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Non-audiophile reactions to high-end headphones Part II - Page 43

post #631 of 3818

I was almost sure that someone would jump to conclusions and misinterpret what I said as a paraphrase of "the only people who don't spend lots of money on good gear are people who aren't good enough people to enjoy music".


Edited by Tus-Chan - 7/18/13 at 10:53pm
post #632 of 3818
Quote:
Originally Posted by xkonfuzed View Post

Same with me, my friends think my DT880's have no bass at all. I guess what people are looking for nowadays is fart cannon, bloated, muddy bass that's messes up the entire spectrum.

Since when has this been different? Not in 30 years... It's only a select few audiophile geeks that like "good" sound.
post #633 of 3818
Quote:
Originally Posted by Muzeick View Post

The difference is that most people can enjoy music whatever its bit rate, whatever the speakers or earphones and whatever the player. Whereas audiophiles are so uptight sweating the tiniest details and brushstrokes that they miss the beauty of the picture. Confusing the medium with the message.

Also, this is very true for many "audiophiles" sweating over cable sounds.
post #634 of 3818
Quote:
Originally Posted by Muzeick View Post

The difference is that most people can enjoy music whatever its bit rate, whatever the speakers or earphones and whatever the player. Whereas audiophiles are so uptight sweating the tiniest details and brushstrokes that they miss the beauty of the picture. Confusing the medium with the message.
I would agree and disagree with your statement. I've found that with hifi audio that I can hear some instruments that I've never heard before in some of my favourite songs. It increases my respect for the artist and also gives a new perspective the music. Using the photography parallel, it's like putting on a pair of glasses. Normally you would see the basic details of the picture with no glasses. But once you put on your glasses you see every little detail. Just because you can see that detail doesn't mean you lose the full picture.
post #635 of 3818
I dunno, I consider myself if not an audiophile then at the very least a headphone and general audio enthusiast, my rig is pretty near endgame, and I still don't give the back end of a rat about listening to music on subpar systems. I have a pair of old computer speakers at the office, I don't even know what brand or model they are, and they sound like a potential upgrade to a pair of tin cans could be in my future. I don't care. The mind fills in where the system lacks, and when you're in the mood for music, just about anything would do. I use the stereo in my rustbucket car too, and it's good enough when I want to listen to something, even though technically it's pretty bad. I know of other audiophiles and industry professionals who are more or less in the same boat. It doesn't mean that they can't appreciate the difference, it just means that they're ok with using their imagination to fill in and correct what the rig does wrong.

It doesn't work the other way around - thankfully. A really quality system will put you into the mood to listen regardless if you were in the mood to begin with. Or, at the very least, that's what it should do.

Also, I've pretty much stopped demoing my gear altogether. For one thing, it just looks like you're bragging and showing off some needlessly expensive stuff. Mainly, though, people just don't care. How much would you care for someone to show you their extensive shoe collection, or for someone to go through albums and albums of photos they've taken, while all you really care about is just about anything else? How many times have you sat through some tedious technical explanation about something you don't care about, patiently nodding and pretending to listen to be polite? It's about the same thing to people that don't care about the hobby.

Of course, music is universal, but music appreciation is not. So I've learned not to force it on people and to realize that not everybody shares my enthusiasm. And there's nothing wrong with that.

But, don't let me dampen your spirits (and getting into some spirits sounds pretty good right about now). The point is, don't be surprised and frustrated at a lack of enthusiasm in others.
post #636 of 3818

Originally Posted by catscratch View Post

I dunno, I consider myself if not an audiophile then at the very least a headphone and general audio enthusiast, my rig is pretty near endgame, and I still don't give the back end of a rat about listening to music on subpar systems. I have a pair of old computer speakers at the office, I don't even know what brand or model they are, and they sound like a potential upgrade to a pair of tin cans could be in my future. I don't care. The mind fills in where the system lacks, and when you're in the mood for music, just about anything would do. I use the stereo in my rustbucket car too, and it's good enough when I want to listen to something, even though technically it's pretty bad. I know of other audiophiles and industry professionals who are more or less in the same boat. It doesn't mean that they can't appreciate the difference, it just means that they're ok with using their imagination to fill in and correct what the rig does wrong.

