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Wining about the placebo effect - Page 6

post #76 of 105

Scent based foods are even more laughable than audio for placebo effects.
 

Wine experts strike me as being worse than high end cable sellers IMO. Nobody would debate the difference between a high end drink of any other type in terms of quality such as beer or milk.....but only in wine do you see the crazy obscene prices and prestige.


Edited by ukon16 - 2/21/13 at 7:32pm
post #77 of 105
Quote:
Originally Posted by ukon16 View Post

Scent based foods are even more laughable than audio for placebo effects.
 

Wine experts strike me as being worse than high end cable sellers IMO. Nobody would debate the difference between a high end drink of any other type in terms of quality such as beer or milk.....but only in wine do you see the crazy obscene prices and prestige.

Well you do see it in beer, granted even the high end stuff is cheap compared to other alcoholic beverage. Most expensive I've seen a beer is around $85 for a six pack of Westvleteren 12, which is regarded as the best beer in the world by many. 

 

But you see that a ton in scotch. Scotch can get ridiculously expensive. 

 

I also recently found out that balsamic vinegar is like that too which had me scratching my head.

 

Oh, and I forgot to mention Tuscan Whole Milk: http://www.amazon.com/review/R3K9PWS2J0S7AK/ref=cm_cr_pr_cmt?ie=UTF8&ASIN=B00032G1S0&linkCode=&nodeID=&tag=#wasThisHelpful

biggrin.gif


Edited by chewy4 - 2/21/13 at 8:10pm
post #78 of 105

Sensory processing is inductive and pragmatic in nature.  It's inductive in the sense that inputs to sensory cortex from within the brain outnumber inputs from sense organs (cochlea, skin, eyes, olfactory epithelium) 10 to 1 and the brain constructs experience by the integration of information from multiple senses and internal feedback from memories & expectations (pdf).  It's pragmatic in the sense that sensory distinctions are about survival and organized by behavioral decisions.  For example, taste is divided into 5 categories because our body needs to classify foods into things that poison us, provide sugar, salt or protein.  It's our particular physiology, not error or placebo.  There is very little objective about it.

 

 

Nothing to judge people over, it's just how we are made.

post #79 of 105
Quote:
Originally Posted by chewy4 View Post

Well you do see it in beer, granted even the high end stuff is cheap compared to other alcoholic beverage. Most expensive I've seen a beer is around $85 for a six pack of Westvleteren 12, which is regarded as the best beer in the world by many. 

 

But you see that a ton in scotch. Scotch can get ridiculously expensive. 

 

I also recently found out that balsamic vinegar is like that too which had me scratching my head.

 

Oh, and I forgot to mention Tuscan Whole Milk: http://www.amazon.com/review/R3K9PWS2J0S7AK/ref=cm_cr_pr_cmt?ie=UTF8&ASIN=B00032G1S0&linkCode=&nodeID=&tag=#wasThisHelpful

biggrin.gif

 

Tuscan milk is god.

High end scotch proves old men like blowing money.....I like nicer alcohol but It's made to get you crunked not "taste smooth and joyous".

 

However, I once was invited to try a Chinese dude's "moonshine" baiju recipe he recently created in a small, remote tibetan border town at 1 am in the morning(he completed his masterpiece and ran to the local hotel/hostel to share it). 

 

For garage Baiju....jesus christ....the greatest acohol I EVER tasted and strongest(near everclear levels). It was lemonade flavor...arguably the best lemonade I ever tasted which masked the insane proof level better than any cocktail I tried. The sour of the lemon perfectly balanced the bite of the alcohol so that it felt mildly bitter in a devilish way.

 

So it is possible to reach an alcohol Nirvanna but I've yet to taste any drink(microbrewery, luxury level, home made, mass market, etc.) that came even remotely close. A rare 11/10...almost Tuscan level.

post #80 of 105
Quote:
Originally Posted by eucariote View Post
 
Nothing to judge people over, it's just how we are made.

 

Quite so. The problem is that some people just can't come to terms with that. Instead they prefer to believe that their subjective perceptions are an accurate and unerring reflection of the objective reality.

 

se

post #81 of 105
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by chewy4 View Post

Well you do see it in beer, granted even the high end stuff is cheap compared to other alcoholic beverage. Most expensive I've seen a beer is around $85 for a six pack of Westvleteren 12, which is regarded as the best beer in the world by many. 

 

But you see that a ton in scotch. Scotch can get ridiculously expensive. 

 

I also recently found out that balsamic vinegar is like that too which had me scratching my head.

 

Oh, and I forgot to mention Tuscan Whole Milk: http://www.amazon.com/review/R3K9PWS2J0S7AK/ref=cm_cr_pr_cmt?ie=UTF8&ASIN=B00032G1S0&linkCode=&nodeID=&tag=#wasThisHelpful

biggrin.gif

 

I didn't know about Tuscan milk, but I was going to mention Scotch. Although interestingly the reviews I've seen of many of the expensive variants of Aardbeg, my own favourite, say it's not as great as the "cheap" ($70 a bottle) stuff. And coffee - Blue Mountain is horribly expensive.

post #82 of 105
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by ukon16 View Post

For garage Baiju....jesus christ....the greatest acohol I EVER tasted and strongest(near everclear levels). It was lemonade flavor...arguably the best lemonade I ever tasted which masked the insane proof level better than any cocktail I tried. The sour of the lemon perfectly balanced the bite of the alcohol so that it felt mildly bitter in a devilish way.

