Head-Fi.org › Forums › Summit-Fi (High-End Audio) › High-end Audio Forum › Speaker amps for headphones
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

Speaker amps for headphones - Page 152

post #2266 of 2717

I think a 250W/4 ohm module would be a more suitable match:
http://www.icepower.bang-olufsen.com/en/solutions/speaker/ASX_SERIES

post #2267 of 2717
Here is the the test I did. Three amps with same dac and he6 headphones. The amps were the woo WA6. All upgrades

The krell KAV400XI. and the aragon BB.

THe same resisters were used for the two speaker amps but not the woo amp.

Both quite and loud types of music used. The end result. Was it was almost impossible to define one amp from another.

All were sweet and plenty of base. Maybe the two ten sister amps had a little more kick to the bass. Even the tonal qualities were very close. Some one on here scrolled me on a feature the krell has where you can bypass the preamp .

I did this test again. Same results to close to call. I am not saying they sounded the same . As I switched back and forth there was something changing but what it was I was not able to determine witch amp wa being used. . If buying a used amp , my advise is the krell it has many inputs and plenty of power for speakers too. Used for under 2k shipped.

Al
post #2268 of 2717
Quote:
Originally Posted by Anda View Post
 

I think a 250W/4 ohm module would be a more suitable match:
http://www.icepower.bang-olufsen.com/en/solutions/speaker/ASX_SERIES


Is there any place to actually buy a finished amp that uses these modules, for those who aren't DIY'ers?

post #2269 of 2717
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gary in MD View Post
 


Is there any place to actually buy a finished amp that uses these modules, for those who aren't DIY'ers?

Not sure on how these B&O sound, but if you like class D and powaaaaaaa you can actually build your own Ncores monoblock for around 1k. The project is like Lego, plug wire here and there - only soldering is to solder RCA/XLR socket and IEC - the main board/psu are already pre-assembled. Despite the feeble look, they are actually 400W @ 4 Ohm

 


Edited by khaine1711 - 1/24/14 at 9:27pm
post #2270 of 2717
Quote:
Originally Posted by khaine1711 View Post
 

Not sure on how these B&O sound, but if you like class D and powaaaaaaa you can actually build your own Ncores monoblock for around 1k. The project is like Lego, plug wire here and there - only soldering is to solder RCA/XLR socket and IEC - the main board/psu are already pre-assembled. Despite the feeble look, they are actually 400W @ 4 Ohm

 

Yeah, there you had to go and ruin it for me by using the "s" word twice in the same sentence.  I don't do that, so I'd have to have one of you folks do it, or have my brother-in-law the EE do it.  Unfortunately he "takes his time" with everything he does, and it would be decades before he actually got around to doing this job. 

 

The good news is that I don't need an amp.  It really comes down to just being curious about the technology and how it sounds, so I figured I'd share the info about the Red Dragon amps with you folks and see if anybody had ever heard them.  But I'm glad to see that there are other similar options out there that might work better for headphones.

post #2271 of 2717
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gary in MD View Post
 

Yeah, there you had to go and ruin it for me by using the "s" word twice in the same sentence.  I don't do that, so I'd have to have one of you folks do it, or have my brother-in-law the EE do it.  Unfortunately he "takes his time" with everything he does, and it would be decades before he actually got around to doing this job. 

 

The good news is that I don't need an amp.  It really comes down to just being curious about the technology and how it sounds, so I figured I'd share the info about the Red Dragon amps with you folks and see if anybody had ever heard them.  But I'm glad to see that there are other similar options out there that might work better for headphones.

If you are that allergic to soldering you can just use clips/electrical tape :rolleyes:. Seriously though, soldering RCA/XLR/IEC sockets takes like 10 minutes top, and anyone can do it - it's an easy job - maybe just ask your nearest electrical repair shop =).

 

Anyway I think someone had tried the Ncores with the He-6 - it's buried somewhere in the He6 thread

post #2272 of 2717
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gary in MD View Post
 

MMMMM POWER!!!!  ME LIKE POWER!!!!  Remember I'm already using an amp that has 110 wpc into 8 ohms...

 

Semi-seriously though, yeah, there's lots of extra power there, but we've now got the Robinette Box to tame the power and banish the noise.... Right?

 

L-pads have been around for decades now.

 

There's still no need for all the extra power, especially if it means all you're doing is amplifying noise then trimming it back down with resistors. Nevermind that it's all waste heat. Nevermind that you're most likely operating far away from the amplifier's ideal/optimal range.

 

I know it's practically heresay, but c'mon guys pick something with a suitable range for headphone usage instead of slapping a bandaid solution on something ill suited for the task. Or if you really insist on the megawatt amps then use those transformers/autoformers and be done with it (like the McIntosh headphone amp coming out)

post #2273 of 2717
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gary in MD View Post
 

Yeah, there you had to go and ruin it for me by using the "s" word twice in the same sentence.  I don't do that, so I'd have to have one of you folks do it, or have my brother-in-law the EE do it.  Unfortunately he "takes his time" with everything he does, and it would be decades before he actually got around to doing this job.

