of 72
I think he's used to high end SS being B22 and GS-X at $1500-2500.
post #35 of 72
Quote:
Originally Posted by MorbidToaster View Post

What kind of price did you expect, seriously?

 

He's going to have to make money, you know. 

 

 

So your saying in a single enclosure build "should" cost more than say a ....Darkstar? - which is a dual enclosure by the way..

 

What other single enclosure SS amp is anywhere near that price?

post #36 of 72

I guess...I have a feeling it'll blow the B22 out of the water...the GS-X on the other hand. That's a nice pedigree to try and beat. We'll see I guess. 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Maxvla View Post

I think he's used to high end SS being B22 and GS-X at $1500-2500.
post #37 of 72
Quote:
Originally Posted by preproman View Post


lol..  Maybe a tad bit less..

Ok. I wasn't trying to be smart, just didn't know what the pricing expectations were.
post #38 of 72

Not to make any accusations but I'd be willing to bet Ray has a lot more leeway pricing wise to put into case work... :| I personally think the Dark Star is hideous, too. I'd rather have a single box that takes up one shelf.

 

Why does the casework matter at all? It's an overall small part of the cost when you consider actual part prices. I personally could care less about how many boxes it is. 

 

If it beats two box amps you're already way past the diminishing returns threshold...why not just buy the best?

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by preproman View Post

 

So your saying in a single enclosure build "should" cost more than say a ....Darkstar? - which is a dual enclosure by the way..

 

What other single enclosure SS amp is anywhere near that price?

post #39 of 72
The casework in the Darkstar is actually quite a bit of the cost, and while you may not like it's appearance, I kinda like it. It's not perfect, but still nice. 2 box solutions are mostly for separating power from signal so there is less interference. This is why Schiit's products have rear power switches so that it keeps all the AC as far away from the signal as possible, this is also likely why Alex makes his amps with the fancy power switch. It keeps the AC away from the front of the case while still allowing a front power switch.
post #40 of 72

I know it is, that's my point. Alex's latest enclosures are very nice and while not 2 boxes they're not cheap either. I'd eager they're actually nicer than Ray's as well judging from some of his other amps. 

 

You paying more for parts and less for a fancy case.

 

That's exactly why Alex does his switches that way, by the way. This was clarified in another thread recently, IIRC.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Maxvla View Post

The casework in the Darkstar is actually quite a bit of the cost, and while you may not like it's appearance, I kinda like it. It's not perfect, but still nice. 2 box solutions are mostly for separating power from signal so there is less interference. This is why Schiit's products have rear power switches so that it keeps all the AC as far away from the signal as possible, this is also likely why Alex makes his amps with the fancy power switch. It keeps the AC away from the front of the case while still allowing a front power switch.
post #41 of 72
Quote:
Originally Posted by MorbidToaster View Post
If it beats two box amps you're already way past the diminishing returns threshold...why not just buy the best?

 

X2

 

I can't deny I love good case work.  I think Justin does the best work-most tasteful in the Headphone amp world.  The two box look is kind of cool looking to me but that's a stereo geek think like I used to have to have a separate DAC and transport etc.  Ultimately I just want what sounds best and I hope it looks good but if not(my W4S DAC2 case....ahem.....in point.  Not good looking but great sounding.  Some day I'm going to do something with that case.  Maybe when the upgrades are offered this year.)...........  I love how my LF looks......love it!

post #42 of 72
Quote:
Originally Posted by MorbidToaster View Post

Not to make any accusations but I'd be willing to bet Ray has a lot more leeway pricing wise to put into case work... :| I personally think the Dark Star is hideous, too. I'd rather have a single box that takes up one shelf.

 

Why does the casework matter at all? It's an overall small part of the cost when you consider actual part prices. I personally could care less about how many boxes it is. 

 

If it beats two box amps you're already way past the diminishing returns threshold...why not just buy the best?

 

The casework doesn't matter, it's just that all the cost of Ray's Darkstar is in the case.  I guess you have no idea.  His Darkstar casework is way more than the cost of parts.  I myself would like a two box solution for various reasons I guess your unaware of.  

 

Parts??

