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Wining about the placebo effect - Page 7

post #91 of 105

This is a very long, technical article about Placebo's doing more than just confusing listener or patient.

 

The Placebo Phenomenon

 

An ingenious researcher finds the real ingredients of “fake” medicine.

 

http://harvardmagazine.com/2013/01/the-placebo-phenomenon

post #92 of 105

If only the brain wasn't such a dick... Then we could just think away pain, reduce our blood pressure, and cure anxiety and depression without partaking in fake drug/treatment testing.

post #93 of 105
Quote:
Originally Posted by chewy4 View Post

If only the brain wasn't such a dick... Then we could just think away pain, reduce our blood pressure, and cure anxiety and depression without partaking in fake drug/treatment testing.
The brain actually has this capability but we aren't shown how to use it. It's a learned skill, not a natural ability. I know someone who can "think" away a severe headache or shoulder pain, and she's not all that proficient at the skill. But it does show the concept of making your own reality is powerful and related to placebo.

"That which you think becomes your world." -Richard Matheson
post #94 of 105
Quote:
Originally Posted by jaddie View Post


The brain actually has this capability but we aren't shown how to use it. It's a learned skill, not a natural ability. I know someone who can "think" away a severe headache or shoulder pain, and she's not all that proficient at the skill. But it does show the concept of making your own reality is powerful and related to placebo.

"That which you think becomes your world." -Richard Matheson

The buddhist philosophy is basically based on learning how to do this... controlling your mind rather than let your mind control you.

 

But I suck at it. I can do the opposite though, one time I had a headache for two months straight with no known cause.

post #95 of 105
Quote:
Originally Posted by Speedskater View Post

This is a very long, technical article about Placebo's doing more than just confusing listener or patient.

 

The Placebo Phenomenon

 

An ingenious researcher finds the real ingredients of “fake” medicine.

 

http://harvardmagazine.com/2013/01/the-placebo-phenomenon

That was a good read..

 

 

Quote:
The experiment, among the first to tease apart the components of placebo response, shows that the methods of placebo administration are as important as the administration itself, he explains. It’s valuable insight for any caregiver: patients’ perceptions matter, and the ways physicians frame perceptions can have significant effects on their patients’ health.
post #96 of 105
Ever get prescribed Obecalp? Insurance even covers it. smily_headphones1.gif
post #97 of 105
Quote:
Originally Posted by GrindingThud View Post

Ever get prescribed Obecalp? Insurance even covers it. smily_headphones1.gif

A prescription placebo.  And that's the kind of world we live in. I wonder how much testing it took to get that one through the FDA.  "Low side-effect, non-addictive placebo".  How do you test it?  Give a rat enough to kill it?  What do you tell a lab rat to test its efficacy?  "You'll experience some tingling in your tail, and your whiskers will grow longer."  

 

Ok, left that door wide open for someone else to get banned....

post #98 of 105
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by GrindingThud View Post

Ever get prescribed Obecalp? Insurance even covers it. smily_headphones1.gif

 

That's almost as good a brand name as Schiit!

post #99 of 105
Quote:
Originally Posted by Speedskater View Post

This is a very long, technical article about Placebo's doing more than just confusing listener or patient.

 

The Placebo Phenomenon

 

An ingenious researcher finds the real ingredients of “fake” medicine.

 

http://harvardmagazine.com/2013/01/the-placebo-phenomenon

 

Thanks.  That wasn't actually too technical though, which may be a good thing.

 

The most interesting part to me, and something with a deep implication, was the suggestion that a gene is largely responsible for one's susceptibility to placebo effects.  Or at least, there is a correlation.

 

The actual paper seems to be this one, relating to this well-studied enzyme.  Some key graphs are there.  Error bars are rather large; but I guess that's how these things go for medical trials, especially where nobody is "supposed" to be getting better.

post #100 of 105

^ very interesting citation.  That enzyme regulates degradation of dopamine and catecholamines, which are neurotransmitters involved in pleasure and mood, respectively.  i.e. increased action of the former is the basis of reward and is the target for all drugs of abuse, increased release of the latter is mechanism for antidepressants.  So altered regulation of mood and reward makes people susceptible to inconsistent experience of constant stimuli..

post #101 of 105
Quote:
Originally Posted by scuttle View Post

 

I didn't know about Tuscan milk, but I was going to mention Scotch. Although interestingly the reviews I've seen of many of the expensive variants of Aardbeg, my own favourite, say it's not as great as the "cheap" ($70 a bottle) stuff. And coffee - Blue Mountain is horribly expensive.

