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How easy is it to put HD600 drivers in the HD650? - Page 3

post #31 of 52

No, only the freqencies (x-axis) is logarithmic. The y-axis is clearly marked in amplitude (db). The 650 is very slightly bassier (only about 2 db).


Edited by devhen - 2/7/13 at 9:16am
post #32 of 52
Thread Starter 

Are those headroom graphs really trustworthy, though? For example, if you compare the 'DT 880' (which is the 250ohm version) with the 'DT 880 32ohm' version, you will find the 32ohm version has significantly more bass - almost exactly equal with the HD650's bass on the graph.

 

Can a 32ohm version of a headphone really have that much more bass than a 250ohm version?

 

Or is it just standard variance in the tests?

post #33 of 52

It could be a standard variance in the test but I suspect its more likely a manufacturing variance between the two 880s. That said, a 2 db difference in bass response is very minimal.

post #34 of 52
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by devhen View Post

It could be a standard variance in the test but I suspect its more likely a manufacturing variance between the two 880s. That said, a 2 db difference in bass response is very minimal.

 

Manufacturing variance as in there would even be a standard degree of variance between two seemingly identical DT880's of any ohm's (even of two DT880's with the same ohm's), or that there is a manufacturing difference between DT880 250ohm's and DT880 32ohm's?

 

And I'm not sure about 2dB being a small difference - according to the graphs, the K701 only has about 1.5dB less than the DT880 in terms of mid-bass response, but on the ears, when I owned both at once, I remember there being a fairly substantial difference, with the K701 sounding clearly less bassy.


Edited by bassophile - 2/7/13 at 9:49am
post #35 of 52
Quote:
Originally Posted by bassophile View Post

 

Manufacturing variance as in there would even be a standard degree of variance between two seemingly identical DT880's of any ohm's, or that there is a manufacturing difference between DT880 250ohm's and DT880 32ohm's?

 

Yes, there would be a standard degree of variance between otherwise identical 880s of the same or difference impedance. Manufacturing variances exist for all headphones. That's why driver matching is so important. The Beyerdynamics in particular are known to sometimes have wide variances though the 880s tend to be some of the more consistent models.


Quote:
Originally Posted by bassophile View Post

 

And I'm not sure about 2dB being a small difference - according to the graphs, the K701 only has about 1.5dB less than the DT880 in terms of mid-bass response, but on the ears, when I owned both at once, I remember there being a fairly substantial difference, with the K701 sounding clearly less bassy.

 

I think you're onto something here. Reading reviews and impressions from others and viewing measurements will never tell you exactly how a headphone will sound to you. You simply expected the 650 to sound differently than it turned out to.

post #36 of 52

Out of curiosity, what are you amping the 650s with?

post #37 of 52
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by devhen View Post

Out of curiosity, what are you amping the 650s with?

 

I'm amping with the internal amp of the Benchmark DAC1. That thing is meant to be extremely powerful, and when I emailed Benchmark, they said it'd be capable of driving the HE-6.

 

Having said that, the character of the amp and DAC is said to be very lean and clinical, so I might not be getting the maximum bass response from the HD650 even though they are being driven sufficiently. But then the amp should also be making the DT880 sound relatively bass lean as well, yet as I've said they're not too far off the HD650 at all in bass response.

post #38 of 52

Product variance is always a factor here, and Beyer isn't the most stringent company with its control. Looking at a headroom graph of four DT880s:

 

 

We can't dismiss pad condition as factor either for sonics.

post #39 of 52
Quote:
Originally Posted by devhen View Post

@bassophile, I very much doubt there's anything wrong with your 650s. I think you're making a mistake when you assume that you know exactly how a headphone will sound based on things you've read.

 

Indeed. People might dismiss graphs, but in my experience a graph often tells me far more than reading largely contradictory subjective comments.

post #40 of 52

The FR graphs are never even remotely accurate. You can always find completely different ones for the same headphones. 

post #41 of 52

Wow, it is easy to snap in drivers on the Senn HD600/650. May have to grab a 600 and get 650 drivers. Anyone know how much 2 650 drivers would be?

post #42 of 52
Quote:
Originally Posted by Satellite_6 View Post

The FR graphs are never even remotely accurate. You can always find completely different ones for the same headphones. 


Huh? That is to do with the rig tolerance for positioning. Never mind the fact that two headphones of the same make can sound different.

post #43 of 52
Quote:
Originally Posted by Satellite_6 View Post

The FR graphs are never even remotely accurate. You can always find completely different ones for the same headphones. 

 

Hmm. A little like subjective comments, no?

 

In any case you won't find completely different graphs unless the measurer is incompetent. You will always find variations.  

post #44 of 52
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by wolfetan44 View Post

Wow, it is easy to snap in drivers on the Senn HD600/650. May have to grab a 600 and get 650 drivers. Anyone know how much 2 650 drivers would be?

 

I am in no way suggesting you do this (because it is amoral not to mention illegal), but what I think/thought had been done to me was that someone bought an HD600 and an HD650, then swapped the drivers, then returned the HD650 immediately after, thus getting his money back for the HD650, whilst keeping the HD600 which would now have HD650 drivers in it. Then I would have bought the HD650 he returned with HD600 drivers in it.

 

In the UK it is now unwise to do this, because the HD600 actually costs more (off Amazon anyway) new than the HD650 costs new.

 

Anyway you definitely wouldn't buy HD600 and then buy HD650 drivers, because, obviously you are paying both for a headphone and the drivers of another headphone (which will not be cheap). After the swap, what are you going to do with the HD600 drivers?


Edited by bassophile - 2/8/13 at 2:14am
post #45 of 52
Quote:
Originally Posted by wolfetan44 View Post

Wow, it is easy to snap in drivers on the Senn HD600/650. May have to grab a 600 and get 650 drivers. Anyone know how much 2 650 drivers would be?

 

You can get in touch with Sennheiser and ask but they're not cheap. They're obviously the most expensive part of the headphones. I've heard from Zombie_X what the prices were but I can't remember now. My guess is you would pay about $60/each or more.

 

I'm curious as to why you would want to do this though. A HD600 + HD650 drivers would cost more than just getting an HD650 and you probably wouldn't get matched drivers either.

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