 

So it is possible to reach an alcohol Nirvanna but I've yet to taste any drink(microbrewery, luxury level, home made, mass market, etc.) that came even remotely close. A rare 11/10...almost Tuscan level.

 

That does sound very good - I do like lemon vodka. The best I've tasted is Pusser's Rum. I have to drink it with some added water because otherwise it is just too damn much. It's brewed in wooden stills a couple of centuries old - it's tradtional Royal Naval rum - and the chemicals formed in this time are supposed to give it a more complex taste. I also got a weird and high off it - instead of feeling merely dozy I felt rather cheerful and extra confident. Probably exactly what you'd want to feel before boarding a pair of French frigates.

 

Of course, I have read every Jack Aubrey novel - plus Mr Midshipman Easy - so there is no way that the placebo effect can be ruled out in this one! But Pusser's does taste very good, at least if you like the idea of alcohol that tastes like raisins.

post #83 of 105

I am yet to try any true high end liquor. I bought a $70 bottle of scotch once and my brother, dad, and a friend of mine didn't even like it compared to other cheaper scotch they tried(like JW black). It was peat smoked though so it had a pretty radically different taste to it than most normal scotch. And my dad changed his mind about not liking it since he drank over half the damn bottle.

 

A lot of the times the higher end stuff has justification for why it costs so much (barrel aged for half a century, mead made from bees that are made sure to only pollinate once specific flower,uses purified water from lake Minnetonka etc...) but that doesn't mean it makes it taste that much better to the consumer. But it's still enjoyable keeping that stuff in mind when drinking something and pretending it makes the drink that much better. Because if you believe it does, it does to you.

post #84 of 105
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by chewy4 View Post

I am yet to try any true high end liquor. I bought a $70 bottle of scotch once and my brother, dad, and a friend of mine didn't even like it compared to other cheaper scotch they tried(like JW black). It was peat smoked though so it had a pretty radically different taste to it than most normal scotch. And my dad changed his mind about not liking it since he drank over half the damn bottle.

 

A lot of the times the higher end stuff has justification for why it costs so much (barrel aged for half a century, mead made from bees that are made sure to only pollinate once specific flower,uses purified water from lake Minnetonka etc...) but that doesn't mean it makes it taste that much better to the consumer. But it's still enjoyable keeping that stuff in mind when drinking something and pretending it makes the drink that much better. Because if you believe it does, it does to you.

 

There are definitely cheaper Whiskies I prefer to more expensive ones - it puzzles me that anyone will pay for Glenmorangie (which I'm almost certain has changed flavour in the last few years, much for the worse) when Jamisons is cheaper. A good recommendation for a "between" whiskey at the moment would be Monkey Shoulder: http://www.masterofmalt.com/whiskies/monkey-shoulder-blended-scotch-whisky/ Less than $40 a bottle, "accessible" (i.e. doesn't taste like has been made from seaweed) but much interesting than a standard whiskey.

 

And this boutique gin is pretty amazing - http://www.masterofmalt.com/gin/hendricks-gin/?srh=1 - especially with cucumber instead of the usual lemon. It's an interesting case because no one mistakes it for a normal gin in blind testing - people might love it or hate it, but it definitely tastes different.

post #85 of 105
Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve Eddy View Post

 

Quite so. The problem is that some people just can't come to terms with that. Instead they prefer to believe that their subjective perceptions are an accurate and unerring reflection of the objective reality.

 

se

Steve, your posts are like skirts. So short to keep us interested, yet long enough to cover the subject.

post #86 of 105
I reckon I'm addicted to placebos. I want to give them up, but don't think it will make any real difference.
post #87 of 105
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by DudeMyCans View Post

I reckon I'm addicted to placebos. I want to give them up, but don't think it will make any real difference.

 

I thought of giving up Placebo, but then I thought "They're sort of like if the New York Dolls had heard the Pixies; what's not to like?" So I didn't.

post #88 of 105
Quote:
Originally Posted by scuttle View Post

 

I thought of giving up Placebo, but then I thought "They're sort of like if the New York Dolls had heard the Pixies; what's not to like?" So I didn't.

I took an overdose of Placebos once.  Thought I was going to die, but it was all in my head.

post #89 of 105
Quote:
Originally Posted by penmarker View Post

Steve, your posts are like skirts. So short to keep us interested, yet long enough to cover the subject.

 

HA! Thank you for the kind and clever words.

 

se

post #90 of 105
Quote:
Originally Posted by jaddie View Post

I took an overdose of Placebos once.  Thought I was going to die, but it was all in my head.

 

Another good one!

 

Back in my youth when working as a busboy/dish washer at a small restaurant, one of my co-workers had some fun with a new kid who'd just started working there. It began with "Hey man, want to buy some placebos?" The kid didn't know what a placebo was so you can imagine how it went from there. biggrin.gif

 

se

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