 

 

Those Hypex Ncore's are reportedly the best new thing since sliced bread in the class D world. If you google around, you can find builders who'll make them for you even though they're supposed to be only for DIY use.

post #2274 of 2717
Quote:
Originally Posted by Armaegis View Post
 

 

L-pads have been around for decades now.

 

There's still no need for all the extra power, especially if it means all you're doing is amplifying noise then trimming it back down with resistors. Nevermind that it's all waste heat. Nevermind that you're most likely operating far away from the amplifier's ideal/optimal range.

 

I know it's practically heresay, but c'mon guys pick something with a suitable range for headphone usage instead of slapping a bandaid solution on something ill suited for the task. Or if you really insist on the megawatt amps then use those transformers/autoformers and be done with it (like the McIntosh headphone amp coming out)


I guess I needed to put smiley faces in my post to indicate that I wasn't really serious about wanting that much power to run headphones.  But if an amp is well designed, sounds good, and is low cost, should we be scared off by the excess power, particularly if it can be attenuated with little loss of fidelity? 

 

Would one of these ICE amps work better than a lower-power amp of a different design?  Maybe, maybe not.  It depends on the design of the amps, and of the headphones... right? 

 

Again, I'm not recommending any of these amps, since I've never heard them.  I'm simply curious as to how the latest ICE technology sounds compared to other approaches.

post #2275 of 2717
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gary in MD View Post

I'm simply curious as to how the latest ICE technology sounds compared to other approaches.

+1 :cool: 

post #2276 of 2717
Gary. Class D. Amps have a perticular sound to them. They are not a wire with a gain. I wouldn't use those for headphones unless you know you like that kind of house sound.

Class A/B. Is you best choice. Or class A. Tube. A class A ss amp is fine too but causes excess heat all the time. . I would google the sound reg class D before buying one.

Also heahones tend to over emphasize the sounds we here in our chain. Just some food for thought for you .
And please do not take offense to my statement as there are some very expensive class D amps in use . Genesis has a couple driving there speakers but the low end not a mid or tweeter.
Al
Edited by ALRAINBOW - 1/25/14 at 4:39am
post #2277 of 2717

Bel Canto is a pretty good and pretty widely available maker of class D amps.  should be pretty easy to find a shop to hear them.  here is a review where the reviewer compares class D sound to tube.  not real useful but something  http://www.positive-feedback.com/Issue55/c5i.htm.  I have heard some pretty expensive class d amps which i liked, but not as well as i like other approaches.  i like more weight to the sound. they were very clean and quiet 

post #2278 of 2717
The amps you heard were with speakers or headphones ??
post #2279 of 2717

I haven't met a Class D amp i have liked...yet. The Ncore amps are the only ones that pique my interest, but is still way overkill for even the HE-6 IMO.

 

Don't let that stop you guys though, if it sounds good then who cares what any of us say. :tongue: 

post #2280 of 2717

Having learned, with some math tutelage from Armaegis, that the resistor network built by Jan Plummer for my TBI Millenia MG3 reduces the power output by 15.8 dB (from 5.1W into 50 Ohms to 133mW into 50 Ohms), I no longer use the attenuated, Class BD MG3 with my LCD-2, due to the loss of dynamics and bass control had with only 133mW.  Of course, the real reason for using a resistor network with the MG3 is to silence the hiss inherent to its excessive gain - a hiss that can be easily heard with transducers that are far more sensitive than the typical 8-Ohm loudspeakers for which it was designed.  

 

But, as FlySweep later convinced me, that MG3 + 10/2 resistor network sounds freaking awesome with the HD600 that I purchased at his recommendation. He has since gone on to say that his more recently acquired HD650 are even better with the MG3 + resistor network. The good news is that the story ends well, after silencing the MG3's hiss, by using headphones that don't need more than 133mW into 50 Ohms (or 23.4mW into 300 Ohms).  I'm also blown away by how wonderful the attenuated MG3 sounds with my HD800 (at least with recordings that don't have a lot of bass - a weakness of the HD800 that the relatively neutral MG3 can't compensate).  Overall, the HD600 is a much better match to the MG3 + resistor network (as is, the HD650, per FlySweep, who started out with the HD800 on his attenuated MG3).

 

So why should anyone buy an over-powered speaker amp for use with headphones - especially if you have to attenuate the output?  Because the amp itself might bring something to the table that you're not able to get from any other amp you've heard.

 

Seriously, it's surely not the 110W into 8 Ohms that Gary is exploiting when he listens to his Odyssey Audio Cyclops Extreme - fed directly into his LCD-3.  He's using a tiny fraction of that power.  No... He must just be attracted to those same qualities that make the amp so popular with HiFi enthusiasts - the amp's sound!

 

Mike


Edited by zilch0md - 1/25/14 at 9:08am
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
  Back to Forum: High-end Audio Forum
Head-Fi.org › Forums › Summit-Fi (High-End Audio) › High-end Audio Forum › Speaker amps for headphones