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Speaker amps for headphones - Page 157

post #2341 of 3116
Take 8 ohm value and devide by 6.5. That will be aprox value at 50 ohms.
Al
post #2342 of 3116
Quote:
Originally Posted by ALRAINBOW View Post

Take 8 ohm value and devide by 6.5. That will be aprox value at 50 ohms.

Al

 



Thanks, I wasn't even sure if speaker amps outputs any watt at that high ohm. Seems like the wpc ratio doesn't look linear.
post #2343 of 3116
It is for the most part. It generally doubles from 16 to 8 and from 8 to 4
Sometimes it's a little less as you go up in watts.

Al
post #2344 of 3116
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris J View Post
 
[snip]
 
However I do agree, it is rather masochistic to roll Op Amps and try to hear a difference. Or realize you don't really hear a difference.

 

I've rolled a lot of op-amps through my iBasso PB2 and can easily hear remarkable differences - but not in THD+N.  :D

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zoom25 View Post
 

Got recommend to post in here by Gary about speaker amp comparisons. I recently picked up a Marantz PM6004 to compare to my existing Emotiva Mini-x-a-100 with respect to LCD-3. Initial impressions - the PM6004 killed the Emotiva. I'm finding my CD5004/PM6004 combo more fun to listen than even the BHA-1/BDA-2 combo. More serious impressions to come later. Just thought of posting two lines in the unlikely event that someone was also considering a Marantz to drive headphones off the tap.

 

 

Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)

 

 

I'm really looking forward to your follow-up posts regarding the PM6004.

 

I've been sitting on the fence regarding the purchase of a Marantz PM8004 ($999) as an amp for the LCD-2, ever since reading this very compelling review, over a year ago:  http://www.avguide.com/review/marantz-pm8004-integrated-amplifier-tas-220  

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zoom25 View Post
 

I might still consider the PM6005 later on if I like the PM6004 enough and if the digital inputs are half decent. Another option is PM8004 but with resistors for sure. I had the LCD-2 and HE-500 with Emotiva. I loved those two pairings on the Emotiva. 

 

I sold my Emotiva mini-X a-100 because I found its treble to be harsh, even with the LCD-2's shelved highs (my tastes, my ears).

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gary in MD View Post
 

No need to limit yourself to 50 wpc or less for the LCD-3s.  They are designed to handle the equivalent of ~80wpc (8 ohms) without any risk of damage -- except to your eardrums as they put out 120dBs at that power level.  I'm running straight out of a 110 wpc amp with no issues.

 

In the absence of hiss (as with the MG3), I, too, would feel no need to use resistors with the LCD-2 or LCD-3 attached directly to the speaker terminals of a PM8004 (rated at 75Wpc into 8 Ohms).

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris J View Post

Basically you think using 100 Watt @ 8 Ohm amps for headphones is just DUMB!

 

Wait.  Are you saying that Armegis thinks it's dumb, while you do not, or are you agreeing with Armaegis?    (For the record, I respect you both, greatly, so I'm very curious about this...)

 

Thanks,

 

Mike

post #2345 of 3116
Hello. I have the amp and da from iBasso. Can you describe what chip A d how it sounds.
I have left it stock. And there is A another chip too I cannot think of the name rt now
Al
post #2346 of 3116
Quote:
Originally Posted by zilch0md View Post
 

 

Wait.  Are you saying that Armegis thinks it's dumb, while you do not, or are you agreeing with Armaegis?    (For the record, I respect you both, greatly, so I'm very curious about this...)

 

Well to be fair, I don't think that using megawatt speaker amps with headphones is dumb specifically. Amps with excessive gain and/or high noise floors (for headphones) on the other hand...

post #2347 of 3116
^ Hmm, taking no particular side on this issue, as it was just an experiment...

Recently I soldered together an XLR socket to banana plugs adapter for use with my Decware Taboo II (6W/8R) amp. Though it has a 1/4" hp jack, its designer felt how he implemented the jack was a mistake, recommended use of the speaker terminals instead and eventually introduced an updated model with balanced hp outs.

The results were indeed different and - after a little brain adjustment - worthwhile.

I have two other speaker amps in the house. One is a plinius SA-50 and the other an SA250 drives our speaker rig. Both are conservatively rated at 50 and 250W (8R) respectively, and have selectable class A or AB. I tried the little one first and I must say it had a seductive effortlessness in spades, together with a very smooth midrange.

I was slightly perplexed though to notice a lack of bass impact or 'attack' compared to the Taboo. Curious, I tried the big plinius.

Wow! I don't believe I have ever heard the LCD2 sound so good. What stood out most was exceptional separation. It was effortless to follow different instruments and voices, and I heard new detail in several tracks I know very well.

In this case there were no noise problems, and I didn't use a resistor network. Naturally, I applied volume carefuly. Driven direct from an Eastern Electric MiniMax DAC I got to just under 9 o'clock for comfortably loud listening.

There were one or two other things that seemed "wow" at the time, such as precise, stable sound-stage. Having listened again, more analytically, I think this is mostly the effect of separation and detail.

As I say, not something I intend to repeat. The LCD2 sounds mighty fine in my present home office rig. Plinius amps are not compact, and the SA250 stays where it is.

Are speaker amps 'better' for headphones, or especially orthodynamic phones confused.gif Even after this, I have absolutely no clue! I think what I heard was mostly the effect of an (IMHO, TME etc) excellent amp (Taboo) trounced by an even better amp. Given the price difference, this is perhaps not surprising.
post #2348 of 3116
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris J View Post


Have you tried Planet Of Sound?
They don't have a massive selection of headphone amps but they usually have one or three on display.
Also try the Headphone Shop on Yonge St.

