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Same old Schiit? Um, no. Welcome to Asgard 2! - Page 3

post #31 of 343
2/7/13 at 3:42pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by DemonFox View Post

Darn... Oh well I guess I'll just have to do the little M&M Schiit stack instead. Any reason why you guys don't like combo's or DAC's with Tube's? Just curious...

 

On combos, the Magni/Modi FAQ is your friend: schiit.com/faq/about-magni/

 

I want a combined DAC/amp! Why didn’t you put a DAC in here?

We did. It’s just in a different chassis and costs another $99. It’s called “Modi.” Stack the two and tell yourself it’s a combined DAC/Amp for $198.
 
What’s your problem with combined DAC/Amps? Why can’t you put them in the same box?
Call us old-fashioned, but we don’t like multi-megahertz digital noise cruising around in the same chassis as sensitive analog amplification components. Nor do we like the planned obsolescence of a perfectly good amp when digital technology moves on. Let’s face it, you’ll probably be changing the DAC before the amp.
 
On DACs with tubes? There's no reason for a tube stage in a DAC, in our opinion. There is zero benefit to it, either in terms of D/A converters that require I/V conversion, or as a gain stage following a voltage-out DAC. Of course, there are plenty of people who will argue with us.
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post #32 of 343
2/7/13 at 4:11pm

Jason did not think he'd be thrown in the ring so soon after a new product I bet

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post #33 of 343
2/7/13 at 4:25pm
Quote:
"Asgard 2 has a high-voltage, cascoded gain stage very similar to Mjolnir"

Does that mean Asgard 2 loves the big ohms headphones more than ever before?

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post #34 of 343
2/7/13 at 4:56pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jason Stoddard View Post

None planned at the moment.

 

It's just that Magni's performance was (ahem) uncomfortably close to the Asgard. So we decided to make an Asgard 2 with performance that's uncomfortably close to a Mjolnir (within its output limitations, of course, and in our opinion, your mileage may vary, you may disagree entirely, all amps sound the same, blah blah woof woof.)

 

Jason,

 

could you explain to myself and the other new head-fier's how this can be possible when the power output numbers are significantly higher on the Mjolnir? I'm interested in upgrading my Magni and am looking at this new option. 

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post #35 of 343
2/7/13 at 5:11pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by scizzro View Post

 

Jason,

 

could you explain to myself and the other new head-fier's how this can be possible when the power output numbers are significantly higher on the Mjolnir? I'm interested in upgrading my Magni and am looking at this new option. 

 

(within its output limitations, of course)--I believe we said it there. Asgard 2 won't do 8W, so you probably won't be using it to run HE-6s...but it is a very good sounding amp. 

 

(of course, we may be insane--we'll see what you guys say soon, and what the reviewers say in a few weeks)


Edited by Jason Stoddard - 2/7/13 at 5:14pm
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post #36 of 343
2/7/13 at 5:19pm

popcorn.gif

 

"patience is a virtue"...repeat one hundred times. (my mantra until I get a shipping notice)...blink.gif

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post #37 of 343
2/7/13 at 5:31pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rem0o View Post

Does that mean Asgard 2 loves the big ohms headphones more than ever before?

 

Oops, missed this one.

 

I'll skip to huge technical explanation, but--no, wait, let's do it.

 

Bottom line: there are really three basic ways to reduce distortion:

 

1. Feedback--or, say, error correction, which is technically not feedback, it has an entirely different s-domain description, but let's lump them together for brevity.

2. More complex topologies which allow the active devices to have a more linear area of operation.

3. Running the active devices in a small part of their linear area of operation.

 

Asgard 2 uses #2 and #3--cascode topology, and much higher voltage rails (80V, as opposed to Asgard 1's 32V rails) to reduce distortion. It also uses a small amount of feedback in the low gain mode. So, distortion and output impedance are even lower in the low-gain mode (0.005%-ish and 0.6 ohms--ish).

 

Now, this all has nothing to do with driving high-impedance headphones, which typically want lots of voltage.