I had a craving for some scotch and was deciding between random bottles, and I noticed Aardbeg(10 year) which I remembered being mentioned here so I gave it a shot.

 

I've got to say it is downright fantastic. It is very peaty like the other mid ranged scotch I've tried which I really like. But one thing that I liked that is also very interesting in this topic is that it comes with a booklet of very complicated descriptions of their scotches. 

 

Before I read this booklet, it had mostly a nice rich, smokey peat flavor with some sweetness to it. A lot of subtleties but nothing I could particularly pick out as I'm no pro. But once I read the description it suddenly had an explosion of crackling peat, tangy lemon and lime juice, black pepper and sizzling cinnamon-spiced toffee. A wave of brine, infused with sweet buttermilk, ripe bananas and currants. Smoke wells up bringing warm creamy cappuccino and toasted marshmallows. Dry espresso, liquorice root and tarry smoke develop. The flavor was so complex and engrossing that I could barely pay attention to the episode of Star Trek: NG that I was watching since I was too busy picking out all the flavors.

 

So then I tried something else: reading the description of their next scotch and trying to pick out those flavors. It was a much simpler description actually, basically fruit cake, barbecued and honey roasted food(they really did just say "food" in the description), and olives.... and I actually could taste these things if I really tried. 


It really makes me wonder if this stuff is just being made up for the most part. I mean obviously they aren't brewing scotch with marshmallows... I wonder if it just has a complex enough taste that you can imagine whatever the hell you want out of it if you try hard enough. 

 

Nonetheless, I do enjoy it. I love drinking something and then reading a sophisticated description of it to totally change my perspective, placebo or not.

post #102 of 105
Next time you drive by a stinking flattened skunk in the road think of a warm cup of Starbucks coffee......amazing thing the brain is, really.
Quote:
Originally Posted by chewy4 View Post

I had a craving for some scotch and was deciding between random bottles, and I noticed Aardbeg(10 year) which I remembered being mentioned here so I gave it a shot.

I've got to say it is downright fantastic. It is very peaty like the other mid ranged scotch I've tried which I really like. But one thing that I liked that is also very interesting in this topic is that it comes with a booklet of very complicated descriptions of their scotches. 

Before I read this booklet, it had mostly a nice rich, smokey peat flavor with some sweetness to it. A lot of subtleties but nothing I could particularly pick out as I'm no pro. But once I read the description it suddenly had an explosion of crackling peat, tangy lemon and lime juice, black pepper and sizzling cinnamon-spiced toffee. A wave of brine, infused with sweet buttermilk, ripe bananas and currants. Smoke wells up bringing warm creamy cappuccino and toasted marshmallows. Dry espresso, liquorice root and tarry smoke develop. The flavor was so complex and engrossing that I could barely pay attention to the episode of Star Trek: NG that I was watching since I was too busy picking out all the flavors.


So then I tried something else: reading the description of their next scotch and trying to pick out those flavors. It was a much simpler description actually, basically fruit cake, barbecued and honey roasted food(they really did just say "food" in the description), and olives.... and I actually could taste these things if I really tried. 


It really makes me wonder if this stuff is just being made up for the most part. I mean obviously they aren't brewing scotch with marshmallows... I wonder if it just has a complex enough taste that you can imagine whatever the hell you want out of it if you try hard enough. 

Nonetheless, I do enjoy it. I love drinking something and then reading a sophisticated description of it to totally change my perspective, placebo or not.
post #103 of 105
Quote:
Originally Posted by GrindingThud View Post

Next time you drive by a stinking flattened skunk in the road think of a warm cup of Starbucks coffee......amazing thing the brain is, really.

My habits in high school already put a positive light on that kind of smell. Skunk doesn't smell bad to me anymore.

 

An amazing thing indeed...

post #104 of 105
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by chewy4 View Post

I had a craving for some scotch and was deciding between random bottles, and I noticed Aardbeg(10 year) which I remembered being mentioned here so I gave it a shot.

