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post #31 of 1989
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jason Stoddard 
 
Hey all,
 
Sorry for the delay in shipping Asgard 2. While we had plenty of boards last week, we weren't happy with the level of problems we were seeing--despite the fact the board really didn't change from prototype to production. 
 
Long story short, after a relatively sleep-deprived weekend, we've resolved the problems (a combination of some parts substitutions that had some unexpected effects, bad grounding through the chassis--the new anodizing is really tough--and a couple of different procedures at the PCB assembly house), we're good. 
 
Asgard 2s will ship on Monday in limited quantities, followed throughout the week with more and more as we come up to speed. I still expect most backorders to be cleared by the end of this week.
 
Someday I'm gonna make a Monopoly-style board game called "The Path to Production, AKA 'U R Boned!'"
 
Apologies again for the delay.
 
All the best,
Jason
post #32 of 1989

Thanks Radioking59.

post #33 of 1989

You know, Schiit provides more info than plenty of other manufacturers (though not as much as I'd like, but nobody does), and I like the gain switch and all, but... just to be that guy...

 

omg first Schiit used an op amp for the output of the Modi, and now they're using global (? or what is the interpretation of "overall" otherwise?) feedback, at least for the low gain!  omg head explode.  But I thought they said they liked using ___ and ____, and talked up how product X and Y and Z were so awesome because ___ and not using ___.  Okay, seriously, it's well-established that low-moderate amounts of feedback, like 12 dB or so, often can reduce overall distortion, but increase higher-order distortion.  Isn't this the crux of the argument against feedback?—whereupon others note that with topologies where you can get much higher levels of feedback, all distortion including higher-order are lower.  And then you run in circles in arguments around the whole meter-reader ideology thing.

 

Anyway, the point is that the low-gain mode is tainted by the devil hisself!

 

Okay, to be fair, distortion levels prior to feedback are probably fairly but not astronomically low to begin with, so any crud added in higher harmonics should be very low, probably no real concern at all.  I mean, I hope so, considering how much power is being used for that class A biasing.

post #34 of 1989

deleted


Edited by zazex - 2/18/13 at 9:16pm
post #35 of 1989
Quote:
Originally Posted by mikeaj View Post

You know, Schiit provides more info than plenty of other manufacturers (though not as much as I'd like, but nobody does), and I like the gain switch and all, but... just to be that guy...

 

omg first Schiit used an op amp for the output of the Modi, and now they're using global (? or what is the interpretation of "overall" otherwise?) feedback, at least for the low gain!  omg head explode.  But I thought they said they liked using ___ and ____, and talked up how product X and Y and Z were so awesome because ___ and not using ___.  Okay, seriously, it's well-established that low-moderate amounts of feedback, like 12 dB or so, often can reduce overall distortion, but increase higher-order distortion.  Isn't this the crux of the argument against feedback?—whereupon others note that with topologies where you can get much higher levels of feedback, all distortion including higher-order are lower.  And then you run in circles in arguments around the whole meter-reader ideology thing.

 

Anyway, the point is that the low-gain mode is tainted by the devil hisself!

 

Okay, to be fair, distortion levels prior to feedback are probably fairly but not astronomically low to begin with, so any crud added in higher harmonics should be very low, probably no real concern at all.  I mean, I hope so, considering how much power is being used for that class A biasing.

You know, for someone who doesn't like our approach, you seem to have a fascination with us. To which I say, "Come to the dark side! We have cookies!"

 

First, to answer your assertion, while we have said we like doing certain things, we have never crapped on any other approach to audio design, from any other manufacturer or designer. And we have been using global feedback in the Bifrost since, well, forever. And Gungnir. It's not a new thing for us. And we have never said feedback is the "Devil hisself."

 

And, distortion before feedback is what we quote on the site--due to the high rails and cascode design, the Asgard 2 has a highly linear gain stage. After feedback, it's even lower. 

post #36 of 1989

Hey, does anyone know if there are any dealers in the North (Sweden)?
Would love to listen to one asgard2 without having to pay duty ...

post #37 of 1989
Schiiiiiiit.
I got 3 options to spend my money on.

Buy a Schiit Modi + Asgard 2.
Buy an iPhone 5.
Buy a GTX 670.

WHY IS IT SO HARD TO CHOOSE

/irrelevantpost
post #38 of 1989

If you're OCD like I am, you'll notice the anodizing on the Modi does not match it on the Asgard 2.

post #39 of 1989
I'll have the DAC on top of the computer case. Nowhere near my line of sight. :P
post #40 of 1989
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jason Stoddard View Post

You know, for someone who doesn't like our approach, you seem to have a fascination with us. To which I say, "Come to the dark side! We have cookies!"