 

But, to get to the point with a relevant answer: Yes, Asgard 2 has significantly higher voltage output capability into high impedances. Asgard topped out at about 20V p-p. Asgard 2 tops out at about 30V p-p, much like a Valhalla. The only reason it doesn't have higher output power into low impedances is that its maximum output is set by the amount of current flowing in the Class-A output stage, which is fixed by a current source.

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post #38 of 343
2/7/13 at 6:55pm

So if I understand correctly, Sennheiser/Beyer guys who don't like tubes should be happy with the Asgard 2?


Edited by Rem0o - 2/7/13 at 6:58pm
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post #39 of 343
2/7/13 at 7:27pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jason Stoddard View Post

 

On combos, the Magni/Modi FAQ is your friend: schiit.com/faq/about-magni/

 

I want a combined DAC/amp! Why didn’t you put a DAC in here?

We did. It’s just in a different chassis and costs another $99. It’s called “Modi.” Stack the two and tell yourself it’s a combined DAC/Amp for $198.
 
What’s your problem with combined DAC/Amps? Why can’t you put them in the same box?
Call us old-fashioned, but we don’t like multi-megahertz digital noise cruising around in the same chassis as sensitive analog amplification components. Nor do we like the planned obsolescence of a perfectly good amp when digital technology moves on. Let’s face it, you’ll probably be changing the DAC before the amp.
 
On DACs with tubes? There's no reason for a tube stage in a DAC, in our opinion. There is zero benefit to it, either in terms of D/A converters that require I/V conversion, or as a gain stage following a voltage-out DAC. Of course, there are plenty of people who will argue with us.

 

Great info thank you

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post #40 of 343
2/8/13 at 12:12am

Schiit just got real. 

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post #41 of 343
2/8/13 at 2:11am
Bookmark.....
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post #42 of 343
2/8/13 at 6:09am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rem0o View Post

So if I understand correctly, Sennheiser/Beyer guys who don't like tubes should be happy with the Asgard 2?

 

Considering how good the first Asgard was with Sennheisers I'm sure this one will be excellent as well. And yes, unless you want tubes or to go balanced this would be the one to get.


Edited by Defiant00 - 2/8/13 at 6:11am
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post #43 of 343
2/8/13 at 7:01am

I need another amp, let alone another Asgard, like a need a hole in the head.  But, as much as I love my Asgard and how it drives my 600 ohm DT990s, I'm looking forward to what the Asgard 2 can do with its higher voltage swing.

 

So, I ordered one today.

 

Surprisingly, my beloved Trafomatic Head One doesn't drive my DT990s as well as the Asgard 1.  Really looking forward to the Asgard 2.  I'll write up a little review once it comes in and I give it a good workout.

 

Now, this is an indication of what such first world problems I have, whether to make the Asgard 1 my bedroom rig or to sell it.  Decisions, decisions.

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post #44 of 343
2/8/13 at 7:19am
So much want, not enough necessity. frown.gif

HNNNNNG

I've always wanted an upgraded Asgard (I even mentioned it probably on the Magni thread), and here it is! I can't believe the wish came through, though a little late for me. Irony being, I also called it the Asgard 2. biggrin.gif

You best believe if I get another amp, it will be this one.
Edited by Mad Lust Envy - 2/8/13 at 7:24am
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post #45 of 343
2/8/13 at 8:19am

With all due caveats about comparing specifications, it seems that even after the Asgard upgrade, Magni remains a compelling offering in the Schiit lineup, particularly based on its distortion performance.

 

The publicly available specifications on the Asgard were more limited than the current amp lineup, as I recall, but looks like Asgard 2 delivers an order of magnitude improvement in THD to 0.008%. But that's still higher than Magni's THD of 0.005%, and Asgard 2 has higher IMD of 0.010%, compared with Magni's 0.007%. Magni's distortion specs are even superior to Mjolnir! 

 

Where Magni comes up short is on SNR and crosstalk. Asgard 2 bests Magni's 100 dB with 102 dB, and Mjolnir delivers 104 dB. Similarly, Magni's crosstalk is -70 dB, Asgard 2 -72 dB, and Mjolnir -75 dB. 

 

Stepping aside of evaluating the practical performance differences of a few thousandths of a percentage of distortion or 2 dB of SNR or crosstalk, it stands to reason that Magni holds its own quite well on the basic specs.

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