 

I've got to say it is downright fantastic. It is very peaty like the other mid ranged scotch I've tried which I really like. But one thing that I liked that is also very interesting in this topic is that it comes with a booklet of very complicated descriptions of their scotches. 

 

Before I read this booklet, it had mostly a nice rich, smokey peat flavor with some sweetness to it. A lot of subtleties but nothing I could particularly pick out as I'm no pro. But once I read the description it suddenly had an explosion of crackling peat, tangy lemon and lime juice, black pepper and sizzling cinnamon-spiced toffee. A wave of brine, infused with sweet buttermilk, ripe bananas and currants. Smoke wells up bringing warm creamy cappuccino and toasted marshmallows. Dry espresso, liquorice root and tarry smoke develop. The flavor was so complex and engrossing that I could barely pay attention to the episode of Star Trek: NG that I was watching since I was too busy picking out all the flavors.

 

So then I tried something else: reading the description of their next scotch and trying to pick out those flavors. It was a much simpler description actually, basically fruit cake, barbecued and honey roasted food(they really did just say "food" in the description), and olives.... and I actually could taste these things if I really tried. 


It really makes me wonder if this stuff is just being made up for the most part. I mean obviously they aren't brewing scotch with marshmallows... I wonder if it just has a complex enough taste that you can imagine whatever the hell you want out of it if you try hard enough. 

 

Nonetheless, I do enjoy it. I love drinking something and then reading a sophisticated description of it to totally change my perspective, placebo or not.

 

I'm sure that I could recognize Aardbeg in a blind tasting against standard Scotches. But pick out one variety of it from another? I'm doubtful. Those metaphorical descriptions are very imprecise, and I suspect they can be made to fit every bottle Aardbeg has ever made. I think  that you are right the flavour is complex enough that it overwhelms the normal range of taste - it probably activates almost every damn taste receptor at once and if you concentrate then you can pick up at least hints of almost anything. 

 

That said, they are still not as bad as standard audiophile bs.

 

Anyway, my other suggestion would be a bottle of Pusser's rum - pretty much the Aardbeg of the rum world and an entirely different beast to Bacardi et al. You'll probably need to add water - anywhere from 30% to 150% of the amount of rum in your glass depending on whether you want the drink to be more like brandy or port. (Without some cutting you probably won't get the complex notes.) Like Aardbeg it is made in very old wooden stills and the effect is freaky and delicious. (And the worst case with Pusser's if you hate it you use it for cocktails or grog - rum, cane sugar dissolved in boiling water, lime juice.)

post #105 of 105
Quote:
Originally Posted by scuttle View Post

 

I'm sure that I could recognize Aardbeg in a blind tasting against standard Scotches. But pick out one variety of it from another? I'm doubtful. Those metaphorical descriptions are very imprecise, and I suspect they can be made to fit every bottle Aardbeg has ever made. I think  that you are right the flavour is complex enough that it overwhelms the normal range of taste - it probably activates almost every damn taste receptor at once and if you concentrate then you can pick up at least hints of almost anything. 

 

That said, they are still not as bad as standard audiophile bs.

 

Anyway, my other suggestion would be a bottle of Pusser's rum - pretty much the Aardbeg of the rum world and an entirely different beast to Bacardi et al. You'll probably need to add water - anywhere from 30% to 150% of the amount of rum in your glass depending on whether you want the drink to be more like brandy or port. (Without some cutting you probably won't get the complex notes.) Like Aardbeg it is made in very old wooden stills and the effect is freaky and delicious. (And the worst case with Pusser's if you hate it you use it for cocktails or grog - rum, cane sugar dissolved in boiling water, lime juice.)

Oh yeah, it is a totally different scotch than most. It's got that in your face peat taste to it. But I believe someone could have swapped my glass with the next up on the Aardbeg line and I wouldn't have noticed(it came with a 50ml bottle of it, no drastic difference IMO). 

 

I think it's similar to audiophile BS, but not as bad because it's not about something as straightforward and provable as sound reproduction.

 

I do like rum but I haven't tried anything fancy. I might have to give that stuff a shot.

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