It doesn't work the other way around - thankfully. A really quality system will put you into the mood to listen regardless if you were in the mood to begin with. Or, at the very least, that's what it should do.

+1


Edited by RUMAY408 - 7/18/13 at 2:50pm
post #637 of 3818
Quote:
Originally Posted by Muzeick View Post

The difference is that most people can enjoy music whatever its bit rate, whatever the speakers or earphones and whatever the player. Whereas audiophiles are so uptight sweating the tiniest details and brushstrokes that they miss the beauty of the picture. Confusing the medium with the message.

As I said when you raised this several days ago, I find my love for music enhanced by hearing it on good equipment, I don't sweat details and I don't miss the beauty of the picture. It's like watching a great movie on an iPhone it is still a great movie, but the full impact is best seen in a theater. In music, the best is live but I find that my set up captures a good deal of the impact of the music.
post #638 of 3818
Quote:
Originally Posted by teb1013 View Post


As I said when you raised this several days ago, I find my love for music enhanced by hearing it on good equipment, I don't sweat details and I don't miss the beauty of the picture. It's like watching a great movie on an iPhone it is still a great movie, but the full impact is best seen in a theater. In music, the best is live but I find that my set up captures a good deal of the impact of the music.

That's the way I look at it, like standard TV vs. HDTV.  

post #639 of 3818

What I said isn't about whether people think the equipment is worth it, it's about the fact that people claim to be able to hear no difference whatsoever. Not being interested in spending the money to get it is one thing, but being completely unable to hear a scientifically verifiable, subjectively massive difference between them is clearly a symptom of a huge problem somewhere. All of you talk about how regular equipment is okay, and I agree with you, but this thread, and more importantly this forum, would not be here if you were not able to tell the difference.

 

As far as to where this problem might be, there really aren't a whole lot of places. I mean, you could accuse everyone who isn't able to hear the difference of being physically deaf, but I hardly doubt this is anything but an exception to the rule, and even many people with hearing problems can tell the difference. And think about this; it's not the people who are the most knowledgeable and passionate about music who have a problem noticing. You hardly ever see professional musicians, music critics, recording engineers, mixing engineers, DJs, audiophiles, or producers using sub-par $30 speakers to do their work because a good pair of monitors isn't worth it, unless they're trying to sell you something for much more than it is worth. It's just the general public.

post #640 of 3818
And yet with HDTv it often looks much more fake than normal TV.

Just look at that Hobbit film and it's 48 fps version - just didn't work.

Detail and forensic attention /obsession to and with it is not everything.
post #641 of 3818

And yet you can tell it's fake. The problem is that there are people who can't tell the difference even when it's there and they're being told exactly what it is.

post #642 of 3818
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tus-Chan View Post

What I said isn't about whether people think the equipment is worth it, it's about the fact that people claim to be able to hear no difference whatsoever. Not being interested in spending the money to get it is one thing, but being completely unable to hear a scientifically verifiable, subjectively massive difference between them is clearly a symptom of a huge problem somewhere. All of you talk about how regular equipment is okay, and I agree with you, but this thread, and more importantly this forum, would not be here if you were not able to tell the difference.

As far as to where this problem might be, there really aren't a whole lot of places. I mean, you could accuse everyone who isn't able to hear the difference of being physically deaf, but I hardly doubt this is anything but an exception to the rule, and even many people with hearing problems can tell the difference. And think about this; it's not the people who are the most knowledgeable and passionate about music who have a problem noticing. You hardly ever see professional musicians, music critics, recording engineers, mixing engineers, DJs, audiophiles, or producers using sub-par $30 speakers to do their work because a good pair of monitors isn't worth it, unless they're trying to sell you something for much more than it is worth. It's just the general public.