 

First, to answer your assertion, while we have said we like doing certain things, we have never crapped on any other approach to audio design, from any other manufacturer or designer. And we have been using global feedback in the Bifrost since, well, forever. And Gungnir. It's not a new thing for us. And we have never said feedback is the "Devil hisself."

 

And, distortion before feedback is what we quote on the site--due to the high rails and cascode design, the Asgard 2 has a highly linear gain stage. After feedback, it's even lower. 

 

I stand corrected on the factual inaccuracies, my bad.  Of course there were some facetious embellishments that I hope nobody took seriously.

 

 

Mostly I'm just amused and impressed that you bother responding to armchair-designer backseat-driver peanut gallery members (like me!) who are just semi-trolling for some kicks and stirring up any discussion.  I'm always interested in designers talking about their designs.  It's good for manufacturers to have a real presence.  For this point, +1.

 

Before cookies, I might need to dust off some electronics texts, not that I really learned much of that in the first place...

post #41 of 1989
Quote:
Originally Posted by mikeaj View Post

 

I stand corrected on the factual inaccuracies, my bad.  Of course there were some facetious embellishments that I hope nobody took seriously.

 

 

Mostly I'm just amused and impressed that you bother responding to armchair-designer backseat-driver peanut gallery members (like me!) who are just semi-trolling for some kicks and stirring up any discussion.  I'm always interested in designers talking about their designs.  It's good for manufacturers to have a real presence.  For this point, +1.

 

Before cookies, I might need to dust off some electronics texts, not that I really learned much of that in the first place...

 

Gotcha.

 

Bottom line, horses for courses. There is no one single answer for every audio design question, and there are no *absolutely right* answers. There are only choices.

 

For example, for I/V conversion, the example I like to use is a discrete low-impedance amplifier stage with input at the emitters (or sources, pick your poison) vs the most mondo badass op-amp on the planet. The discrete stage (with feedback or error-correction to lower the input impedance even further) will stomp the op-amp into the ground, any way you want to measure. The DAC will be happier, because it's seeing the closest thing to a dead short it can see. Of course, we're not currently using current-out DACs, so this is a bit of a canard. 

 

Personally, I like the freedom to design that comes with headphone amps. For most headphone loads that don't require much power, we can use highly inefficient Class-A topologies, tubes, and lots of other things that aren't gonna fly in a speaker amp. Speaker amps are fundamentally more constrained, because you're focused on converting power efficiently and managing power supply modulation, and you're a lot less worried about absolute noise performance. Which means a whole lot of different choices. 

 

And you shouldn't be surprised to see us use a lot of different answers in our designs. For Magni, where efficiency is important, we chose a pretty classic Class AB topology with global feedback. For Modi, an op-amp. For Bifrost and Gungnir, overall-feedback discrete designs. For Asgard 2, a very elaborate, high-voltage power supply, combined with a cascode and class-A MOSFET output. For Valhalla, all tubes (with their inherent limitations), for Lyr, a tube hybrid with a dynamically adjusting output stage, so it could put out a lot more power than Asgard without melting. For Mjolnir, a circlotron-style output stage that eliminates the need to match N and P-channel MOSFETs and dramatically reduces the number of parts you need for a balanced design--at the cost of balanced-only. In the future, when we start moving into speaker amps, you're going to find both some radical approaches, and some more traditional ones, usually based on the target price.

 

Are any of these the right choices? That depends on your point of view, and what you're looking for. In the end, if you're looking for made-in-USA, inexpensive products from an iconoclastic company with a sense of humor, then, well, the choice is pretty clear.

post #42 of 1989
Quote:

Originally Posted by Jason Stoddard View Post

 

In the future, when we start moving into speaker amps, you're going to find both some radical approaches, and some more traditional ones, usually based on the target price.

 

 

 

post #43 of 1989
Quote:
Originally Posted by hp300plus View Post

 

 

 

Is that a LOLschiit? Or a LOLkid?

 

Either way, rolling...

post #44 of 1989
Quote:
Originally Posted by hodgjy View Post

If you're OCD like I am, you'll notice the anodizing on the Modi does not match it on the Asgard 2.

 

That's because the case of the Asgard 2 is brushed aluminum and the Modi/Magni are powdercoated steel.

post #45 of 1989
I will sell blood and semen if I have to; whatever it takes my to get my hands on a Schiit integrated amp. While you're at it, go ahead and design a phono preamp so I can have Schiit stack for all of my stereo needs. I'll give you dibs on my body fluids, if it sweetens the deal for you.
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