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LCD-2 vs. T1 vs. Signature Pro - Page 2

post #16 of 39

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sorrodje View Post

 


I would have written same things about my sig pro .. funny ! biggrin.gif

 

I really should try these LCD2 :)

post #17 of 39
Quote:
Originally Posted by Danz03 View Post

 

 

Just to add:

 

 

http://www.innerfidelity.com/images/UltrasoneSignaturePro.pdf

http://www.innerfidelity.com/images/AudezeLCD2sn53211704circa2012.pdf (the latest version)

 

By the way, the OP can see that the bass is for sure better on LCD-2 rev2 over Signature pro (see FR, 30Hz square and %THD+noise sections).

post #18 of 39

Oh , headroom measurements are a bit odd.

 

but I didn't speak about measurements . just about my feeling when I listen to my Music with my Sig pro :)

post #19 of 39

@OP,

 

You might also wanna consider HE500. It is very balanced in all sonic aspects, and will suit your musical taste very well.

post #20 of 39

Yeah, for bass response, nothing can be flatter than LCD-2 or 3. wink.gif

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by RustA View Post

 

Just to add:

 

 

http://www.innerfidelity.com/images/UltrasoneSignaturePro.pdf

http://www.innerfidelity.com/images/AudezeLCD2sn53211704circa2012.pdf (the latest version)

 

By the way, the OP can see that the bass is for sure better on LCD-2 rev2 over Signature pro (see FR, 30Hz square and %THD+noise sections).

post #21 of 39

While I haven't heard the Signature Pro yet (hope to audition it later this week) based on those charts there are 2 things that might make it appear to have more bass than the LCD2 -

 

1. We generally adjust volume by the upper mids and treble level, not the bass level. As the Pros look down 5db from 400hz to 1khz and go on a few more extreme dips than the LCD-2s, it is likely that when listening at what seems "normal" levels - the bass of the pros will be a lot louder.

 

2. Yes, the LCD-2 manages flat bass down below 20hz, and the Pro don't, but there are a couple of reasons this is not a huge deal:

a. Outside of electronic music, very little utilises the frequency range between 20-40hz. Even with electronic music it is more of a special effect (rumble) than anything "musical". I don't think this is 100% accurate, but gives a good idea of where "music" really is in the frequency range: http://www.independentrecording.net/irn/resources/freqchart/main_display.htm

b. Even with music that uses a lot of very low sub bass, you will still hear it perfectly clearly at -5db. While the bass starts decreasing on the Pros at 40hz, the human ear has trouble discern a difference less than 3db anyway, so it is really just the range between 20-30hz that has lost anything - which is pretty much just a low rumble that gives foundation to bass notes, the meat and bones of which reside much higher up the frequency range.

post #22 of 39
Quote:
Originally Posted by EddieE View Post

While I haven't heard the Signature Pro yet (hope to audition it later this week) based on those charts there are 2 things that might make it appear to have more bass than the LCD2 -

 

1. We generally adjust volume by the upper mids and treble level, not the bass level. As the Pros look down 5db from 400hz to 1khz and go on a few more extreme dips than the LCD-2s, it is likely that when listening at what seems "normal" levels - the bass of the pros will be a lot louder.

 

2. Yes, the LCD-2 manages flat bass down below 20hz, and the Pro don't, but there are a couple of reasons this is not a huge deal:

a. Outside of electronic music, very little utilises the frequency range between 20-40hz. Even with electronic music it is more of a special effect (rumble) than anything "musical". I don't think this is 100% accurate, but gives a good idea of where "music" really is in the frequency range: http://www.independentrecording.net/irn/resources/freqchart/main_display.htm

b. Even with music that uses a lot of very low sub bass, you will still hear it perfectly clearly at -5db. While the bass starts decreasing on the Pros at 40hz, the human ear has trouble discern a difference less than 3db anyway, so it is really just the range between 20-30hz that has lost anything - which is pretty much just a low rumble that gives foundation to bass notes, the meat and bones of which reside much higher up the frequency range.

 

Have you had a look at the 30hz square wave and %THD+noise graphs (bellow 100hz)? You will find the answer why the bass of LCD-2 rev2 is more tight and clean than of Signature Pro there...

post #23 of 39
Quote:
Originally Posted by RustA View Post

 

Have you had a look at the 30hz square wave and %THD+noise graphs (bellow 100hz)? You will find the answer why the bass of LCD-2 rev2 is more tight and clean than of Signature Pro there...

Yes, but I don't believe anyone was arguing to the contrary?... confused.gif 

EddiE was merely bringing up the point about bass compensation, and why you might want slightly more bass than a 'ruler-flat' response. That same line of thought is what goes into the graphs over here (LCD-2 measurements for reference).

post #24 of 39
Quote:
Originally Posted by RustA View Post

 

Have you had a look at the 30hz square wave and %THD+noise graphs (bellow 100hz)? You will find the answer why the bass of LCD-2 rev2 is more tight and clean than of Signature Pro there...

 

I wasn't arguing that LCD-2's bass wouldn't be cleaner from the looks of the %THD graphs (although we are less able to hear distortion in the low freqecnies), and a bit tighter too from the sw response, although I would say that the Pro still looks to have a decent level of control on the bass. 