When you are asking your friends and colleagues to listen to your mad geek gear, they can all physically hear these differences you refer to. But their brains are too busy looking for the exits to bother with your insane attempt to show how great you are.

You do not have better hearing or more finely tuned listening skills than others. It's just that you can't persuade others to do something they don't want to. We are stubborn beasts and we're all the centre of our own universes. You can't barge your way into someone's world and expect to stay long unless they willingly allow you some airspace.

As Stan Laurel said, "You can take a horse to water, but a pencil must be lead"
post #643 of 3818
When you are asking your friends and colleagues to listen to your mad geek gear, they can all physically hear these differences you refer to. But their brains are too busy looking for the exits to bother with your insane attempt to show how great you are.

 

This is rude and snide, but more importantly, it would require there to some sort of conspiracy against me to be uninterested in anything I am interested in or have to say for this to be true. Basically, your post comes with the implication that my interests and life aren't worthy of even being given the time of day to by my friends and family, which I find personally insulting and untrue, despite how gratefully smug the rest of your argument would be if it was true. Finally, sharing my equipment with others isn't an "insane attempt to show how great I am", it's an attempt by me to share my love for something with someone else. If what you are saying is true, then everyone who posted in this thread, and basically anyone who is employed in any creative field whatsoever is a complete narcissist. Watch out, Andy Warhol, displaying your art for sale is arrogant.

 

You do not have better hearing or more finely tuned listening skills than others. 

 

On the contrary, I most likely have much improved listening skills than the average person. Trained listeners, AKA those with audiophile experience, have been scientifically proven to be far better at evaluating music and equipment than the untrained layman. I can even link you to the study if you wish me to.

 

Finally, you assume that all of the people that have weighed in on the matter were forced to make an evaluation on the matter by someone else - many times they are contemptuously skeptical yet curious about gear that someone else owns ("geez, why don't you have Beats?" / "Why do you waste so much money on nothing?"), initiate the situation themselves, and come to the conclusion that there is no difference and the hobby is stupid. The vast majority of the time, this is someone who fits the criteria I listed above, and because they are inexperienced, which also contributes to their inability for reasons listed above.

post #644 of 3818
No insult intended, sorry.
Edited by Muzeick - 7/19/13 at 12:34am
post #645 of 3818
It is human to seek approval from others, so there is nothing wrong in asking others to validate your own decisions. We are all full of self doubt, after all - unless you are a psychopath - and our choices of friends and losers reflects that.

Likewise the growth of Internet forums such as this, to support hobby interests - you can pick any subject under the sun and there'll be a head-fi for it, and doubtless a thread somewhere on it laughing/complaining about how the general public don't understand their hobby.

We are not unique snowflakes. First rule of Audiophilia Club?

There's no conspiracy against you. Nor am I being rude or snide about you. You are no doubt a wonderful person. But we all have limited empathy and altruism. Otherwise we'd give away all we owned to someone more deserving. It's the same with our ability to understand and appreciate others - it marks us out as beautiful evolutionary creatures but it's finite nature also means we are still essentially selfish. Your friends all want to hear about your interests, but only to a degree and they will lie and humour you to avoid insult. They will also use humour to insult you. That's the paradox about friendships.

Anyway, on the subject of the Golden Ears and being able to somehow have enhanced hearing. Well maybe, but I doubt you have it. Most likely you just think you do.

Check out all the experiments proving expert wine tasters are full of rubbish. Can't link properly from this phone but an easy Google will do it.

Same with audiophilia. A whole industry of people peddling miracles, all claiming to know the truth. It's entirely predictable and to be expected, but quite deluded. Want a quick upgrade to surround sound? Next time you put your stereo on at home, cup your hands behind your ears.

You can have that one for free.
Edited by Muzeick - 7/19/13 at 12:51am
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