The only way to get TOL parts through out the amp is to go DIY.  You will not get TOL parts from "most" commerical products.  So if parts cost say 1K total per amp and if the casework is an overall small part.  From a consumers perspective 4K is just over the top.

post #43 of 72

I feel like we're going in a circle. We're both saying the exact same thing. If you buy a Darkstar you're paying a lot of that money for a box, not the parts. I understand why people would want a 2 box unit, but a properly designed single box unit should be just as 'free from interference' as a 2 box one. 

 

I think you have no idea when it comes to parts cost. I can guarantee that the LG has more than 1k worth of parts in it (if you're implying there's less in it). Parts/Case cost is very different, rather than being 'a small part', just to rephrase. 

A small part compared to the parts is still fairly high cost. 

 

We're arguing about quite a few unknowns here though as we don't know what it looks like and we don't know the actual cost (hell we don't even know what it sounds like), but if casework is the main argument right now, I bet it'll look gorgeous after seeing his latest efforts on the LG. The case was much improved from the previous LF and LL.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by preproman View Post

 

The casework doesn't matter, it's just that all the cost of Ray's Darkstar is in the case.  I guess you have no idea.  His Darkstar casework is way more than the cost of parts.  I myself would like a two box solution for various reasons I guess your unaware of.  

 

Parts??

The only way to get TOL parts through out the amp is to go DIY.  You will not get TOL parts from "most" commerical products.  So if parts cost say 1K total per amp and if the casework is an overall small part.  From a consumers perspective 4K is just over the top.

post #44 of 72
Quote:
Originally Posted by MorbidToaster View Post

I feel like we're going in a circle. We're both saying the exact same thing. If you buy a Darkstar you're paying a lot of that money for a box, not the parts. I understand why people would want a 2 box unit, but a properly designed single box unit should be just as 'free from interference' as a 2 box one. 

 

I think you have no idea when it comes to parts cost. I can guarantee that the LG has more than 1k worth of parts in it (if you're implying there's less in it). Parts/Case cost is very different, rather than being 'a small part', just to rephrase. 

A small part compared to the parts is still fairly high cost. 

 

We're arguing about quite a few unknowns here though as we don't know what it looks like and we don't know the actual cost (hell we don't even know what it sounds like), but if casework is the main argument right now, I bet it'll look gorgeous after seeing his latest efforts on the LG. The case was much improved from the previous LF and LL

 

I have no idea about part cost?  Sorry, I have 3 DIY amps and 1 DIY DAC.  I had to buy the parts for all.  I don't know about part cost - ha ha ha. that's funny.  My reference is about SS amps anyway which the LAu is - not the LG.

 

What we're discussing is the price of 4K you through out there.  My point is for a SS amp with one enclosure 4K is to high - period.  Because yes, I'm well aware what TOL parts cost for SS amps.

post #45 of 72

I meant LAu, not LG, sorry. Screwed up my letters. It really is kind of hard to keep it all straight sometimes. I'll fix that.

 

 

Quote:

I can guarantee that the LAu has more than 1k worth of parts in it

 

 

I WASN'T SAYING YOU DIDN'T KNOW WHAT PARTS COST. I was saying you have no idea how much an LAu costs to build, parts wise. I wasn't trying to insult you as I know you're a heavy DIYer. Again, poor phrasing on my part.

 

Now what I will say if that coming from a DIY standpoint you really don't have any idea what you have to charge vs cost to sustain a business. 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by preproman View Post

 

I have no idea about part cost?  Sorry, I have 3 DIY amps and 1 DIY DAC.  I had to buy the parts for all.  I don't know about part cost - ha ha ha. that's funny.  My reference is about SS amps anyway which the LAu is - not the LG.

 

What we're discussing is the price of 4K you through out there.  My point is for a SS amp with one enclosure 4K is to high - period.  Because yes, I'm well aware what TOL parts cost for SS amps.

EDIT: This is the age old argument that comes up time and time again in the 'audiophile' world. Why are companies charging so much more for this than the parts suggest? Some companies are just ridiculous with with 100x markup, etc. Alex has never and will never do this. He's just trying to make Cavalli Audio a sustainable business. 


Edited by MorbidToaster - 2/13/13 at 7:08am
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