 

I wasn't looking to, and have no interest in, a "this headphone vs this headphone" debate, I was merely pointing out why the Pro would sound bassier than the LCD-2 (based on the measurements I can see).


Edited by EddieE - 2/4/13 at 10:37am
post #25 of 39

But a lot of headphones sound bassier than the LCD-2, doesn't mean it's a good thing, for instant, Dr Dre Beats or the Sony XB series.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by EddieE View Post

I wasn't looking to, and have no interest in, a "this headphone vs this headphone" debate, I was merely pointing out why the Pro would sound bassier than the LCD-2 (based on the measurements I can see).

post #26 of 39
Quote:
Originally Posted by Danz03 View Post

But a lot of headphones sound bassier than the LCD-2, doesn't mean it's a good thing, for instant, Dr Dre Beats or the Sony XB series.

 

 

Again, I am not trying to engage in an X headphone vs Y headphone discussion.

 

I was just saying that the roll down from flat to -5db between 40 and 20hz that the Pro has would not affect most music, and it would sound bassier due to the lower average level of the mids/higher frequencies.

 

"Better" or "worse" isn't something I'm discussing here, especially since I've only heard one of these sets, and am talking strictly within the bounds of this discussion and these measurements.

 

Someone has said they found the LCD-2s shy of bass for their tastes and I was explaining why that probably was.

 

There is no real right and wrong as despite the fact that we can objectively measure sound, we subjectively experience it. If someone has their reference point for bass volume set above neutral, neutral cans will sound bass light. The brain is the ultimate bottleneck in any hifi system.

post #27 of 39
Quote:
Originally Posted by Danz03 
But a lot of headphones sound bassier than the LCD-2, doesn't mean it's a good thing, for instant, Dr Dre Beats or the Sony XB series.

That's missing the point. The idea is that 'dead-on neutral' levels of bass aren't necessarily ideal when listening to headphones, because humans can't pick up those sub frequencies as easily without the physical rumble you get from a full sub-woofer. Thus the need for bass compensation in headphones to be able to notice lower frequencies at a roughly comparable degree as with loudspeakers.

Whether or not this interpretation of 'flat' is 'accurate'/'correct', is another story however.
post #28 of 39
Thread Starter 
Hmmmm it seems as though its between the signature pro and lcd-2. Ugh this is so difficult to decide without being able to listen to them. I'm really stuck here. Hmmm would I be losing anything really by picking one over the other? The seem very close to each other. Is the lcd-2 soundstage really that small? I figured for an open headphone its soundstage should be much bigger than the signature pro due to them being closed. Also which of the 2 would pair better with the Asgard + Bifrost combo?
post #29 of 39
Quote:
Originally Posted by oblique63 View Post


That's missing the point. The idea is that 'dead-on neutral' levels of bass aren't necessarily ideal when listening to headphones, because humans can't pick up those sub frequencies as easily without the physical rumble you get from a full sub-woofer. Thus the need for bass compensation in headphones to be able to notice lower frequencies at a roughly comparable degree as with loudspeakers.

Whether or not this interpretation of 'flat' is 'accurate'/'correct', is another story however.

 

Don't know what is ideal but flat FR in bass region is what people consider "neutral" in terms of headphones. If you look at uncompensated vs compensated graphs, for example from inner fidelity, you will find that bass region is not compensated at all. You can read up something on this topic on innerfidelity's blog I believe.

post #30 of 39
Quote:
Originally Posted by EddieE View Post

 

Again, I am not trying to engage in an X headphone vs Y headphone discussion.

 

I was just saying that the roll down from flat to -5db between 40 and 20hz that the Pro has would not affect most music, and it would sound bassier due to the lower average level of the mids/higher frequencies.

 

"Better" or "worse" isn't something I'm discussing here, especially since I've only heard one of these sets, and am talking strictly within the bounds of this discussion and these measurements.

 

Someone has said they found the LCD-2s shy of bass for their tastes and I was explaining why that probably was.

 

There is no real right and wrong as despite the fact that we can objectively measure sound, we subjectively experience it. If someone has their reference point for bass volume set above neutral, neutral cans will sound bass light. The brain is the ultimate bottleneck in any hifi system.

+1

Quote:
Originally Posted by AgainstTheGrain View Post

Hmmmm it seems as though its between the signature pro and lcd-2. Ugh this is so difficult to decide without being able to listen to them. I'm really stuck here. Hmmm would I be losing anything really by picking one over the other? The seem very close to each other. Is the lcd-2 soundstage really that small? I figured for an open headphone its soundstage should be much bigger than the signature pro due to them being closed. Also which of the 2 would pair better with the Asgard + Bifrost combo?

Please try DT990 and signature DJ. I believe with conviction that you will settle on one of these far more happily that any of the others you list. We all have different tastes, set ups, and requirements. Although neither of my suggestions are cheap, in general buying big $ headphones doesnt by any stretch mean it will be the best (for you). There are too many variables for one headphone to do it all IMO. BUT based on your posts i strongly believe you must A/B the SIg DJ and DT990, then A/B the winner against your LCD2 or anything else your tempted by. These threads always end up very long, until the OP actually goes out n tries all these cans. The more cans that get listed, the more opinions are thrown in,  the longer the thread. THis isnt a bad thing at all! Just common place by now.

 

If you dont live near any shops etc etc, order online with a return policy, and dont abuse it.

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