Haven't tried Planet of Sound. Have been in contact with Headfone shop for awhile now. The only thing I'm interested over there are the Burson, Fostex and Stax stuff (and HE-6 as well).

post #2349 of 3116
Quote:
Originally Posted by Canadian411 View Post

I have to ask this dummy question so please no harsh comments please. smily_headphones1.gif

I am considering buying HE6 back with intent to use on the speaker amps, saw very good reviews for Marantz PM6004 and Emotiva mini-x-a100.
My question is, when I look at the spec it outputs about 60-80 wpc at 4ohm or 45-50wpc at 8ohm.

How do you know what WPC produces at 50 ohm that HE6 requires ? and where do you buy the speaker tap cables for HE6 ?

Thanks in advance,
D.

 

Having both amps and have owned the HE-500 (close enough to HE-6) for over a year, I'd strongly recommend the Marantz over the Emotiva. Unless you like your treble kinky. I got my cable adapter from Headphone Lounge.

post #2350 of 3116
Quote:
Originally Posted by zilch0md View Post
 

I'm really looking forward to your follow-up posts regarding the PM6004.

 

I've been sitting on the fence regarding the purchase of a Marantz PM8004 ($999) as an amp for the LCD-2, ever since reading this very compelling review, over a year ago:  http://www.avguide.com/review/marantz-pm8004-integrated-amplifier-tas-220  

 

I sold my Emotiva mini-X a-100 because I found its treble to be harsh, even with the LCD-2's shelved highs (my tastes, my ears).

 

Thanks,

 

Mike

Hi Mike,

 

I remember our conversations over the months regarding the Marantz. When I picked up the Marantz, I remember thinking to myself of someone that would especially be interested :)

 

I want to first get used to the Marantz and use it exclusively for a few weeks and then bring in the Emotiva back again for a comparison. Considering how long you've been waiting, a few more weeks isn't much. I want to make sure I get it right in my review. Don't want to prematurely recommend something. 

post #2351 of 3116
Quote:
Originally Posted by ALRAINBOW View Post

Hello. I have the amp and da from iBasso. Can you describe what chip A d how it sounds.
I have left it stock. And there is A another chip too I cannot think of the name rt now
Al

 

Hey Al,

 

Which iBasso amp do you have?  (I don't have any of their DACs.)

 

Mike

post #2352 of 3116
PB2

Al
post #2353 of 3116
Quote:
Originally Posted by Armaegis View Post
 

 

Well to be fair, I don't think that using megawatt speaker amps with headphones is dumb specifically. Amps with excessive gain and/or high noise floors (for headphones) on the other hand...

 

I agree, on both points - especially the second, having learned the hard way with the TBI Audio MG3.  :D

post #2354 of 3116
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zoom25 View Post
 

Hi Mike,

 

I remember our conversations over the months regarding the Marantz. When I picked up the Marantz, I remember thinking to myself of someone that would especially be interested :)

 

I want to first get used to the Marantz and use it exclusively for a few weeks and then bring in the Emotiva back again for a comparison. Considering how long you've been waiting, a few more weeks isn't much. I want to make sure I get it right in my review. Don't want to prematurely recommend something. 

 

Thanks!  I appreciate your caution.  :D

post #2355 of 3116

Al,

 

First, I'd recommend you peruse the PB2 thread for other recommendations, but here are some highlights of my experience rolling op-amps in that amp...

 

The stock PB2 setup offers a lot of power, but it's not very resolving - even with the LCD-2, which itself isn't known for its resolution.

 

LME49990 (4x singles) in the input voltage gain stage with 4x dummy buffers is my favorite combination thus far.  

 

This combination is very transparent and highly resolving, more neutral, but not thin or dry - it just sounds natural.  Unfortunately, the lack of op-amps in the buffer stage (where current gain occurs) leaves this combination somewhat weak, reducing dynamics and bass control in the LCD-2, but I compensate that (somewhat) by running the PB2 with an external, regulated-to-16V LiPo battery pack, instead of using the 12.6V, internal LiPo battery -and- by using balanced cables to my LCD-2, which gives you 2x the power that you'd have with the PB2's TRS jack.

 

Adding additional LME49990s as buffers (instead of using dummy buffers), increases the power output, but muddies things a bit - this can be heard even with the LCD-2, but stands out more readily still with better resolving phones like the Beyer T1 or AKG K550.

 

Close-up I took of an LME49990 on a DIP8 adapter - to get the height needed (as seen in the 2nd photo):  

 

PB2 with 8x LME49990 (I had to elevate the buffer row because the PCBs are too large to set them at the same height as the I/V row - next to the Gain jumpers.)

 

 

 

A better op-amp for use as a buffer with the LME49990 still in the input voltage gain stage, is the HA5002 (x4).  These are really clean sounding, add lots of power, but still not as clean as running the LME49990s with dummy buffers.

 

The only other combination that I've enjoyed a lot is OPA1612 (x2) in the input voltage gain stage and HA5002 as buffers.  The OPA1612 is more analytical and ultra-detailed than the LME49990, so it works better with the LCD-2 than with phones like the T1 or K550.

 

The very highest detail and transparency I've heard in the PB2 was had with this combination (but I don't like it overall - it's too analytical and cool):

 

OPA1612 (x2) in I/V with dummy buffers:

IMG_8233_iBasso_PB2_with_OPA1612s_and_Dummy_Buffers-1067x800.jpg

 

I'd better stop there - way off topic.  For endless opinions on rolling op-amps, see this thread:  http://www.head-fi.org/t/432749/the-opamp-thread

 

Mike


Edited by zilch0md - 1/28/14 at 4:57pm
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