Tube rolling - Page 2

Quote:

Originally Posted by eddiek997 

 

Doubters gonna doubt, haters gonna hate. 

And people with no facts or rational argument on their side are going to spout cliches, it  seems.

..Which is like saying that homeopathy is more effective than praying to UFOs.

The unjustified opinions of an arbitrary group of people on the Internet - indeed, in this case a group arguably self-selected for less than average common sense and greater than normal gullibility - are not what I consider "answers".

Quote:

Originally Posted by chewy4 

[Tube rolling] also adds new instruments that weren't there before!

 

That's because tubes talk to the dead! By rolling the right tube you can hear Jimmi Hendrix playing guitar or Bird the sax! You can even hear Kurt Kobain shooting up if your amp is sensitive enough!

Quote:

Originally Posted by scuttle 

 

And people with no facts or rational argument on their side are going to spout cliches, it  seems.

 

 

 

and trollers gonna troll...

Quote:

Originally Posted by eddiek997 

and trollers gonna troll...

I'd say the person going into the sound science forum telling people to stop using science would be considered the troll if you want to go that route. I don't understand why people feel the need to do that; if someone asks for the science behind something telling them not to worry about it and just listen to your opinion on it doesn't really help with that.

Quote:

Originally Posted by chewy4 

I'd say the person going into the sound science forum telling people to stop using science would be considered the troll if you want to go that route. I don't understand why people feel the need to do that; if someone asks for the science behind something telling them not to worry about it and just listen to your opinion on it doesn't really help with that.

Agreed Chewy...

I already pointed the troller to the location of the answers to all his/her/its questions in the link I posted above (Post #9 of this thread).

Furthermore, the sunrise II uses (I think) Russian 6n23p tubes of which their equivalent is 6922. Here is an exhaustive guide (scientiific or not, it's the goto source for tube rolling) for the 6922 genre. http://www.audioasylum.com/scripts/d.pl?audio/faq/joes-tubes.html#6DJ8

Troller doesn't want to believe. Troller doesnt want to learn. Troller just want to troll. Thats what trollers do.

Quote:

Originally Posted by eddiek997 

Agreed Chewy...

You agree that you're a troll? Ok....

The word "troll" does not mean someone who makes your tummy hurt because they do not agree with you. Can I possibly suggest, in the nicest way, that you grow up? As for your previous link: this is the sound SCIENCE forum. Not the "A group of yammerheads on the Internet think it so it must be true" forum. If you want to present scientific arguments - ABX test results, physics, etc - that valve amps have advantages over SS ones for "audiophile" applications, then people will give you a fair hearing. 

You know that theres more to science than theoretics, graphs etc... there's experiments. Roll in some tubes and experiment. Get the answers for yourself if you don't want to believe the results of other peoples experiments.

Oh and the earth is flat and the sun revolves around the earth.
 

Quote:

Originally Posted by eddiek997 

You know that theres more to science than theoretics, graphs etc... there's experiments. Roll in some tubes and experiment. Get the answers for yourself if you don't want to believe the results of other peoples experiments.

 

Oh and the earth is flat and the sun revolves around the earth.
 

Popping in some tubes and using your own hearing which has poor memory and is greatly influenced by mood isn't a very good scientific experiment. Set up some good blind testing conditions and then it'll be good though.

The idea that the Earth is flat and the universe is geocentric comes from subjective observations without knowing the science behind them. It was theory that first detirmined the Earth was round and revolved around the sun.

Quote:

Originally Posted by eddiek997 

You know that theres more to science than theoretics, graphs etc... there's experiments. Roll in some tubes and experiment. Get the answers for yourself if you don't want to believe the results of other peoples experiments.

 

Oh and the earth is flat and the sun revolves around the earth.
 

Yes, well - don't look up, the point just went flying over your head and we wouldn't want you to cut yourself. An ABX test **is** an experiment. Your raw opinion is not - most people are very easily influenced, and tube amp owners are arguably self-selected to be among the most gullible human beings on earth. ABX and other blind tests are designed so that gullibility, peer pressure, bias, susceptibility to marketing and downright stupidity are removed from the equation. 

...You really haven't understood the strange words people have been using in this conversation have you? I have to ask, if you didn't understand what an ABX test is, why didn't you ask? And having being told that people can't distinguish mp3 from CD although they think they can, why do you think their impressions on tube rolling are more accurate?

Quote:

Originally Posted by eddiek997 

I give up. The OP wanted to know if there's anything real in tube rolling. That different tubes have different properties that affect the audio output is beyond doubt.
 

This is true. For example, a bust tube will stop any sound coming out. The question - which you don't seem to be able to understand - is whether a tube rolling can do anything to help provide the supposed advantages of a tube amp over a cheaper, more robust solid state amp. I.e. whether tube rolling can do anything USEFUL. To which the answer is "No. Choosing a poor tube can make an already second rate amp worse, but that's all."

there are more tube headphone amps and solid state headphones amps out there than you can shake a proverbial stick at.

making an assertion either way - that tubes sound better or that SS sounds better - is foolish.

the sound of any amplifier will be the result of its circuit design, signal path, the quality of the components, etc.

why do amps sound different?  signal loss is the number one reason.

you see, not every amp is able to "carry the bag of sand" (the full signal) all the way to the finish line without losing some sand.

period.

now, about tube rolling.

the tube used in the amplifier is a critical part of this job of amplifying the signal without loss.  or without introducing negatives, for that matter.

input tubes, output tubes, power tubes, driver tubes. whatever you want to call them.

it is beyond argument that some tubes are better made than others, and these tubes better fulfill the duty of amplifying the signal while retaining the most information.

some years ago, tubes were made more carefully.  air was depleted fully from the glass enclosure.   pieces were more carefully chosen and crafted.

so, the tube will SOUND better than a modern Russian or Chinese equivalent design.

now, is it practical to buy a cheap headphone amp, and spend more on tubes than the amp?  No.

will the amp sound better?  likely yes.  but impossible to say.

will the amp with its "rolled" tubes sound better than a SS amp of similar $?  once again, impossible to say.

/ thread.  

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheWuss 

there are more tube headphone amps and solid state headphones amps out there than you can shake a proverbial stick at.

 

making an assertion either way - that tubes sound better or that SS sounds better - is foolish.

 

Yes, what you just wrote is certainly extremely foolish. It is certainly impossible to say that EVERY ss amp in the world sounds better than every tube, or that a random ss amp will sound better than a random tube. But who, until now, would have thought these were useful assertions to make, rather than pathetic strawmen? The intelligent question (which you have completely failed to grasp with an awesome mastery of missing the astoundingly obvious) is whether a well designed tube amp can ever offer an advantage over a well design ss amp. To which the answer is easily no, because such are the physics and such are the results of literally thousands of blind test results.

Quote:

Originally Posted by scuttle 

 

The question - which you don't seem to be able to understand - is whether a tube rolling can do anything to help provide the supposed advantages of a tube amp over a cheaper, more robust solid state amp. I.e. whether tube rolling can do anything USEFUL. To which the answer is "No. Choosing a poor tube can make an already second rate amp worse, but that's all."

The question, which you obviously didn't read was this..

"I've recently started looking at the sunrise 2 amp. And have seen mention of tube rolling. What is the science behind this. Does it make a difference to sound or is it as pointless as changing cables?
Cheers"

Your answer is neither helpful nor correct.

Like I said, doubters gonna doubt. Cliche or not, certain tubes are of a better quality than others and therefore capable of amplifying the signal better than others (without unintended coloration or degradation of the original etc). Different tubes affect sound more/less than others. This is a fact.